Clowning around
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@dkf said in Clowning around:
The to wifi was in place before I was born!
Yeah I remember that time ... there where s to wifi all around ... starting with the fact that Eniac wasn't portable.
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@Luhmann Everything is portable if you're determined enough.
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@blek
By that standard every network is portable too ... you just have to use a long enough cable
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@Luhmann said in Clowning around:
By that standard every network is portable too ... you just have to use a long enough cable
A bunch of years ago, I ended up correcting an exam question that asked the students to list problems with current internet protocols if used for interplanetary communication. (No, it was probably not the best question to ask, and no, it was not my idea to ask this question.)
Anyway, among the answers that I still remember were
- the distances make cable installation tricky
- planets moving around prevent cables from being used
- wifi won't work because there is no air in space
It was amusing and depressing at the same time.
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@cvi those are bad answers, but TBH I can't think of much of any good answers.
"latency would be horrid" -- nope, that also has to do with the infrastructure, not the protocol.
Basically, all of the same problems that they have currently. Address space would be one potential problem, I suppose.
Unless you're going some direction like "it'd be tough to get the Martians to accept a protocol that was invented here"...
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@anotherusername said in Clowning around:
@cvi those are bad answers, but TBH I can't think of much of any good answers.
To be fair, the question pretty much related to an article that the students were supposed to read during the course. One of the reasons that I kind-of remember did relate to latency and that stuff like TCP doesn't deal with very-high latency connections very well. Just the handshake would be very inappropriate if you have minutes-to-hours of latency and/or only short periods where communication is possible. Error handling has similar problems, where the original sender is responsible for retransmitting stuff (which, if you have multiple relays, each with relatively high latency, would be much better handled by the relays, rather than going all the way back to the source).
At least, that was the direction of the question. I don't remember the original phrasing, it did probably include a bit more details, but I also remember thinking that it was too open-ended. The article (IIRC) talked about some non-TCP things as well, that's just the example that I remember off-hand.
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@anotherusername said in Clowning around:
"latency would be horrid" -- nope, that also has to do with the infrastructure, not the protocol.
Depends which level of protocol you're talking about. You really wouldn't want to use TCP on interplanetary connections, and that in turn breaks just about any protocol that is built on top of it (e.g., HTTP, SSL, FTP, SMTP, IMAP, Telnet). UDP and ICMP can “work” better, but not really; you hit timeout problems anyway. You basically lose the entire stack above the level of raw IP; the system just isn't designed for very large latencies (on the order of an hour or more).
Some higher-level concepts can work (e.g., email and usenet) as they aren't built with an assumption that the other end can be reached nearly instantly. The web is probably a bust though; too much of it has built-in connection latency assumptions.
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@Luhmann said in Clowning around:
@blek
By that standard every network is portable too ... you just have to use a long enough cableEthernet (Lets say gigabit ethernet) over Cat5 specifies a maximum cable length of 100m. You'll also need switches/routers to extend it as far as you want
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@cark You want to make a space elevator out of Cat5 cable? Even with switches, that sounds a bit impractical.
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@anonymous234 There are a few dozen "real life superheroes" around, mostly starting around 1986 or so, some of whom have indeed made something along those lines:
http://reallifesuperheroes.com/
While not all of them are crimefighters or vigilantes in the classic mode of costumed heroes - many are just publicity seekers, some act as a kind of deliberate role model figure, and several are spokespeople for some marginalized cause (such as the 'Fauna Fighters', who act as mouthpieces for a radical animal liberation group in Australia).
And then there is Troy Hurtubise, who... trust me, you need to see this to believe it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EdOGdmy0mAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6eNK1O-RWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPS2l5fQ55A&list=PLF95A3C3A12261AC2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_jcs1NFCw
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@boomzilla said in Clowning around:
@abarker said in Clowning around:
@anonymous234 said in Clowning around:
I'm also surprised no one has ever tried to build a "real" Batsuit (i.e. bulletproof, actually usable for combat). There must be plenty of millionaire geeks who would love to own one just for the "cool" factor.
How do you know they haven't? Just because some built one just to have it doesn't mean it would be publicized or used.
Pffft. Pack of Johnny-come-latelies.
Troy. Troy. He's our man. If bears can't kill him, no-one can.
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@flabdablet To be fair, the Trojan suit is pretty close to what EOD techs use now, and if he can offer a significant improvements (that have been tested in laboratory and field conditions by someone other than Troy himself), or significantly lowered cost (or both), then it is something that the USDoD and CMoD should look at for those units who could benefit from it (mainly military police, guards at secure points, riot police, and the aforementioned EOD techs). I would say it would be worth a few hundred grand to do some testing on his alleged developments, if only as an adjunct to whatever the current iteration of Land Warrior is called - compared to most exoskeleton projects, that's cheap, and if it doesn't pan out it isn't a lot to lose.
Mind you, his crowdfunding attempts have been less than successful, and he's had to sell off older versions of his Grizzly suit to collectors for cash more than once, so money management doesn't seem to be a strong point of his; and he seems oddly reluctant to share any information about his developments to those who have expressed interest in them (in a way all too similar to the likes of Joe Newman and Guido Franch), so... maybe not.
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@ScholRLEA Perhaps he needs to focus on putting armour on grizzly bears and getting them to run checkpoints…
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@dkf said in Clowning around:
Some higher-level concepts can work (e.g., email and usenet) as they aren't built with an assumption that the other end can be reached nearly instantly.
The trouble with those is that they are also unreliable protocols; there is no guarantee that your email or usenet post will ever arrive at the destination. You can layer them on top of a reliable transport protocol, but those tend to have latency assumptions. What does NASA use? I'm going to guess it's not off-the-shelf, at least at the low level.
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@HardwareGeek Acknowledgements may still be helpful. Allowing for partial and negative acknowledgements may be desirable (I got emails 1-215 and 228-325, but 216-227 were irrecoverably corrupt). Parity information may be used to counter data corruption without the latency penalty of a re-transmit.
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@HardwareGeek said in Clowning around:
What does NASA use?
This doesn't appear to be what they currently use but what they have been working on:
Interestingly, that article talks about DTN as Delay Tolerant Networking but NASA seems to call it Disruption Tolerant Netrworking:
https://www.nasa.gov/content/disruption-tolerant-networking/#.WAeslxIrKJB
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@boomzilla said in Clowning around:
DTN
I was thinking of how to use DTN in an emergency situation. Haven't had time to develop or test deploy it though.
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@HardwareGeek said in Clowning around:
You can layer them on top of a reliable transport protocol, but those tend to have latency assumptions. What does NASA use?
Something with bags of forward error correction built in, I expect.
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@HardwareGeek said in Clowning around:
The trouble with those is that they are also unreliable protocols
You could structure something like a pubsub message queue on top, I guess. You'd only use that for really critical stuff though.
The key reason for using email and so on is that those are delay-tolerant. Yes, it might take some days for things to get through, but that's how the internet used to be back a few decades ago. Sometimes things really took a while to distribute…
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@dkf Shipping data on floppy (or, nowadays, SD card) in an envelope by USPS is a valid email or usenet link.
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@boomzilla "[the internet] was designed to be a durable, scalable, decentralized information delivery system, so in the event of a nuclear attack, American military leaders would still have access to pornography."
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@dkf said in Clowning around:
that's how the internet used to be back a few decades ago. Sometimes things really took a while to distribute…
Indeed; however, sometimes "a while" was infinite. I'm pretty sure my email about my uni senior project still hasn't arrived at MOSIS.
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I'm not profiling you because of your makeup.
I'm profiling you because you're hiding in the bushes watching a kid.
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Great, he made a suit that can fall down.
Now shoot it in the shoulder, because a downed man in a suit gives a bear plenty of time to get creative.
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@cvi said in Clowning around:
- wifi won't work because there is no air in space
The proper way to express this concept is: In Space, Nobody Can Hear You Wi-Fi!
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@flabdablet said in Clowning around:
NNTP ftw!
Yes, but not between Earth and Mars. The actual protocols need to be different due to the extra latency (TCP is impossible, UDP is nearly so) but the higher-level applications will be similar.
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@dkf said in Clowning around:
the higher-level applications will be similar
Please download the Internet and leave the printout on my desk.
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@flabdablet said in Clowning around:
Please download the Internet and leave the printout on my wooden desk.
Then take a picture and post it here
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@PJH Was she after his lucky charms?
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Whew...
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What an unexpected thing to happen.
And by unexpected, I mean completely expected!
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@anonymous234 said in Clowning around:
http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/25/hammer-wielding-teenager-dressed-as-killer-clown-stabbed-by-terrified-friend-14-6214189/
FTFA:
Officers in Germany have also warned that anyone who dresses up as a killer clown to scare people may face up for a year in prison.
A year. For dressing up and scaring people.
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@PJH I imagine it depends on what they do, but I could see it legitimately being assault, assuming they do more than just dress up.
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