Game Idea Review



  • @abarker said in Game Categories:

    I'd like to propose that anyone running their first game runs the setup by either an experienced GM or a dedicated Club-Deder to get help identifying the correct categorization and to check for a good balance. This rule would also kick in if an experienced GM is waffling about the categorization of their game.

    This is intended to be a thread for the purpose listed above.

    Up-and-coming GMs can ask for help with balance and/or categorization. The game setup can be listed here, and anyone can chime in with their thoughts; or for game setups that may need to be kept secret, someone can ask for help, and an experienced player can coordinate with them to discuss the setup via PM.

    Game theory for crazy configurations is also allowed.

    To start this off, I'd like to know how can we balance a game where all Town are a mix of both sane and insane Alignment Cops. What if the Mafia are also (sane) Role Cops?

    I also have a seminal idea for a closed-setup game, but I'm not sure that I would be the best one to try to GM it. It needs a LOT of balancing to work well, I think.


  • sockdevs

    @djls45 said in Game Idea Review:

    To start this off, I'd like to know how can we balance a game where all Town are a mix of both sane and insane Alignment Cops. What if the Mafia are also (sane) Role Cops?

    so basically you have the same idea i'm planning on running with my coptastrophe mafia game?

    great minds think alike!


  • mod

    @djls45 said in Game Idea Review:

    To start this off, I'd like to know how can we balance a game where all Town are a mix of both sane and insane Alignment Cops.

    First things first: in general, cops should rarely be aware of their sanity at the start. I would only make an exception to this if all the cops are sane.

    Secondly, if you are going to have insane cops, the very first time they reveal someone is mafia, they are going to look scummy as hell afterward. They need to have some way to indicate their alignment, but the method probably shouldn't be ironclad. That method should, ideally, not require the use of another player's power. The town won't want to take the time, nor will they want to out another power role just to confirm someone's story. A masonry may be a good option for this, plus it relies on second member of the masonry to survive in order to confirm the insane cop's alignment, which adds some uncertainty. Further uncertainty is included because a scum player could fake claim as an alignment cop and pretend to be in a masonry with a fellow player once an insane town cop makes their play.

    Unfortunately, if you plan to make all town players cops, that combined with the sheer number of masonries would cause a severe imbalance on the game. In order to balance this, I would recommend making a few of the town vanilla and giving the mafia some role blockers. Otherwise, once the town figure out what's going on, they would be unstoppable. If you really want to make all the town cops, then I would suggest making all the mafia roleblockers. Obviously, at least one of them would be unable to block each night, so even on a night going into LYLO, the town should be able to get two successful investigations.

    One final thought to go with the masonry idea, you may want allow play in four phases:

    1. Day - standard town communication and voting, no mafia or masonry talk.
    2. Dusk - this comes just after lynches or at the scheduled end of a day. Allow standard town communication so that the players can simmer a little from any results, and begin opening up the mafia and masonry channels.
    3. Night - standard mafia and masonry talk, no town communication.
    4. Dawn - just after night results have been delivered, allow standard mafia and masonry talk to share results and a brief planning session.

    In that setup, the Dusk phase is pretty much optional, but the Dawn phase would be very necessary.

    Even with all these tweaks, I'm a little uneasy about the balance. It's really hard to balance a game when you are basically giving everyone the same power role, especially a power role like Alignment Cop, because the town will quickly figure out what is going on and slaughter the mafia.

    ETA: IIRC, the use of insane cops would make this setup a bastard game. I suppose if you are going that route you could make a couple of the mafia death millers. If you are going to do that, I would recommend making the game at least partially open, though.



  • Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    Probably, but...
    As a GM who is already bastard, you can probably do something.

    If you don't go full @Weng, you could just do a rocks fall everyone dies thanks for playing scenario


  • sockdevs

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    Potential "hidden" roles:

    • Sane Cop
    • Insane Cop
    • Paranoid Cop
    • Naive Cop

    Potential "hidden" powers:

    • Trigger Happy (kills target if investigates scum, limited use)
    • Result Swap A (Swap Scum and Town results)
    • Result Swap B (Swap My results for Yours, applies after Swap A, does not swap names)
    • True Cop (reveals all hidden posers, Scum power only, cannot be combined with PGO, may be combined with swappers)
    • Firebug Cop (acts as arsonist, triggers on the death of the arsonist, hidden wincon if arsonist takes out half or more of surviving players with them)

    Result: CHAOS! (hopefully)


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Visitor who has a random effect on the visitee.


  • sockdevs

    @error said in Game Idea Review:

    Visitor who has a random effect on the visitee.

    hmm.....

    there's an idea.

    'lair of the dicemaster mafia'

    DUN DUN DUNNNNNN


  • mod

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    That only works if they are aware or suspect that there is a sanity issue. The only other time that I would expect to see town try that is if it is known that everyone has an investigative role. Since investigative roles are generally kept secret until useful information is available, it is unlikely that the town would quickly become aware of the fact that there are enough investigators to warrant such a tactic.

    So, sure, it's a risk, but it's a minimal risk. Since the scenario would be bastard anyway, you could add a note to some or all of the role cards that too many individuals investigating the same person could have disastrous consequences.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @accalia said in Game Idea Review:

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    Potential "hidden" roles:

    • Sane Cop
    • Insane Cop
    • Paranoid Cop
    • Naive Cop

    Potential "hidden" powers:

    • Trigger Happy (kills target if investigates scum, limited use)
    • Result Swap A (Swap Scum and Town results)
    • Result Swap B (Swap My results for Yours, applies after Swap A, does not swap names)
    • True Cop (reveals all hidden posers, Scum power only, cannot be combined with PGO, may be combined with swappers)
    • Firebug Cop (acts as arsonist, triggers on the death of the arsonist, hidden wincon if arsonist takes out half or more of surviving players with them)

    Result: CHAOS! (hopefully)

    No. Sorry. As a player, that'd just suck. It'd make for lots of Club Ded popcorn, but introducing that much chaos to open the game sounds like not much fun.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Here's an idea for a crazy game:

    Everybody has an investigative role; cop, follower, tracker etc. When you investigate someone your results are given to a random other player. So you might go cop on someone, another player finds out their alignment and you get told who visited someone else.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Jaloopa said in Game Idea Review:

    Here's an idea for a crazy game:

    Everybody has an investigative role; cop, follower, tracker etc. When you investigate someone your results are given to a random other player. So you might go cop on someone, another player finds out their alignment and you get told who visited someone else.

    I could get into that, so long as you knew who was going to get the result before you investigate.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @pydsigner where's the fun in that?



  • @abarker said in Game Idea Review:

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    That only works if they are aware or suspect that there is a sanity issue. The only other time that I would expect to see town try that is if it is known that everyone has an investigative role. Since investigative roles are generally kept secret until useful information is available, it is unlikely that the town would quickly become aware of the fact that there are enough investigators to warrant such a tactic.

    So, sure, it's a risk, but it's a minimal risk. Since the scenario would be bastard anyway, you could add a note to some or all of the role cards that too many individuals investigating the same person could have disastrous consequences.

    E.g., if multiple people target the same person, then they all get inverted results?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Jaloopa said in Game Idea Review:

    @pydsigner where's the fun in that?

    You want to win or lose a game based on whether or not your investigation goes to someone motivated differently than you?


  • sockdevs

    @pydsigner said in Game Idea Review:

    @accalia said in Game Idea Review:

    @clatter said in Game Idea Review:

    Couldn't town break the setup by organizing a mass-investigation, where everyone targets the same player on night 1? That would separate the sane/insane camps, and one lynch would determine which is which.

    Potential "hidden" roles:

    • Sane Cop
    • Insane Cop
    • Paranoid Cop
    • Naive Cop

    Potential "hidden" powers:

    • Trigger Happy (kills target if investigates scum, limited use)
    • Result Swap A (Swap Scum and Town results)
    • Result Swap B (Swap My results for Yours, applies after Swap A, does not swap names)
    • True Cop (reveals all hidden posers, Scum power only, cannot be combined with PGO, may be combined with swappers)
    • Firebug Cop (acts as arsonist, triggers on the death of the arsonist, hidden wincon if arsonist takes out half or more of surviving players with them)

    Result: CHAOS! (hopefully)

    No. Sorry. As a player, that'd just suck. It'd make for lots of Club Ded popcorn, but introducing that much chaos to open the game sounds like not much fun.

    well yeah.

    it's chaos. that's kinda the point. :-P

    not at all practical; though.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @accalia said in Game Idea Review:

    well yeah.
    it's chaos. that's kinda the point.
    not at all practical; though.

    ------

    not necessarily evil.... not necessarily good

    Sig checks out


  • mod

    @djls45 said in Game Idea Review:

    E.g., if multiple people target the same person, then they all get inverted results?

    That's a possibility. Or they all randomly get results on each other due to the confusion in the room. If the mass targeting was clearly orchestrated by the town, then maybe one or more of them dies in mysterious circumstances.



  • @abarker said in Game Idea Review:

    If the mass targeting was clearly orchestrated by the town, then maybe one or more of them dies in mysterious circumstances.

    That's laaaazy GMing. "Oh, I didn't put any thought into the setup and the party broke it wide open? Uh, um... Rocks fall, everyone dies!".

    Whatever isn't forbidden by the rules is allowed, and making up punishments because the town found a winning strategy is something that would certainly cause me to not want to play with that GM anymore.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @accalia said in Game Idea Review:

    it's chaos. that's kinda the point.
    not at all practical; though.

    I know I investigated player X. If nobody claims that result I know something's up. I could also investigate X more than once and see if the two people with results have the same results. There might be strategies and it would certainly make for an interesting game


  • mod

    @Maciejasjmj said in Game Idea Review:

    @abarker said in Game Idea Review:

    If the mass targeting was clearly orchestrated by the town, then maybe one or more of them dies in mysterious circumstances.

    That's laaaazy GMing. "Oh, I didn't put any thought into the setup and the party broke it wide open? Uh, um... Rocks fall, everyone dies!".

    Whatever isn't forbidden by the rules is allowed, and making up punishments because the town found a winning strategy is something that would certainly cause me to not want to play with that GM anymore.

    If you follow the conversation @djls45 and I were having back, you'll see that it was covered in the scenario we set up:

    @abarker said in Game Idea Review:

    you could add a note to some or all of the role cards that too many individuals investigating the same person could have disastrous consequences.

    We were discussing possible ways those "disastrous consequences" could play out.

    Try to keep up, will ya?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Jaloopa said in Game Idea Review:

    @accalia said in Game Idea Review:

    it's chaos. that's kinda the point.
    not at all practical; though.

    I know I investigated player X. If nobody claims that result I know something's up. I could also investigate X more than once and see if the two people with results have the same results. There might be strategies and it would certainly make for an interesting game

    I think you replied to the wrong post?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @pydsigner No, my reply was just randomly given to another post.

    SEE HOW FUN IT IS?


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.