🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread





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  • :arrow_forward: :point_right: Fox :arrow_right: japonicus :arrow_right: ChaosTheEternal :arrow_right: dangeRuss :arrow_right: Yamikuronue :arrow_right: CreatedToDislikeThis :arrow_right: :arrow_right: abarker :arrow_right: JazzyJosh :arrow_right: xaade :rewind: :leftwards_arrow_with_hook:



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  • Fox
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  • Created enters the room, expecting to find a discussion already in progress

    "So it looks like I finally came at the right t... No one's here yet. Of course"

    Created resigns to stand by the door and glare at any who comes later than he

    Finally, after a presumably stupidly long wait, a bunch of people come in and Created then speaks:

    "So how does this work? Do we have something to do until our first leader announces his assignment?"



  • cowers from Created's glare
    When the cat's not around the mice should play...
    But given the lateness of the hour and my inebriated state I shall wait till tomorrow.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election Banned

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  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election Banned


  • mod

    @Fox Which mission are you proposing? I'd like to have an idea how much action we're looking at before I go volunteering.



  • Created, following @Fox's introduction, is overcome with a strange emotion - a mix of ridicule with a sharp pang of inadequateness.

    Created decides to address this inadequateness head-on:

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    Created's inadequateness has subsided, replaced by embarrassment


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election Banned


  • mod

    @Fox Hmmm, sounds like a chance to do something. Not that I wouldn't be willing to do a recon mission, but I prefer doing over looking, ya know?


  • mod

    @abarker in other words: count me in!



  • Is this the right place? I haven't wandered into a secret carnival planning session, have I? Oh, this is the M.O.U.S.E. strategy tent? Awesome! I brought popcorn just in case I took a wrong turn and ended up at the carnival, but I was hoping I would be able to help expose that evil Bureau.

    @Fox Starting off with a team of five? Seems like it might be easier for B.I.G.C.A.T. to get their spies into a larger group. A smaller team would mathematically be more likely to not have any spies, and would be easier to confirm M.O.U.S.E. members. I would like to know your reasons for choosing a mission that would require more people.

    That said, I would be quite concerned at being left out of any mission, especially at this point. I don't know who might be traitors to our cause, other than that I obviously know that I am not, so if my being on the team means a spy might be left out of the mission, that is better odds of success.



  • @djls45 After considering this a bit more, I can see that our missions are limited in the number of their participants, and it may be necessary to give up a success or two in order to find these evil spies in our midst. Lose the battle, win the war, and that type of thing. So I guess I have answered my own question to @Fox. I am still volunteering to participate, but I understand that our goal is bigger than my own personal beliefs.



  • @djls45 said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    @Fox Starting off with a team of five? Seems like it might be easier for B.I.G.C.A.T. to get their spies into a larger group. A smaller team would mathematically be more likely to not have any spies, and would be easier to confirm M.O.U.S.E. members. I would like to know your reasons for choosing a mission that would require more people.

    @Fox's ambition is inspiring, but I share your reservations about embarking on such a mission before we know one another better. The odds are not in our favour with such a large crew, but worse than that, if (when?) the mission fails if will be hard to find the culprits among such a large group.



  • "Comrades, if we have mission with highest chance to fail, maybe best to do first. It may be good..." Chaos pauses, thinking of the word, bringing up his hand and hooking his finger. "... fishhooks, for catching spies. And if success, better position for us."



  • @ChaosTheEternal said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    "Comrades, if we have mission with highest chance to fail, maybe best to do first. It may be good..."

    If I've calculated correctly (and combinatorial stuff has never been my strong suit) the mission has only a 2.4% chance of success - assuming that @fox has no prior knowledge of our allegiances and will essentially pick at random.

    When the mission fails, we'll be scarcely better placed than we are now to skin the cats. Five contenders is too many if we need to narrow down our options.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    "I'm willing to do anything and everything I'm called upon to do, sir! But if you're asking for critique, I suggest a smaller mission as well."


  • mod

    @djls45 said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    A smaller team would mathematically be more likely to not have any spies, and would be easier to confirm M.O.U.S.E. members.

    Dammit! I was so excited to get started on taking out B.I.G.C.A.T. that I completely missed that! However, we have only limited mission options. We must take on the bigger missions at some point ...



  • @japonicus said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    If I've calculated correctly (and combinatorial stuff has never been my strong suit) the mission has only a 2.4% chance of success - assuming that @fox has no prior knowledge of our allegiances and will essentially pick at random.

    When the mission fails, we'll be scarcely better placed than we are now to skin the cats. Five contenders is too many if we need to narrow down our options.

    Created checks in the nearest calculator

    "That's roughly the number I get as well. It seems like we'd get less information; about more people; with terrible chances of success."

    "There's probably a reason why books on how to run a resistance assume we'd be going on the smallest missions first and we'd be fools to choose otherwise without very well understanding the advantages and disadvantages of what we're doing."



  • @r10pez10 Point of clarification: can a leader change the mission selection and/or participants before finalizing the proposal?

    In this case, Fox has selected Mission D. Is he now locked into this mission, so he can only propose participants for this mission (so to get a different mission we have to reject his proposal), or can he change to a different mission?



  • @djls45 Hrm. Answered my own question again. (I've gotta stop running my mouth at a time like this. It's gonna get me into trouble. :confused: ) According to the mechanics description in our Helpline, the leader proposes a mission and chooses the squad, and then we discuss and vote whether to approve the proposal.

    With this in mind, @Fox, who do you propose to send on this mission?



  • @djls45 *whom



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  • @r10pez10 All right. Thank you! So we're back to deciding who to send on this one OR whether to switch to another mission.

    I'll have to consider @ChaosTheEternal's point. If we have to run a larger mission it may be good to go with a difficult one first, because it will be difficult for the spies to coordinate as well.

    But, we might not even need to try it at all if we win enough of the others. But on the other hand again, we may be able to get the spies to tip their collective, figurative hand by having more votes to sabotage than is strictly needed to fail the mission.

    In this case, it might be better to start off with mission B (5 members, 2 to fail) to make it harder for the spies to coordinate to fail it; in the second best case, they over-vote and we have a better definition of the pool of suspected spies.



  • "If people say is not good idea to run large mission first, then maybe is not so good idea, but I not know what books they speak of about how to run resistance."

    "Just seems to me a good idea to get risky mission done first. Then either one step closer to overthrow B.I.G.C.A.T. or have idea of spies in our midst."


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election Banned


  • mod

    @djls45 said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    In this case, it might be better to start off with mission B (5 members, 2 to fail) to make it harder for the spies to coordinate to fail it; in the second best case, they over-vote and we have a better definition of the pool of suspected spies.

    That actually seems like a wise course of action.



  • @ChaosTheEternal said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    "If people say is not good idea to run large mission first, then maybe is not so good idea, but I not know what books they speak of about how to run resistance."

    "Just seems to me a good idea to get risky mission done first. Then either one step closer to overthrow B.I.G.C.A.T. or have idea of spies in our midst."

    If you start out the smaller ones, it's easier to catch a spy early, but if you don't figure anything out, then spies have advantage in later game.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @djls45 said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    we're back to deciding who to send on this one

    Here's the thing, though: we're not deciding. Our esteemed leader @fox is deciding and proposing the mission to us. I wouldn't dare suggest to him who to choose. After all, he knows we're trusting in his competency and loyalty to the group and therefore will select as many loyal resistance members as possible, right? ;)



  • @Yamikuronue said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    Here's the thing, though: we're not deciding. Our esteemed leader @fox is deciding and proposing the mission to us. I wouldn't dare suggest to him who to choose. After all, he knows we're trusting in his competency and loyalty to the group and therefore will select as many loyal resistance members as possible, right? ;)

    Created looks at @Yamikuronue in confusion

    "Huh? Do you know something we don't? It's possible, of course, that @Fox is a spy. At this point, we have 0 concrete information about anyone, with only gut feelings to go with, so we'll mostly have to agree/disagree with the first assignment based on whether our get tells us its leader and participants are clean."

    Created thinks for a moment

    "Or maybe based on whether our gut tells us its participants will provide good information in following days if selected. I'm not sure whether to prioritize information or success."

    "Of course, we should also try to get more comments out of people to feed our gut feelings.
    To this end, we should indeed hear from the stragglers (now two, after xaade came). The resistance's punctuality policies may be lax - but not nearly this lax."

    @dangeRuss ; @JazzyJosh


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @CreatedToDislikeThis said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    we'll mostly have to agree/disagree with the first assignment based on whether our get tells us its leader and participants are clean

    That's true. But later, we want the record to reflect @fox's leadership, not our group consensus. You know?



  • @Yamikuronue said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    @CreatedToDislikeThis said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    we'll mostly have to agree/disagree with the first assignment based on whether our get tells us its leader and participants are clean

    That's true. But later, we want the record to reflect @fox's leadership, not our group consensus. You know?

    Makes sense, let's wait and see.



  • Hola, forgot this started over the weekend, sorry guys!



  • Erm, I mean,

    Cheesemaster @JazzyJosh walks in with a catered plate. "Sorry for my tardiness, colleagues. I was sure we'd end up hungry after awhile." He sits down and looks over the plan.

    "I'd say we either do Recon, or Overcast/Cyanotype. St. Bernard is right out with no information. With 10 members here and 4 spies, a three person mission doesn't give us much information if it's first. That being said, it's time to gather information, and I plan to approve any mission and team other than St. Bernard, unless I'm given a good reason not to."


  • mod

    @JazzyJosh said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    "I'd say we either do Recon, or Overcast/Cyanotype. St. Bernard is right out with no information. With 10 members here and 4 spies, a three person mission doesn't give us much information if it's first. That being said, it's time to gather information, and I plan to approve any mission and team other than St. Bernard, unless I'm given a good reason not to."

    Can we just get a proposal on the table already? The longer we sit here debating about what we think the leader ought to do while he doesn't do anything, the longer B.I.G.C.A.T. and its operatives have to catch us! We need to start doing something to take them down!



  • @abarker You seem a little stressed, sit down and have some cheese. No use getting flustered before our mission. We need to be calm and collected, not panicked


  • mod

    @JazzyJosh I'm not panicked. No, it's more like I'm trigger happy to finally get rid of this damned bureau always hovering over us.

    But thank you for the cheese!



  • Sorry I'm late guys, I think the spies have infiltrated my phone, I had to do a full wipe last night.

    I think the recon mission with a higher chance of success makes more sense.


  • mod

    Come on! Let's get this moving!

    Leader @Fox, not much can really happen until you propose a mission and team. You've seen some discussion, but let's get this damn show on the road! If we can't get our act together, I might just go rogue and start doing the missions on my own!





  • @r10pez10 Overcast.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    I've never done this before, but if I were first, I'd grab three people at random and do Birthday Cake. But the more we discuss theory, the better ideas the spies get, don't they? We should do practice and then argue about the results rather than argue in advance about what potential outcomes could mean.


  • mod

    @xaade Overcast does seem a good start, though BIrthday Cake might be a slightly better choice for the first go. At this point, given the little information we do have, I'd pick anyone except for @Fox. This delay of his seems rather fruitless.



  • @Yamikuronue said in 🚧 The Resistance -- Main Thread:

    I've never done this before, but if I were first, I'd grab three people at random and do Birthday Cake. But the more we discuss theory, the better ideas the spies get, don't they? We should do practice and then argue about the results rather than argue in advance about what potential outcomes could mean.

    From what I've read up, spies want the smaller missions first. I'd have to revisit it to remember the reason...


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @xaade Huh, really? Well, don't tell me why, for obvious reasons, but I'm curious for later.


  • mod

    @xaade Let me think about that for a second …

    Ooooh! I have an idea that might explain why spies might like to have the smallest mission done first! Damn you, B.I.G.C.A.T.!

    Anyway, as @Yamikuronue has already stated, it's probably best to not give any spies among us ideas, but I do believe that we want neither the largest nor the smallest missions for our first. I think we want to go with one of the mid-sized missions. We should probably save the smallest mission, and the one that has the best chance of succeeding, for later, when we have a slightly better idea of who is loyal to M.O.U.S.E, and who is not.

    I'm sticking my support (for now) behind either Overcast or Cyanotype with any random team, preferably excluding @Fox the laggard.


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