The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC



  • @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    @Gąska Yeah but you won't be any better at the game

    I already learned a lot from this encounter. For example, to do pre-emptive series of perception rolls if I think I'm followed. And to set up traps around fireplace.

    @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    or any more willing to work with us

    Sure! It was great fun overall.

    @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    or any more willing to take responsibility for your own decisions, so the next time things look bleak I'll be yelled at again.

    I think it's just us being programmers. We yell at all the things all the time.


  • mod

    @Gąska We've had, what, six encounters already? What makes this one different?



  • @Yamikuronue I think it's the first ambush situation. All the others were us acting first.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Gąska Exactly!

    @Yamikuronue You are taking this way too personally. You've already said elsewhere that conflict is not a scenario you handle well. Please acknowledge this and take some time to cool off before things escalate and words get said that can't be taken back. :(


  • mod

    @masonwheeler Right. Clearly I'm the only one who needs to cool off and rethink things.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Yamikuronue You are the one who is seeing someone pointing out mistakes that you made and interpreting them as personal attacks.



  • No, wait. We were previously ambushed by grass thingies. But it was a relatively easy encounter we couldn't have anticipated.


  • mod

    @masonwheeler You just won't stop. For days on end you won't stop. I keep trying to explain and you insist that nothing I say is truthful or even possible. I give up. You win.



  • BTW - why exactly do slavers want to kill us?


  • mod

    @Gąska You personally? Racism; duergar hate dwarves.



  • @Yamikuronue and the rest? They didn't know about me and @accalia in the first encounter. If they were following the party, I'd suspect they want to capture us - or at least the rest of the party.



  • @masonwheeler said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    • A 20 on Diplomacy (with my high bonuses) to convince them that this is not a place they want to be. Ignored.

    Which has nothing to do with not attacking you? You convinced them there's a dragon behind the party... which means following the party is moving them away from the danger you convinced them exists.

    • Telling them we're going this way, and then going that way, to throw them off the trail. Negated due to stealth that we never got more than one chance to detect, despite traveling all day.

    The two scouts that followed you found your tracks moments after the two groups split up, before Alrod starting hiding them. They then followed you until the party met up, after which they were watching you directly.

    • A 20 on Survival to cover our tracks. Negated due to stealth that we never got more than one chance to detect, despite traveling all day.

    Again, tracks don't matter if they're staring directly at you.

    • Having Graak around should make it simply impossible to sneak up on us. Negated due to deliberately interpreting a rule about Perception penalties for horizontal distance as applying to vertical distance.

    Bullshit. Distance is distance. You can't hit the moon with an arrow simply because you're directly below it. I freely acknowledge that having rules of this sort can make things weird but you need some kind of simple rule for distance affecting perception and this is the one they came up with. So that's the rule. Having someone that can fly doesn't not auto-defeat stealth checks.

    BTW - why exactly do slavers want to kill us?

    Their plan is to capture Roland (showed an entertainment skill that gives him value) and Seris (her eyes indicate some interesting heritage that gives her value) and kill the dwarves. If the battle goes smoothly enough, they'll try for Teit and Ariana as well, but they're just bonus. They'll swap to nonlethal damage for their targets when they get low on hp (ie from now on for Seris).


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Kaelas And how long is a Perception check good for?



  • @Kaelas oh, so prison break is certainly an option!

    At least for the others.



  • @masonwheeler

    slow movement speeds

    Covering tracks and hunting both require half movement speed so that cancels out the movement penalty for them having to stealth. And both parties have at least one person with 20 ft move so again, balanced.

    perception checks

    The same as it works for PCs- one roll until circumstances change enough to warrant another. It would slow things down to make PCs roll stealth every round when they're sneaking about in a base, so you roll once. Same goes here- one block of time- 'afternoon'- so one roll.



  • @Kaelas considering we've only had to pass single perception check, it would give us a lot better chance of survival if it was 10 checks per character, not 1. It's not that we got very unlucky - it's either DMs overestimating our capabilities, or just wanting us dead.


  • mod

    Look, here's the last thing I'm going to say: we're not machines. You can't just put tokens in and get story out. If you're not willing to work with the GMs, you don't get anything in return.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Kaelas said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    Distance is distance. You can't hit the moon with an arrow simply because you're directly below it.

    But you can definitely still see it! By this interpretation, it ought to be completely invisible. :P

    @Kaelas said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    Covering tracks and hunting both require half movement speed so that cancels out the movement penalty for them having to stealth.

    That's... an annoyingly good point. :(

    @Kaelas said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    Same goes here- one block of time- 'afternoon'- so one roll.

    @Kaelas In that case, there should have been a massive circumstance bonus factored in to account for the amount of time that the duergar had to remain continually undetected, while moving, trailing the party, in flat grassland with minimal opportunities for concealment. Whichever way you slice it, it just doesn't make any sense to have missed them the entire time, and the ultimate result should reflect that...



  • @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    Look, here's the last thing I'm going to say: we're not machines. You can't just put tokens in and get story out. If you're not willing to work with the GMs, you don't get anything in return.

    I wish I could reply meaningfully to this, but it's just too vague. I understand it's both the DMs and players who are responsible for storytelling. But combats are inherently DMs vs players, and it's almost entirely the DMs who decide how big chance the players have at overcoming a challenge, and it's almost entirely random numbers that decide if they do. Players have very limited influence over this, because they're not aware of 90% that's going on around them, and it's by design.



  • As a note, I've locked the game thread. As of right now, I'm not really interested in actually playing this out.

    @Kaelas considering we've only had to pass single perception check, it would give us a lot better chance of survival if it was 10 checks per character, not 1. It's not that we got very unlucky - it's either DMs overestimating our capabilities, or just wanting us dead.

    I'm not entirely clear as to what you're saying here. There was no real luck involved- I took the average roll of ten for everyone (so 10+ your perception bonus) just the same way I would do if the party was sneaking up on NPCs.

    But you can definitely still see it! By this interpretation, it ought to be completely invisible. :package:

    Really, really, really big size penalty to Stealth checks.

    That's... an annoyingly good point. :(

    Thank you.

    @Kaelas In that case, there should have been a massive circumstance bonus factored in to account for the amount of time that the duergar had to remain continually undetected, while moving, trailing the party, in flat grassland with minimal opportunities for concealment.

    Why? By that same logic, I should be applying a penalty to the party, for their frayed nerves and general tiredness of trying to keep watch while traveling all day. Heck, I could come up with tons of reasons to tweak the number up and down for both sides of the equation. But that gets tedious and pointless (as they start canceling out) so you're not supposed to do that in D&D.

    Whichever way you slice it, it just doesn't make any sense to have missed them the entire time, and the ultimate result should reflect that...

    Because people in real life have never followed other people for hours on end without being spotted? There are thousands (tens or hundreds of thousands over the years) of special forces, hunters and the like that would like to disagree with you. Heck, you haven't noticed me behind you at all this afternoon so... clearly it's possible.

    I wish I could reply meaningfully to this, but it's just too vague.

    She's muted this thread anyway so that's fine.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    we're not machines.

    ...and neither are we.

    @Yamikuronue said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    You can't just put tokens in and get story out.

    We're attempting to put effort to collaboratively tell an interesting story in and get story out. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

    If you're not willing to work with the GMs, you don't get anything in return.

    We are! I certainly am! It's just that there's a difference between "work with" and "roll over for."

    I'm prepared to run this encounter. I wouldn't have set up a hero point move to start things off if I wasn't! I just want apparently the exact same thing you do: to not keep getting accused of acting in bad faith. Are you willing to meet me halfway on that?



  • @Kaelas said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    I'm not entirely clear as to what you're saying here. There was no real luck involved- I took the average roll of ten for everyone (so 10+ your perception bonus) just the same way I would do if the party was sneaking up on NPCs.

    I guess we should have said we're actively watching whether someone is following us for real rolls? Because taking 10 caps us at 12-20, while real check could go as high as 30 (I think I remember someone in the party having +10 perception).


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Kaelas said in The Impossible Mission: Group B OOC:

    Because people in real life have never followed other people for hours on end without being spotted?

    This usually involves having something to hide behind.

    special forces

    CR1 special forces?

    As a note, I've locked the game thread. As of right now, I'm not really interested in actually playing this out.

    I sincerely hope that changes once everyone's had some time to cool off. :(


  • Impossible Mission - B

    Sorry, I was away for the long weekend. But wow, things have taken an, uhm, interesting turn of events...

    My thoughts: All players have a style of play they prefer, and all GM's have a style of play they prefer to use. So some GM/player combinations will work better than others. Obviously this is one that works less well.

    As for myself, this is my first RPG and I enjoyed all of it so far. I would be sad to see it end, but at the same time I don't want to play with other players who are not enjoying it anymore...


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