Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?


  • Dupa

    GOOD point from Dawkins:

    really did hear the following remark yesterday on television: “Well, it isn’t called Great Britain for nothing, is it? I’m voting for our historic greatness.” Actually it was originally called Britannia major to distinguish it from Britannia minor, the French province of Brittany. Later, “Great Britain” signified the union with Scotland, and distinguished the geographically larger of the British Isles from the smaller, Ireland. It has never meant “great” in the bombastic sense you imagine will justify your “patriotic” vote

    Hmmm, cheers…?


    filed under: because there's never enough of brexit-bashing



  • @kt_

    #Brexit: Richard Dawkins Loses His Objectivity – 08:27
    — Computing Forever

    It was a democratic vote, even in the legal system in a jury there can be dumbasses.

    The racism crap is horrible. But they do this every-time anything patriotic becomes popular. The same happens in Gibraltar and Spain on a daily basis btw.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 OI! :hanzo: edits are not good when you post a YT link, at least let me watch it till the end before forcing a refresh!



  • @kt_ sorry dude, I just couldn't help myself. I am quite passionate about this.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_

    #Brexit: Richard Dawkins Loses His Objectivity – 08:27
    — Computing Forever

    It was a democratic vote, even in the legal system in a jury there can be dumbasses.

    1. This guy has really booooring reading-voice. :/
    2. His slide show looks like something a 10-year old could do for a school project.
    3. Dawkins was a 'remain' supporter, but in reality should I really have been surprised? So many scientists seem to be against leaving out of self-interest due to the science funding the EU provides to the UK. Now, I'm not saying that's the reason Dawkins is against Brexit, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

    The obvious response:

    I'm asking questions – 00:18
    — Achmed Suetuel

    This guy is not only boring. He's also stupid.

    Then he goes on to say: Dawkins is showing his bias, because he's not thinking like me. In a boring voice.



  • @kt_ I like his apparently boring voice, I dunno what slide you are talking about.



  • @kt_ Then he goes on to say: Dawkins is showing his bias, because he's not thinking like me. In a boring voice

    Look I won't speak for everyone that voted, but you were supposed to vote about not only what benefits you but everyone else in the long run. Dawkins' biases are his and doesn't include benefit anyone except for him and people like himself.

    Also it is irrelevant if his voice is boring if he has a good point.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ I like his apparently boring voice, I dunno what slide you are talking about.

    The slide show he put together to go as a background to his boring voice so he can pretend he's made a video.

    But hey, this guy must be cool! He's got 2 Dawkin's books, a Mac and a beard!

    0_1470338779911_moron.PNG



  • @kt_ He does loads of laptop reviews and social commentary, lots of people subscribe to him (hint there is a counter) and like his videos. So you are by numbers in the minority.

    I also dunno how you can pretend to make a video when what he has posted plays like a video, with sound and pictures that follows a continuity of ideas and it follows the laws of time.

    How about attacking his ideas rather than things you don't like.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ Then he goes on to say: Dawkins is showing his bias, because he's not thinking like me. In a boring voice

    Look I won't speak for everyone that voted, but you were supposed to vote about not only what benefits you but everyone else in the long run. Dawkins' biases are his and doesn't include benefit anyone except for him and people like himself.

    Do you hear how moronic this sounds? Your whole argument is based on the premise that this guy is right. On what he thinks could've made Dawkins vote a certain way, based only on his another belief (there are no sources) that many scientists vote to stay because of the funding.

    He's basically saying: if someone voted for staying, they're doing this because EU gives them money! There is no other reason someone could vote the other way!

    Also it is irrelevant if his voice is boring if he has a good point.

    That I can agree on. But they're not, so this ship has sailed.


    I brought up Dawkins's article only because of the Great Britain point.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ He does loads of laptop reviews and social commentary, lots of people subscribe to him (hint there is a counter) and like his videos. So you are by numbers in the minority.

    I also dunno how you can pretend to make a video when what he has posted plays like a video, with sound and pictures that follows a continuity of ideas and it follows the laws of time.

    How about attacking his ideas rather than things you don't like.

    Well, I actually attacked both.

    Or not. I didn't attack his ideas, I attacked his reasoning that led him to his ideas. So I did attack 2 things, in the end. :)


    Also: the downvote you got isn't from me. And I really do think they should be public...



  • @kt_

    Do you hear how moronic this sounds? Your whole argument is based on the premise that this guy is right. On what he thinks could've made Dawkins vote a certain way, based only on his another belief (there are no sources) that many scientists vote to stay because of the funding.

    Other scientists have said this, and it has been all over BBC news. If there was an official source of news in the UK the BBC is it.

    I linked him because he said what I could say on there better than what I would say.


  • area_can

    @kt_ said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    I really do think they should be public...

    QFT


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_

    Do you hear how moronic this sounds? Your whole argument is based on the premise that this guy is right. On what he thinks could've made Dawkins vote a certain way, based only on his another belief (there are no sources) that many scientists vote to stay because of the funding.

    Other scientists have said this, and it has been all over BBC news. If there was an official source of news in the UK the BBC is it.

    Huh, didn't know that. I understand how this could anger Brexiters. But this still is a below-the-belt attack.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    The racism crap is horrible. But they do this every-time anything patriotic becomes popular. The same happens in Gibraltar and Spain on a daily basis btw.

    QFT.

    However, what this article is pointing to is that it's (among other things) the May-led Home Office's actions and hers rejection to guarantee legal status for EU migrants as PM that contribute to the situation.

    I don't know a lot about the situation, but does that sound about right? @Arantor?



  • @kt_ H

    However, what this article is pointing to is that it's (among other things) the May-led Home Office's actions and hers rejection to guarantee legal status for EU migrants as PM that contribute to the situation.

    How? Individuals are liable for their actions. These racist incidents were carried out by individuals without any moral fibre. Theresa may or brexit or anyone else except for themselves are not responsible for their actions.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I'm sure a lot of scientists did vote in because of funding but it doesn't necessarily follow that it was selfish.. At don't do research just for the money, scientific progress has led to huge improvements in quality of life across the world.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    How? Individuals are liable for their actions. These racist incidents were carried out by individuals without any moral fibre. Theresa may or brexit or anyone else except for themselves are not responsible for their actions.

    Singling Ms May out as one of those who helped create such a ‘hostile environment’, the report recalls that in 2012, Ms May, the then Home Secretary, used a newspaper interview to declare: “The aim is to create here in Britain a really hostile environment for illegal migration.”

    The report says: “This was brought to fruition in July 2013 when the Home Office deployed mobile advans in six London boroughs telling people to ‘GO HOME or face arrest’ in its 'Operation Vaken'.”

    “This has been building for some time and Theresa May was blowing a dog whistle when she commissioned those ad vans. After the referendum she added to the problem by refusing to guarantee EU nationals legal status to stay in the UK.

    Also: I hate it when you're so calm. Why can't you lose your shit and cal me a moron for once?


    Filed under: like you used to, in the good old sunny days



  • @kt_ but those actions were years ago, while horrible. I doubt you could say they were due to brexit.

    Also: I hate it when you're so calm. Why can't you lose your shit and cal me a moron for once?

    Fuck off you fucking cunt face cunt ... is that better? :D


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ but those actions were years ago, while horrible. I doubt you could say they were due to brexit.

    Also: I hate it when you're so calm. Why can't you lose your shit and cal me a moron for once?

    Fuck off you fucking cunt face cunt ... is that better? :D

    Hell yeah! :D


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 OK, I finally forced myself to watch it till the end and although I do agree what he says about the interview in the second part of the "video", the whole build-up and the criticism of his article were still awful.

    Altogether, I still don't like this guy.



  • @kt_ I used to shout shit like that when I was under mega pressure at betfred to get shit done.


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ I used to shout shit like that when I was under mega pressure at betfred to get shit done.

    I miss your stress. :(



  • @kt_ That is fair enough. I disagree, it makes a lot of sense to me.



  • @kt_ I was going to make a like html 5 animation thing when I left gib. Where I did this massive rage face and then said something contentious. Here are some samples. Recording the audio were easier than making the app.

    0_1470344238107_what is it doing.mp3

    0_1470344196275_the code that talks.mp3

    0_1470344129027_onions.mp3

    0_1470344154140_shut up.mp3

    0_1470344299564_wtf_about.mp3


  • sockdevs

    @kt_ said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    The racism crap is horrible. But they do this every-time anything patriotic becomes popular. The same happens in Gibraltar and Spain on a daily basis btw.

    QFT.

    However, what this article is pointing to is that it's (among other things) the May-led Home Office's actions and hers rejection to guarantee legal status for EU migrants as PM that contribute to the situation.

    I don't know a lot about the situation, but does that sound about right? @Arantor?

    There's a lot to it. Partly that under her watch in the Home Office, immigration went up quite seriously, and immigration was a key point of debate in the Brexit vote. Partly there's been threats from the Spanish government about deporting UK expats back to the UK after Brexit happens so she's fired back with that she won't guarantee EU citizens' legal status at this time, at least until there's something on the table to encourage her to make it happen.

    Certainly in the run up to the vote, the undertones of racism had become less subtle with 'won't it be good when all the foreigners fuck off' type comments and the media has been spinning tales about how all these people come here, steal our jobs, mooch off our benefits (at the same time, apparently) and use up all the resources that 'rightfully belong to Britain for the British' or somesuch nonsense (while conveniently omitting that immigrants invariably pay more into the system than they take out)



  • @Arantor you were the guy calling me a racist because I voted out. How is what you said any different than what you was complaining about?

    Immigration was a big thing about brexit because quite a lot of people think the country is too crowded.

    Australia and New Zealand are massive and they have fucking strict immigration


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    a lot of people think the country is too crowded.
    Australia and New Zealand are massive and they have fucking strict immigration

    Looked it up out of curiosity:

    England doesn't seem to be included (independent of the UK, that is), but a couple British2008 tabloids2013/2014 put it around 411 per km2.

    By comparison (all numbers are population per km2):

    • Monaco: 19,010 (:wtf:)
    • United Kingdom: 262
    • Ireland: 68
    • World (land only, without Antartica): 54
    • World (land only, with Antartica): 49
    • United States: 32.96
    • Russia: 8.42
    • Australia: 3.14
    • New Zealand: 17.39


  • @Dreikin said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    By comparison (all numbers are population per km2):

    • Monaco: 19,010 (:wtf:)

    Remember that Monaco is really just one small city - it's only 2 km2.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Dragnslcr said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    Remember that Monaco is really just one small city - it's only 2 km2

    I actually did not know that. I knew it was small, but not that small.


  • sockdevs

    @lucas1 I was the guy calling you racist in an attempt to get a reaction out of you, and for which I apologised.

    Also, you seem to be unable to differentiate between me observing what the situation seems to be and me having an opinion on the subject. The post above does not offer much of an opinion, merely observes what was going on before and what seems to be happening now... I deliberately didn't offer an opinion on it, mostly because I had a feeling such a thing would be misinterpreted.



  • @Dreikin If one starts to consider constituent countries of a sovereign state separately, then England still isn't the most densely populated, because for example the constituent country of North-Rhine-Westphalia has a density of 517 per km² (and that is not Germany's hotbed of anti-immigration thinking).



  • @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    Other scientists have said this, and it has been all over BBC news. If there was an official source of news in the UK the BBC is it.

    I don't think I've yet heard of anybody in academia/research who thinks positively of the brexit (I'm not in the UK, though, so there is probably a bit of bias).

    I guess that funding is a part of it, but there are other things too. Collaborations will get more difficult, especially where you need to access to resources/labs of which there may only be a handful in the world (e.g., that EU-based computing cluster you were using? will you still be able to get access to it after brexit? nobody knows.). Younger researchers need to stay mobile and move around for jobs, established groups want to recruit from outside of the UK -- both of which will very likely get more complicated. And what about programs like Erasmus and whatnot?

    So ... are you really saying that it's "wrong" for these people to vote against something that may end up threatening their and their colleagues' livelihood in the future? Something that will likely reduces jobs in their field(s)? And that will likely adversely affect ongoing and future projects/collaborations, possibly decades in the future (and that may have taken decades to build)?


  • mod

    @Dreikin I learned yesterday that Canada has less population than Shanghai.



  • @cvi

    So ... are you really saying that it's "wrong" for these people to vote against something that may end up threatening their and their colleagues' livelihood in the future? Something that will likely reduces jobs in their field(s)? And that will likely adversely affect ongoing and future projects/collaborations, possibly decades in the future (and that may have taken decades to build)?

    No, I disagree with them saying "people shouldn't be allowed to vote".


  • Dupa

    @lucas1 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @cvi

    So ... are you really saying that it's "wrong" for these people to vote against something that may end up threatening their and their colleagues' livelihood in the future? Something that will likely reduces jobs in their field(s)? And that will likely adversely affect ongoing and future projects/collaborations, possibly decades in the future (and that may have taken decades to build)?

    No, I disagree with them saying "people shouldn't be allowed to vote".

    How does that follow? "Scientists say they will vote to stay because of funding and research opportunities and they only think of their own gain instead of what will benefit all people. Dawkins is a scientist. Dawkins says people shouldn't be allowed to vote. I disagree with scientists and not because they are selfish, but because they say we shouldn't be allowed to vote."

    Huh?


    Filed under: INB4, I intentionally left out the fact that Dawkins said he shouldn't be allowed to vote, too. But that's also an important fact not taken into account in this line of reasoning



  • @Dragnslcr If I draw a 1m×1m square around me, that square has a density of 1,000,000 people/km2.



  • @anonymous234 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @Dragnslcr If I draw a 1m×1m square around me, that square has a density of 1,000,000 people/km2.

    Vatican: 4.5 (living) popes/km²



  • @anonymous234 said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @Dragnslcr If I draw a 1m×1m square around me, that square has a density of 1,000,000 people/km2.

    Congratulations?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Dreikin City-states like Monaco and Singapore have really crazy-high densities, but that's because they don't even come close to trying to grow their own food.

    The UK is relatively dense, and that's despite having a significant proportion of the countryside without a lot of inhabitants. (For example, the climate in much of the Highlands of Scotland is just really ruddy miserable for most of the year, and there's quite a bit of England and Wales which aren't actually much nicer during the winter either.)



  • @Dragnslcr Thank you.



  • @Dreikin said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    England doesn't seem to be included (independent of the UK, that is), but a couple British2008 tabloids2013/2014 put it around 411 per km2.

    It’s not like it’s hard to look up:

    says 420.5/km² — which, I’m surprised to learn, is more than the Netherlands (408/km²), widely said to be one the densest-populated parts of Europe (of course, doing the same as with England vs. the UK, then just the provinces of Holland turn out to be about 1200/km²).



  • @kt_ said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    that many scientists vote to stay because of the funding.

    I know at least one that admitted to it.

    Some... lightningh4nd guy...



  • I love how everyone is focused on UK's current 'racism' of... not a race... or whatever, and completely ignore that Japan is even more exclusive against Muslims and don't generally give a fuck.

    I suppose people gave up on trying to convince them? :confused:



  • @Dreikin said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    New Zealand: 17.39

    To be fair though, a full quarter of the population lives in one city, and there are mountains along the middle, making this measurement a bit odd.


  • Impossible Mission - B

    @Magus said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    To be fair though, a full quarter of the population lives in one city, and there are mountains along the middle, making this measurement a bit odd.

    You see contrasts like that in most places. Here in the USA, you've got NYC, which is so tightly packed that sardines would complain about the living conditions, and then you've got millions of square miles of flyover country to balance it out, and in between, a bunch of halfway decent places to live.



  • @xaade So fucking what?

    It's not just "I'll vote stay in order to keep my job", although that would be a fairly reasonable reason to vote one way or the other anyway, but also "I'll vote stay so that me, and other people like me, can carry on doing work that improves life for (at least) the whole of the human race". Or "I'll vote stay in order that the UK remains a centre of scientific excellence", which might be something the brexiters could have thought about..


  • Dupa

    @xaade said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    @kt_ said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    that many scientists vote to stay because of the funding.

    I know at least one that admitted to it.

    Some... lightningh4nd guy...

    Huh? I don't get what you're trying to say.


  • Dupa

    @xaade said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    I love how everyone is focused on UK's current 'racism' of... not a race... or whatever, and completely ignore that Japan is even more exclusive against Muslims and don't generally give a fuck.

    I suppose people gave up on trying to convince them? :confused:

    Does that really surprise you? That rising xenophobia in the UK is more interesting right now than status quo in Japan? Gee, how could that be?…



  • @tufty said in Hey, UK, be white, be Christian, be Great?:

    It's not just "I'll vote stay in order to keep my job", although that would be a fairly reasonable reason to vote

    I agree.

    Look, despite all the polarization and demonization, it's ok to have different views and different needs.

    It's ok to vote for those views and needs.

    I wish people would be mature enough to accept that.


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