Turkish Coup
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@Khudzlin said in Turkish Coup:
The first post by @xaade, not the first post of the thread.
You expected me to go back to the start to verify this?
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@coldandtired I implore you to reconsider…
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
He did. I've heard it before, even from non-Internet people. I think there's a famous guy in your country that suggested it a little while ago. He's currently in some kind of popularity contest. Rich famous guy, can't think of his name. The guy with the ridiculous comb-over.
Not familiar with that, either. Sorry
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
Those were the claims from Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.
Ah, yes, for the people who were prosecuted for that.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
... and that makes it not torture? Fuck off yourself.
It's not torture makes it not torture.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
These rights include the right not to be detained without reason.
From my (limited) understanding, it sounds like they're intercepting the boats beyond Australian territory, so they've found a way around the treaty.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
So you may think it's hypocritical of me to criticise you when we don't follow our obligations, except I didn't vote for either of the parties that support our current abuses.
No, I don't think it's hypocritical, it's just wrong because you haven't provided any examples of treaty violations on the part of the US, and I'm not sure about Australia (which seems to be in violation of the spirit, but not necessarily the letter of the treaties).
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@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
I never suggested you block all immigration,
I don't recall Trump saying that either.
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
Whoa! Fucking barbarians.
Exactly! Those seem to be the types who end up on the wrong end of the capital punishment.
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@flabdablet said in Turkish Coup:
@boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:
Yeah..."international law" is bullshit.
Denis Leary - Asshole (Uncensored Version) – [03:20..04:41] 04:41\
Your non-contribution has been noted.
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@dse TFA was sadly lacking in juicy details, but I guess it'll take time for people to go through them, especially since they're presumably in Turkish.
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I'm beginning to figure out that the philosophy works this way.
In any scenario identify the persons with faculty and those without.
Those with [arbitrary factor] are guilty of their own actions, and of creating the environment for those without [arbitrary factor]. Always beg the question here, never demonstrate that this is true, or how you even came to the conclusion. If it's so obvious that a child can tell that the situation is reversed from the begged question, retrograde until you can demonstrate it was this way at some point. Ignore all other situations in the past against your assumption. (ottoman empire, etc)
Those without [arbitrary factor] are guilty of nothing, should not be punished, only reformed, and restituted.
Any victims belonging to the category of [lack of arbitrary factor] have the capacity to resolve their own damages.
The [arbitrary factor] should be linked generically to "white cis males" as much as possible. Then you don't even have to prove in individual cases whether the individuals involved actually benefit or are disenfrachised by the access or lack-thereof of the [arbitrary factor]
Examples:
If bobby's father left him, putting him in a single family which put stress on him affecting everything from grades to poverty to proclivity to violence or crime, always counter this with an example of the father going to jail. Always replace a personal choice with an environmental factor. Preferably tie the arrest to a non-violent crime.
Then make arguments for a bunch of economic programs that never solves the issue, just layers access to opportunities that are never taken or wasted due to the proclivity of the person affected by the damaged household.
When countered with this, go back to the above list where we link the benefits to "whitey", even though white people in the same damaged families are also inclined to crime and violence to the same degree.
Finally, when all this is deconstructed by the person in disagreement, hand-waive it with "it's too complicated" and never offer a solution.
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@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
I'm beginning to figure out that the philosophy works this way.
AKA, Who? Whom?
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The liberal philosophy of responsibility and ethics.
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Huh. I didn't realize that the guy who Erdogan is claiming is behind stuff has his compound about an hour south of me.
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@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
Only when you use complicated methods.
From what I understand it's the appeals process that's expensive, not the execution itself. The chemicals are cheap and the cost of the facility is amortized over the millions of killings you get to do in your industrialised death machine.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
Did they or did they not murder multiple people?
That's a very good question. The answer is: Usually but not always. The justice system is imperfect yet death is final. Many innocents are put to death.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
You're arguing that the justice system is unfair to black people, but outside of implying heavily that it should treat black people differently (with favor instead of disfavor in mind), I don't get what your point is.
My point is the entire justice system is biased against minorites and especially poor people. It's not important why or how for this discussion, it's only important that the bias exists. Taking out your vengence fantasies on the victims of this bias is cowardly.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
It doesn't achieve what you want, which is reformation.
Rehabilitation is one thing I want, yes, but I can't always have it, and it's not the only goal of the justice system.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
It absolutely removes someone that can't seem to avoid killing people.
And people who didn't kill people but are too poor or dark-skinned to mount an effective defence or victims of poor police work or forensic work or downright malicious police work. Also, as we've discussed, recidivism rates for murder are so low that if you let every murderer go free you'd still not be creating a massive murdering crime spree. And before you start, I'm not suggesting at all that it's an appropriate action, I'm saying that the death penalty doesn't even achieve what you want.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
If your goal is to prevent crime, or some other unreasonable thing, then nothing accomplishes that.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. There are many effective ways to reduce crime rates. But by the time you get to "How do we punish this guy to stop other people doing what he did?" you've already missed your opportunity. Crime isn't prevented by justice systems, it's reduced by social systems, welfare systems, education systems, healthcare systems, urban planning, family planning, etc. You know, all that expensive "socialism whargarrbl" stuff.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
You seem to spend a lot of time mincing words so that it doesn't look like to oppose any attempt of a country to secure its borders.
I don't oppose that and I never said I did. I'd prefer if it were not necessary but that's not the world we live in.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
any attempt at border security is treating the situation too simplistic.
I didn't say that either.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
begging the question that we need to treat refugees as anything other than a graceful gesture
That question has already been answered and the answer is Yes, we (USA and Australia both, along with most (all?) of the EU) are required by agreements we have made to treat refugees decently and to hear their claims.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
citizens are not the priority
I didn't say that either.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
I'm beginning to figure out that the philosophy works this way.
I don't know how to respond to the rest of your post because the bits I can pluck out of the incoherence don't seem related at all to what I've been saying.
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@boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:
Exactly! Those seem to be the types who end up on the wrong end of the capital punishment.
Ignorant
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
Taking out your vengence fantasies on the victims of this bias is cowardly.
Releasing hardened criminals because you're afraid to actually punish real criminals of real crimes because of statistics, is cowardly as well.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
You know, all that expensive "socialism whargarrbl" stuff.
I'm thinking we're using different definitions for prevent.
I'm saying that you can't interpret motives before someone commits a crime. You can't restrict the rights of people to preempt a crime they haven't committed.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
we have made to treat refugees decently and to hear their claims.
We are required to accept refugees across our border?
Or we're required to treat refugees that we do accept, with a certain level of care and respect?Two different things.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
I didn't say that either.
Seems like we're closer than it first appears.
@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
Ignorant
Sufficient evidence.
If it's caught on camera, with 100 people testifying. And they plead guilty. There's a point where there's no risk of executing the wrong person.
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
@boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:
Exactly! Those seem to be the types who end up on the wrong end of the capital punishment.
Ignorant
Look, I'm not the one arguing on behalf of the lives of monsters who deserve to die.
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@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
Releasing hardened criminals because you're afraid to actually punish real criminals of real crimes because of statistics, is cowardly as well.
Who said that? You're arguing with a fiction. Am I writing that poorly that you actually think I said those things?
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
I'm saying that you can't interpret motives before someone commits a crime. You can't restrict the rights of people to preempt a crime they haven't committed.
Who said to do that? I think you're trying to do that by stopping refugees who are going to commit crimes.
BTW, your country has "drug paraphernalia" laws that do exactly what you're claiming can't be done. To those of us in more free countries that shit is nuts. And guess which groups of people fall victim to these laws the most?
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
We are required to accept refugees across our border?
Yes.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
Or we're required to treat refugees that we do accept, with a certain level of care and respect?
Also yes.
@xaade said in Turkish Coup:
If it's caught on camera, with 100 people testifying. And they plead guilty. There's a point where there's no risk of executing the wrong person.
There may be a point where the risk is quite low but it's not zero, and I don't think the current system gets anywhere near "quite low" either.
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@boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:
Look, I'm not the one arguing on behalf of the lives of monsters who deserve to die.
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@Rhywden said in Turkish Coup:
"Hey, I disagree with you but don't have any real arguments to counter you so here's a downvote because I can!"
I think people are down voting you because you said "FUD"
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@bb36e said in Turkish Coup:
@Rhywden said in Turkish Coup:
"Hey, I disagree with you but don't have any real arguments to counter you so here's a downvote because I can!"
I think people are down voting you because you said "FUD"
So? Next time I'll be downvoted because something devoid of light "black"?
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
@boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:
Look, I'm not the one arguing on behalf of the lives of monsters who deserve to die.
Oh, so you weren't saying that capital punishment was wrong. Sorry, that seemed to be your stance.
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@boomzilla Right or wrong, it has nothing to do with justice.
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@flabdablet Um...no.
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
The chemicals are cheap and the cost of the facility is amortized over the millions of killings you get to do in your industrialised death machine.
When did this become a discussion of abortion?
Filed under:
Edit: This is really probably less flame than already introduced by the attempted Godwin's bypass; according to the UN, there are ~12,000 unlawful homicides/year in the US, so this death machine will have to run for a century to rack up even the first million.
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@boomzilla This is the first reply to me in a while that was actually correct.
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
@boomzilla This is the first reply to me in a while that was actually correct.
I honestly couldn't tell whether or not you were being sarcastic the first time, but after the second time without a
I assumed that you meant it.
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@another_sam said in Turkish Coup:
@boomzilla This is the first reply to me in a while that was actually correct.
All of my replies are correct or I would have not posted or at least would have admitted after the fact. But yes, apparently I misunderstood that you aren't against capital punishment.
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@boomzilla You were on a roll there, one correct. Now you've ruined it.
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@another_sam Where?
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Wheeee!
Turkey ‘surrounds’ NATO nuclear base
TURKISH citizens and police have ‘surrounded’ the Incirlik air base it operates with the United States — and where a large stockpile of NATO nuclear weapons is held — ahead of a visit by a senior US official tomorrow.
is an ex-explorer?
Turkey blocks access to WikiLeaks after ruling party email dump
