Turkish Coup



  • Turkish military at it again.

    Germany finally found a refugee they won't admit?



  • @boomzilla I hope he gassed up before he took off. Might be a long trip.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Holy fucking shit. Just when you think the situation in Turkey is as fucked up as it could be, it gets worse.

    And the worst part: This coup shows that Erdogan was actually right. As much as everyone disagrees with his policies, he didn't just imagine the traitors he claimed to be fighting against.

    That, BTW, is all the Turkish public is going to remember. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be happy about this development.



  • @asdf said in Turkish Coup:

    And the worst part: This coup shows that Erdogan was actually right. As much as everyone disagrees with his policies, he didn't just imagine the traitors he claimed to be fighting against.

    It's not like it's something new for Turkey to have a coup against an Islamist leaning government or anything, though.

    @asdf said in Turkish Coup:

    That, BTW, is all the Turkish public is going to remember. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be happy about this development.

    Do you think it will be all that much more different from previous times?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:

    It's not like it's something new for Turkey to have a coup against an Islamist leaning government or anything, though.

    True, but the last one was quite some time ago and the army has since lost the support of the population.

    @boomzilla said in Turkish Coup:

    Do you think it will be all that much more different from previous times?

    No idea, but this coup certainly won't make it any better.


  • Banned

    anything is better than islam


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @otter I'm sure this coup will magically make everyone change their religion and solve all issues with Islamist extremism.

    ...Oh, wait, the effect will be exactly the opposite.

    Also, bonus points for using the word "Islam" when you actually mean "theocracy". Great argument there.



  • Russia must be loving this and when I mean Russia, I mean old Vlad.



  • I'll say this: the coup is going to make things worse no matter the outcome, and it's going to get extremely violent. But managing to depose Erodagon (whatever the Smeagol looking guy is) is a good start towards restoring Ataturk's vision of Turkey.



  • @Sumireko said in Turkish Coup:

    But managing to depose Erodagon (whatever the Smeagol looking guy is)

    For some reason I read that as 'Ero Dragon', which makes me think of kinky Japanese sky lizards...

    Actually, though, now that I think of it, 'Erodagon' is even worse - while Dagon isn't as known for the naughty tentacles as some other Lovecraftian beasties, it's still a pretty mind-bendy idea. Maybe Ero Dagon is why Erodagan is fleeing...



  • It's kind of fucked up that a country can have a military coup with fewer civilian casualties than a truck driving through a fireworks show.



  • I think you misspelled "deliberately driving a truck at high speed through a crowd for a mile and a half"


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat Failed military coup, to be more precise, if you can trust the latest news.



  • This was probably the last chance to stop the de-seculirazitaion of Turkey. The army was the last organization that was not under direct control of Erdogan. If the news are to be believed and the coup indeed failed, Erdogan will make damn sure it doesn't stay that way for long.



  • @blakeyrat said in Turkish Coup:

    It's kind of fucked up that a country can have a military coup with fewer civilian casualties than a truck driving through a fireworks show.

    Except it didn't. The number at least doubled.



  • @Deadfast He has already said that it is to be purged.



  • Something got seriously lost in translation:

    TL;DR:

    For hours it was unclear where President Erdogan was. Reports said he was on holiday at the Aegean resort of Marmaris, deep in Turkey's south-west.
    The tide turned when the president flew into Istanbul's Ataturk airport and gave a defiant news conference.
    The moment he touched base in Istanbul it was clear the government was regaining control and had the support of senior military figures.
    Ankara, where his palace and the government are based, was not yet secure, but in Istanbul he was able to address Turkey directly.

    Either that or a case of premature exclamation by

    MSNBC: Erdogan seeking asylum in Germany-his plane is requesting landing rights. #Turkey— maria lia calvo (@MariaLiaCalvo) July 15, 2016
    MSNBC: Germany denied permission to land. #Turkey https://t.co/yprbCqhXAs— maria lia calvo (@MariaLiaCalvo) July 15, 2016

    Whoever who or what that is



  • @asdf said in Turkish Coup:

    @blakeyrat Failed military coup, to be more precise, if you can trust the latest news.

    Or a false flag operation. Just sayin', because this was a pretty pathetic attempt at a coup and let's not forget what happened last year.


  • area_can

    @Rhywden

    crisis actors



  • Now Erdogan has everything to be the supreme leader :) How cool is that to have one of them just bordering Europe.



  • @dse Bordering? If Erdogan has his way, TurkeyErdogania will be a part of the EU.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dse said in Turkish Coup:

    How cool is that to have one of them just bordering Europe.

    You mean like in Byelorussia?



  • Purge has already begun.

    BBC has a pretty good breakdown: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36813924

    I knew Erdogan was becoming increasingly authoritarian, but I didn't know he was considered an Islamist.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @lucas1 said in Turkish Coup:

    I knew Erdogan was becoming increasingly authoritarian, but I didn't know he was considered an Islamist.

    I think the Foreign Secretary was moved to turn to poetry on these matters:

    Fortunately, he wasn't in post at the time, but at the point where some negotiations are carried out (bound to be the case in the not too distant future) it's going to be AWKWARD! :popcorn:



  • @Deadfast said in Turkish Coup:

    @dse Bordering? If Erdogan has his way, TurkeyErdogania will be a part of the EU.

    hmm, just when everyone is .*exiting?

    :trolleybus:

    Filed Under: ^[A-Za-zàâçéèêëîïôûùüÿñæœ]{2}exit



  • @Luhmann Wow, it's almost as if information becomes more complete over time and the number of fatalities when I typed that and the number known now can be different!

    Thank you, Luhmann, for reminding us all how the space-time continuum works.



  • Islamist Turkey might be a good thing for the fight against terrorism, actually. They might replace the terror cells as the Islamic center to which Muslims around the world turn for organization and leadership.



  • @cartman82 said in Turkish Coup:

    Islamist Turkey might be a good thing for the fight against terrorism, actually. They might replace the terror cells as the Islamic center to which Muslims around the world turn for organization and leadership.

    I am not sure if you are :trollface: ing.



  • @dse said in Turkish Coup:

    I am not sure if you are ing.

    Not completely.

    That's what happened with communist terrorism in the 1930-ies, once the Soviets took over.

    But then again, I'm not following this nearly close enough to give any kind of compelling analysis.



  • @cartman82 The guys that organised the coup were lead by a Gulen Movement, Gulen is a scholar that is exiled in the US at the moment.

    I didn't know anything about them until today, but having a quick look over wikipedia and some other sites, it seems that they are pretty much been kicked out of the turkish government for trying to expose Edrogan's corruption and authoritarianism.



  • @lucas1 said in Turkish Coup:

    @cartman82 The guys that organised the coup were lead by a Gulen Movement, Gulen is a scholar that is exiled in the US at the moment.

    I didn't know anything about them until today, but having a quick look over wikipedia and some other sites, it seems that they are pretty much been kicked out of the turkish government for trying to expose Edrogan's corruption and authoritarianism.

    We only have Erdogan's words that they were lead by someone affiliated with Gulen. It's somewhat unlikely, as most of Gulen's followers can be found in other parts of the government. Parts like the police, which were completely absent from yesterday's attempt.

    Which makes Gulen's involvement rather improbable.

    Also, Gulen is rather anti-violence and strives to change stuff through politics. He has very little contacts to the army.



  • @Rhywden It could very well be he is just blaming them, I didn't even know who they were until today.

    After the corruption allegations surfaced, Erdogan labelled it as a civilian coup against his government. Since then, Erdogan has shuffled, dismissed or jailed hundreds of police officers, judges, prosecutors and journalists in effort of - namely- fighting against the "Parallel State" within the Turkish state

    This is off of their wikipedia page.



  • @lucas1 Well, to be truthful, Gulen did tell his followers to "join the government and subvert it, in order to change it". It's just that he also told them to do it through legal means.

    This is further demonstrated by the fact that he founded schools to attract his followers. Schools which did not have formal religious classes, by the way. Instead the subject was called "Ethics". The latter part I find rather interesting in a religious leader.



  • @Rhywden Reading about them so far it seems they are the utter opposite of the extremists, which is a good thing.



  • @lucas1 Probably the reason why Gulen and Erdogan had their falling-out - Gulen's moderate positions must've made him look very much like a threat to The Caliph



  • @Rhywden said in Turkish Coup:

    Also, Gulen is rather anti-violence and strives to change stuff through politics. He has very little contacts to the army.

    And the military has a tradition of its own in deposing governments when they go down the Islamist path.



  • @blakeyrat
    I know thinking about space time before posting stupid remarks like that is too much to ask.



  • @Rhywden said in Turkish Coup:

    Gulen's involvement rather improbable.

    He replied during the coup that he was not involved and didn't approve it.



  • @Rhywden said in Turkish Coup:

    Which makes Gulen's involvement rather improbable.

    I'm sure that after a certain amount of rectothermal questioning, the regime will be able to prove that many of the coup participants were part of the Gulen movement.

    I'm fully expecting a rerun of Saddam's infamous Ba'ath party purge of 1979.



  • @boomzilla I think that is because the Ottoman Empire had their army reformed by Western advisers in the 18th and 19th century and I believe (from what I read) that the Turkish Army is what remains of that tradition.



  • @blakeyrat said in Turkish Coup:

    @Luhmann Wow, it's almost as if information becomes more complete over time and the number of fatalities when I typed that and the number known now can be different!
    Thank you, Luhmann, for reminding us all how the space-time continuum works.

    He should know this better, after all he used to be the necro guy before the crazy @fbmac took over the job



  • @cartman82 said in Turkish Coup:

    That's what happened with communist terrorism in the 1930-ies, once the Soviets took over.

    You do not understand how divided the Islamists factions are within themselves. There are Saddam-remains Terrorists (Syrian government, also backed by Iran and Russia) + Saudi-backed terrorists (Syrian opposition), Bin Laden terrorists, ISI/Pakistan-backed terrorists (have you forgotten Taliban and friends?), Khomeini terrorists (Hamas, et al). Then there are just plain good old terrorists. Only the latter currently does not have a state-sponsor, but that is what grass-root crazies are. Within Islam, Salafis are the main problem, they have an established ISIL-like government called Saudi Arabia, which indirectly makes them US/UK/EU-backed terrorists!

    You only need Trump, then have a war between all these factions, then bring in Russia and unstable Turkey, hehe that will not be fun for Europe



  • @dse said in Turkish Coup:

    @blakeyrat said in Turkish Coup:

    @Luhmann Wow, it's almost as if information becomes more complete over time and the number of fatalities when I typed that and the number known now can be different!
    Thank you, Luhmann, for reminding us all how the space-time continuum works.

    He should know this better, after all he used to be the necro guy before the crazy @fbmac took over the job

    I passed the necromancer's mantle to @Tsaukpaetra, it's been a while for now.



  • @dse said in Turkish Coup:

    @cartman82 said in Turkish Coup:

    That's what happened with communist terrorism in the 1930-ies, once the Soviets took over.

    You do not understand how divided the Islamists factions are within themselves. There are Saddam-remains Terrorists (Syrian government, also backed by Iran and Russia) + Saudi-backed terrorists (Syrian opposition), Bin Laden terrorists, ISI/Pakistan-backed terrorists (have you forgotten Taliban and friends?), Khomeini terrorists (Hamas, et al). Then there are just plain good old terrorists. Only the latter currently does not have a state-sponsor, but that is what grass-root crazies are. Within Islam, Salafis are the main problem, they have an established ISIL-like government called Saudi Arabia, which indirectly makes them US/UK/EU-backed terrorists!

    You only need Trump, then have a war between all these factions, then bring in Russia and unstable Turkey, hehe that will not be fun for Europe

    We live in interesting times :(



  • @dse

    hehe that will not be fun for Europe

    Better off out ;-)

    The USA / UK support for Saudi Arabia is because we split that area between us after WWII


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @lucas1 said in Turkish Coup:

    @dse

    hehe that will not be fun for Europe

    Better off out ;-)

    Preeeeetty sure the UK is still part of Europe, whether or not it's part of the EU. Or were you thinking brexit would involve tugboats moving Great Britain off the coast of Florida to further solidify and symbolize the "special" relationship between the US and the UK?



  • @Dreikin said in Turkish Coup:

    Preeeeetty sure the UK is still part of Europe, whether or not it's part of the EU.

    With the new added benefit of French officials being able to point and say, 'Look at that lovely island over there, only a short boat trip away...'



  • @asdf said in Turkish Coup:

    No idea, but this coup certainly won't make it any better.

    Same faulty logic against #brexit.

    You see this steamy pile of shit on your plate.

    It's better to just eat around it, because if you try to remove it, you'll just get shit on your hands.


  • mod

    @xaade If the only tool you have to remove it is your tongue, probably for the best.



  • @dse said in Turkish Coup:

    Saudi Arabia, which indirectly makes them US/UK/EU-backed terrorists!

    Don't worry, Hillary and Obama course corrected on that.

    With the Fast and Furious 2: Middle East drift... they're all US backed now.


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