Love it or List it (the job that is)



  • So, I just started a new programming job with a company that has never made a software product before. I'm 30, with no formal education, and by far the most senior programmer here. The other guy is young, has worked here his whole professional life, and while very intelligent and enthusiastic, is mostly familiar with HTML/CSS with a little python and javascript.

    I got hired, initially, for one particular project. They had a few vague requirements when I started, and I've done the best I can to implement them. Where we are now is actually (in my opinion) pretty good progress (~3-5 kloc C++/Qt, Javascript/Angular, Python/Bottle/Django, PostgreSQL, Shell, Yocto, HTTP, SSL, and some low-level system I/O details) for the amount of time we've been on it (2.5 months). However, my boss is not seeing anywhere near the productivity he was expecting, or that he promised to his bosses.

    I've been tempted to buy copies of The Mythical Man Month and The Phoenix Project for him, but I'm afraid that I'm not going to finish my 90-day probationary period due to unreasonable expectations from my boss. They know that the business they're currently in isn't sustainable due to the way the world is heading, so they're trying to transition into a software house.

    There's also the matter that they think they're paying me absolutely top-dollar when previous places I've worked have billed my time at 3x what they're paying me, within the same geographical market.

    Do I buckle down and work my @55 off to get this done and try to make them happy so I have more time to elucidate on the typical way of software design, or do I find another job and wish them well?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    @55

    Oooh. Potty mouth.

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    the business they're currently in isn't sustainable

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    previous places I've worked have billed my time at 3x what they're paying me

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    do I find another job and wish them well?

    This isn't a particularly difficult decision.



  • @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    So, I just started a new programming job with a company that has never made a software product before. I'm 30, with no formal education, and by far the most senior programmer here. The other guy is young, has worked here his whole professional life, and while very intelligent and enthusiastic, is mostly familiar with HTML/CSS with a little python and javascript.

    What was compelling about their offer? Did you see something inspiring, or were you in need of a job? To me, this seems like it could be an interesting gig if I were 23, but as I've gotten older, I've become a lot more discriminating in choosing those for whom I work.

    I've been tempted to buy copies of The Mythical Man Month and The Phoenix Project for him, but I'm afraid that I'm not going to finish my 90-day probationary period due to unreasonable expectations from my boss. They know that the business they're currently in isn't sustainable due to the way the world is heading, so they're trying to transition into a software house.

    It's going to take time to effect political change and get management onboard with best practices and knowledge of how software is supposed to be built. These aren't exactly small changes, and with 2.5 months under your belt, do you expect to have the political clout to be able to pull that off in addition to fighting that deadline?

    There's also the matter that they think they're paying me absolutely top-dollar when previous places I've worked have billed my time at 3x what they're paying me, within the same geographical market.

    Is it worth it to be making 1/3 the pay? Is there a management position/stock options/pony/pot o' gold in the works for you if you manage to meet your deadline? Aren't you worried that by busting your ass now, you'll establish a pattern where they expect you to maintain that velocity?

    Do I buckle down and work my @55 off to get this done and try to make them happy so I have more time to elucidate on the typical way of software design, or do I find another job and wish them well?

    At your age (it feels weird saying this because I've only got a couple years on you), and with your experience level, I think the answer should be obvious. One other thing to keep in mind:

    2.5 months

    This is on the edge of still being an acceptable hole in your resumé if you'd like to forget this engagement ever happened. Whether it's better to rationalize a ~3 month gap in your work history or explain how you jumped from a sinking ship after about the same amount of time is a more difficult question.


  • sockdevs

    Speaking as someone notorious for working for Wtf Ltd around these parts, RUN. There is no good outcome here.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Stay, then create a Lounge thread so we can all marvel at the WTF.



  • ...



  • @Circuitsoft This is the internet. You can say "ass."


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @JazzyJosh said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    @Circuitsoft This is the internet.

    The internet is not a homogenous system with a unified rule of conduct. That said, reading here for 3 minutes would have demonstrated the lack of language censorship hereabouts.



  • @pydsigner It totally is

    :fishing_pole_and_fish:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @JazzyJosh
    I flagged you for your choice of words!

    Filed Under: Giving the mods work to do... I am the worst!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    5kLOC in less than 90 days for 2 people?

    That sounds suspiciously like unplanned development salad, unless there's an architect and designer off in the wings (which for a first development effort is unheard of).

    90 days should have been about enough to sit everybody down, determine what the hell the product is really supposed to do, what it all really means to the business at large, set all expectations appropriately, decide on a stack and internal processes, and maybe write Hello World.

    This company doesn't get software. That's okay, nobody does at first. It's not clear that it's an entire discipline, not just some standalone skills. If they don't want to learn, and their survival truly depends on pivoting to be a software house, they're fucked.



  • So you have an opportunity to become head developer of a software development shop(if you're the only real developer), which would be a career get.

    Do you think they are ever going to be a software development shop worth a damn?

    Because without management familiar with the industry and only two developers I wouldn't bet on it.



  • They want to be. Maybe I could convince them to hire a PM familiar with software? Also, I'm getting married in a month and a half and am trying to limit major changes to my life until after the event.



  • The only upside of the job seem to be that you are running your own show on a green field project. If this is something you'd like to see throgh, I'd push on.

    If the management doesn't trust your judgment and creates a hostile situation, then go. No project is worth dealing with that.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    work my @55 off

    You can curse around here. There are but a few delicate hothouse flowers and they can fuck off.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Polygeekery said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    work my @55 off

    You can curse around here. There are but a few delicate hothouse flowers and they can fuck off.

    I don't mind cursing so long as it doesn't detract from the conversation.

    I just can't really do it myself, thanks to Censor. Of course, that means creative happens, so fsck tacos!!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @JazzyJosh said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    This is the internet. You can say "ass."

    But can I say “B•••••m”?


  • area_deu

    @Polygeekery said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    @Circuitsoft said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    work my @55 off

    You can curse around here. There are but a few delicate hothouse flowers and they can fuck off.

    Huh? I don't recall anyone here ever complaining about the way I talk.



  • @dkf said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    “B•••••m”

    that's why we have :flag_be:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Polygeekery Looooook, I'm wilting!



  • @aliceif said in Love it or List it (the job that is):

    Huh? I don't recall anyone here ever complaining about the way I talk.

    They probably do it behind your back, then, Just, um, thought you might want some nice paranoia?

    Anyway you talk just fine.

    (now that the server isn't down midpost. Though I expect it will be again shortly, as it often is, rather like the refresh message that pops up right after you refreshed because you got one.)


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