Fuck You, Look At Me
-
Fine, I'll start one of these. If only because I'm probably ranting too much in the Status thread.
RULES
- If you're going to tell a story, you must use talking heads
- I don't want any specific, strict rules for the thread. We're all adults here. Instead of a bunch of laws, let's just keep it to the spirit of this XKCD:
-
FIRST RANT. Because this has happened way too often this week.
I work at a shop that works with Navision, a mid-level Microsoft (owned) ERP. It has it's own programming language, C/AL. It looks and feels and acts OLD-- like QBasic fucked COBOL or something.
But really, a programming language is a programming language. It's all just syntax and quirks. Even having worked at the company for two years, I've really only had, maybe, two man-days worth of hands-on-keyboard experience with the language, and a couple weeks of reading docs.
Which is why it's frustrating when this happens:
ohai Lorne the project you assigned me needs to do X in Navision but I don't know how
Neither do I. I'm relying on your 10 years of experience in Navision to figure out how.
{hours later}
Done.
(sanity checks) But it doesn't do X (in this case sorting by a field on another table)
Can't be done so I skipped sorting.
Really? It can't be done in Navision?
No.Now, knowing that the Microsoft documentation is shit, and that the language is obscure enough that Google usually isn't much help, I take her for her word. But then during alpha testing, the lack of sorting is bugging me. And I get curious.
(Me, spending 30 minutes reading the shitty Microsoft docs, and a couple threads on the Internet's only support forum for Navision, "Mibuso" http://forum.mibuso.com/categories/c41)
(Reads posts by other people with same issue) Well fuck that's why it doesn't work. And there's a workaround.
(spends 30 minutes learning how to implement that, and does so) And it's done.!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
- If you're going to tell a story, you must use talking heads
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
She's past the point of giving a fuck. It's kind of nice, really. You just let go.
Filed under: It's especially nice when you've established yourself as an expert so no one questions you when you say things are impossible., Until a do-gooder brown nose like yourself comes along and rocks the boat.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
Some people are experienced : they are doing the same crappy work they've been doing for a long time.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
Some people have 10 years of experience. Others have 1 year of experience 10 times.
Apparently she has 1 hour of experience 20,000 times.
-
This is my new password, change it please. It is 12 characters long, rememberable, and has non-alphanumeric, capital letter and numerical in it.
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower case
fuck, you know if someone wants to hack this shit and obviously reads this stupid rule, you have reduced the number of bits in the information, right? on average good rememberable password length is 8 long, adding these rules WILL NOT force me to also increase the length, so pigeon hole
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower case
Fuck it, Ok
Ok now here is my 8 digit pin number
your pin number has one digit replicated 3 times
that is because to remember it I envision it is typed on a keypad, genius. They are different characters that happen to be on the same dial
your pin number has one digit replicated 3 times
how about you give everyone, the most secure 8-digit code? and what is it btw?
-
@dse said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower case
how about you give everyone, the most secure 8-digit code? and what is it btw? Your new password is ||11IIll.
-
@da-Doctah said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@dse said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower case
how about you give everyone, the most secure 8-digit code? and what is it btw? Your new password is ||11IIll.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
Because the lazy fuctard will not be punished for it and she knows it.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
I guess
just couldn't be bothered to implement a shitty hack and thought she could get away with telling you it's impossible. I've told managers "It can't be done" before when the solution they proposed was both stupid and would have required a lot of ugly hacks. I would never be stupid enough to use that excuse in front of a technical person, though.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
!!!!!!!!!! Why the fuck is it that I, who has FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less experience with this, can get this shit researched, written and DONE in less time that it took for the senior dev to flail around failing to do anything.
Because it is part of the human condition in that the longer you have been doing the same thing, the less inclined you are to think it can be done a better / different way.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Mibuso
Their forum looks pretty nice. What does it run on?
-
@aliceif I was going to suggest "hamsters" but it looks like it's just Vanilla forums (the page source confirms it).
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
If you're going to tell a story, you must use talking heads
: Hold tight
: Wait 'til the party's over
: Hold tight
: We're in for nasty weather
: There has got to be a way
: BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE
-
@asdf said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
I've told managers "It can't be done" before when the solution they proposed was both stupid and would have required a lot of ugly hacks.
Very this. I've learned the hard way that saying "it's technically possible but it has drawbacks x, y, and z and for reasons a, b, and c it is a terrible idea and it may take us years to repay the technical debt," all they will hear is "yes, we can do that." Even people I think of as smart (actually more so, because being smart comes with a certain conceit.)
-
: 100% CPU
: kill it
...
: 100% CPU
: kill it
...
:
-
@dse said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
This is my new password, change it please. It is 12 characters long, rememberable, and has non-alphanumeric, capital letter and numerical in it.
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower caseOracle
: Your password cannot have the same character repeated twice in a row.
Argh!
-
@devjoe said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@dse said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
This is my new password, change it please. It is 12 characters long, rememberable, and has non-alphanumeric, capital letter and numerical in it.
nope, it has to have at least 2 from non-alphanumeric (i.e. $<>#@%), 2 numeric, 2 capital letters and 2 lower caseOracle
: Your password cannot have the same character repeated twice in a row.
Argh!So
bookkeeperandmississippiare both out of the question then?
-
@da-Doctah said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Your new password is ||11IIll.
That has two digits in a row.
-
@error I once played a multiplayer 4X game where I named all my ships stuff like ```'`''``'`.
-
Your PIN cannot contain multiple digits in a row. Please enter an 8 character PIN consisting of numbers.
-
@ben_lubar said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Your PIN cannot contain multiple digits in a row. Please enter an 8 character PIN consisting of numbers. Please enter a PIN consisting of 11 distinct numeric digits.
Filed under: I just realized that that joke works in any base* :headasplode:, * At least any positive integer base.
-
@error said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Please enter a PIN consisting of 11 distinct numeric digits.٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩5
-
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@error said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Please enter a PIN consisting of 11 distinct numeric digits.٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩5
/^\d{11}$/.test( '٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩5' ) false
-
@error
5and٥are distinct digits. It can be seen just by looking at them.The fact that they represent the same number OTOH....
-
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
5 and ٥ are distinct digits
No "crappy non-Unicode aware whatever" rant? I am disappoint.
-
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
The fact that they represent the same number OTOH....
Hang on - what does
/^\d{10}$/.test( '٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩' )return? If that too returnsfalseI'd be very disappoint.
-
@aliceif said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Mibuso
Their forum looks pretty nice. What does it run on?
@JBert said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@aliceif I was going to suggest "hamsters" but it looks like it's just Vanilla forums (the page source confirms it).
It supports notifications, "answers", responsive design and has a composer that works in mobile view.
In other words, it doesn't exist. It must be a mass hallucination. There's no such thing as a forum that can do that without fifteen layers of AJAX and the need for it's own server stack.
-
@NedFodder said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
If you're going to tell a story, you must use talking heads
: Hold tight
: Wait 'til the party's over
: Hold tight
: We're in for nasty weather
: There has got to be a way
: BURNING DOWN THE HOUSEThat's not my beautiful wife.
Oh wait there she is.
Filed under: I love her very much (SHE KNOWS!)
-
@error said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@ben_lubar said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Your PIN cannot contain multiple digits in a row. Please enter an 8 character PIN consisting of numbers. Please enter a PIN consisting of 11 distinct numeric digits.1234567890
-
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
The fact that they represent the same number OTOH....
Hang on - what does
/^\d{10}$/.test( '٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩' )return? If that too returnsfalseI'd be very disappoint. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/RegExp
\d
Matches a digit character in the basic Latin alphabet. Equivalent to [0-9].For example, /\d/ or /[0-9]/ matches "2" in "B2 is the suite number".
Filed under: Actually I didn't see any reference to
\din the official ECMAScript specification.
: added requisite talking 
-
@error said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
basic Latin alphabet
@error said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
For example, /\d/ or /[0-9]/ matches "2" in "B2 is the suite number".
ry: [0-9]are in fact arabic, not Latin... Latin would be[IVXLCDM](and possibly their overbar versions)...
-
@PJH Take it up with Mozilla or ISO/IEC.
-
Please enter a PIN consisting of 11 distinct numeric digits.Sorry to point out the lack of loophole :(
-
@PJH said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
So bookkeeper and mississippi are both out of the question then?
Also
1@<$kjgqWTFjhas20Xhhf)because security
-
Wonder if this should be in Lounge. Don't know. Fuck it. I thought "Look at Me" was. Fuck it.
Anyways:
Crunch time for the project. It needs to be in the deployment team's hands tomorrow at noon. I still spent this morning finishing code that wasn't done.
Build to lab. First report is that menu links don't work.
Dev comes to me
Lorne this isn't working.
You're right, it isn't.
Why?
You're the lead dev. You tell me. Let me know when you find out.
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Lorne this isn't working.
You're right, it isn't.
Why?
You're the lead dev. You tell me. Let me know when you find out.
: Issue closed, by design, WONTFIX. I, for one, am getting tired of hearing about this.
-
Yet another 12 hour day to do the coding, testing and bugfixing that
didn't do before declaring the project done.Today:
Bug found. Open the list page. Click on an item. Click on Special Properties. The Special Properties for that item do not show. Plz fix.
(half hour later) Lorne you wrote too much code I don't know how to read it. Here are all the codes you changed. Attachment: diff reportNow what I should have said is: OF COURSE I WROTE A TON OF CODE, BECAUSE YOU FUCKING DIDN'T! You didn't complete 80% of the features you were supposed to. Shit doesn't work. And since there's a hard deadline of TUESDAY AT NOON, if I didn't write this code, the project wouldn't be done. Again. This 5 day project has taken you, on and off, FOUR FUCKING MONTHS, and it still isn't done to completion. I've learned your fucking code so I could rewrite it so it'll work. You can goddamn open one fucking line of code written by me and work it out. Use a goddamn piece of paper and pen if you have to.
What I did say was:
{open List Page properties, set Item Link to use "ItemID" like it should instead of "Primary Key ID" like it shouldn't. Save. Screenshot the error} It has nothing to do with my code. You set up the page wrong. {CC boss +1}Of note: That was in Navision. Again. And before that moment I had literally never once in my entire life set up a linked page like that. But the error on the Properties was glaringly obvious.
At least it's all in QA tomorrow.
-
Status: achieved full "fuck it" mode.
QA that was supposed to be complete by noon (to hand off for deployment) wasn't done until 5:40pm. Why? You guessed it. More shit that was marked "done" that wasn't. Thinks like "hyperlinks should still work" and "don't fuck up the data".
And again more with this shit:
QA report! Opening "Thing List" and typing in any one of the fields triggers "Save Record". That creates an incomplete "Thing Record". When I complete the Thing Record, it now thinks it's an UPDATE not and INSERT, so writes a "Thing Archive" record.
Yeah, that is weird. Hey, Navision developer, can you look at your Thing List form and make sure it isn't prematurely saving?
Lorne you wrote code in Thing Archive I don't understand it must have broken things
wtf? Again, I had to write code because you marked things as "complete" that weren't. And the code I wrote is in the ARCHIVE. I'm talking about the List form. Your list form. It's saving prematurely. The errant Archive record is just a symptom.
it works i don't know your code
(seeing it's already 3:30pm and deployment guy is just sitting there twiddling thumbs waiting) Fuck it.
{5 second google of RTC C/AL form insert after first field... get Microsoft documentation}
It's a standard property on forms called "DelayedInsert". If NO (default) inserts as soon as you type in any field. If YES (not default) waits until you completely fill out form. This is a STANDARD NAVISION FEATURE. That you, with 10 years experience, should know and me-- who learned it 30 seconds ago-- shouldn't know-- or have to know. It's fixed now. {screenshots}I then spend half an hour clearing the shit data out of the archive.
Come 5:40pm, the deployment's finally ready. Answer any questions. Walk around like a zombie because I'm fucking done. I spent all day, including my lunch time, putting out bugs and fires and writing code that wasn't done and fixing things that should have been spotted within 5 seconds of looking at the error log. I physically cannot stay until 9pm. The team has what they need. I've already put in 4 twelve hour days in a row-- fixing and writing code and skipping my lunch. Nope. Not today. You guys have my cell phone, call me if anything explodes, I'm going home to collapse.
(sidenote: I did go home and veg. Which is why I'm writing this at 9:40pm)
-
Just checked work email (something I almost never do after hours).
Happened to notice an email at 9:45pm, to the customer, saying that deployment didn't go well and we need tomorrow to fix it.
Fucking hell, after all that push, and it's STILL NOT FUCKING WORKING?
Not looking forward to tomorrow.
-
-
This post is deleted!
-
Okay, I'll be the first to admit that some bugs are insidious and fairly hard to find. Even the bug in question in the post ended up being a noodle scratcher. But... it isn't the bug itself, it's how one goes about finding it.
[our customer] Bug report on new system. Old system, we could put a coupon code in the URL, and the coupon would be automagically added. http://example.com/product/bike?couponcode=50off. Now it doesn't work.
(Repro the issue) huh, you're right. I'll pass this on to a developer.Since this is an upgrade project (major version), it does to a core developer instead of being handled by support.
Sometime later (today):
Lorne I don't know what's going on or how to fix it
What happens?
I go to http://example.com/product/bike?couponcode=50offand the code to add a coupon fires, but then the page is blank
Well, if it is going to product page, and it's blank, then the page isn't getting the item number (in this case, the item ID is bike). Check URL Rewrite
I did, and I added the coupon code rule, but still nothing.
I didn't think the URL rewrite rules needed to be changed for querystrings. We use "Append Query String", so the ?couponcode=50offshould automagically be added.
...
Let's look at the code...
Show me.
(opens http://example.com/product/bike?couponcode=50off)
BREAKPOINT! COUPON CODE! COUPON CODE IS SET!
BREAKPOINT! PRODUCT PAGE! UH-OH, ITEM ID IS MISSING!
And what happens before and in between those breakpoints?
I dunno
It would be... very... good... to know that. What is the querystring at the second breakpoint
computer: ?couponcode=50off
yes, coupon code is there
No. URL Rewrite. The querystring should be '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'. What's the Querystring at the coupon code breakpoint?
I dunno
computer: ?couponcode=50off
yes, coupon code is there
No. URL Rewrite. The querystring should be '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'. Where is the coupon code function located?
In Global.asax (note for non-.Net people... it's a framework function that fires as soon as a request starts, before being handed off to the specific page)
We have a lot of code in there. Is anything else doing anything suspicious?
I dunno.
Well, is the URL coming into .Net ok?
I dunno
{walk him through URL Rewrite module logs-- yes, it is rewritten to '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff' as expected}
{sigh} Put a breakpoint right at the top of this Global.asax function. This is effectively the entry point in to the entire system.
BREAKPOINT!
Now what is the querystring, before ANY of our code runs?
'?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'.... oh, the ID is there
Put a watch on the Request.QueryStringText variable
WATCHING LIKE A PERVERT!
Now start stepping
{step}
WATCH-O-TRON SEZ: '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'
{step}
WATCH-O-TRON SEZ: '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'
{step}
WATCH-O-TRON SEZ: '?id=bike&couponcode=50ff'
{step}
OMFG WATCH-O-TRON SEZ: '?couponcode=50ff'
So right there. That line. Before the coupon logic. The line that says "Get the RAW URI", then "check for decryption", then "Rewrite URL with decrypted". Does "Raw" seem suspicious to you?
Maybe?
As in, we just saw some other lines that used the AbsoluteURI.
Maybe?
Look at the values of those two.
Raw = http://example.com/products/bike?couponcode=50off, and Absolute =http://example.com?products.aspx?id=bike&couponcode=50off
Yes. So if that querystring manipulation uses the Raw, will it have ?id=bike
................................ no?
Exactly. Talk to 
about this. This is a bug in the base product and I have no idea why the code is the way it is. I didn't even think we used encrypted querystrings anymore.So again, the bug was in an unknown part of the system where something weird was happening-- but it was SO EASY TO FIND by just narrowing down where the data was getting corrupted, and stepping through until the corruption showed it's ugly, corrupted face.
-
@Lorne-Kates You mean... you used competence to debug an issue? Whatever next?
-
@Lorne-Kates Fixed the markdown for you.
-
-
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Unpossible.
It might be like what happens when you take a dog that insists on always humping your leg to the vet.
-
@dkf said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
@Lorne-Kates said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
Unpossible.
It might be like what happens when you take a dog that insists on always humping your leg to the vet.
? : Your dog is so pent up, why are you letting her stay so frustrated?
-
I, uh, don't want to know how you relieve their frustration...
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Funny Stuff Thread™:
Full disclosure: I treat my bitches well
-
@anotherusername said in Fuck You, Look At Me:
I, uh, don't want to know how you relieve their frustration...
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Funny Stuff Thread™:
Full disclosure: I treat my bitches well
Easy enough, they clearly desire certain experiences, so I merely do my best to provide them and sate their needs. It's usually pretty fun too.
Oh sorry, you said "don't". Well, now you know anyways, instead of merely imagining it.
: 
