Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS



  • Well, this was a giant pile of fail.

    WSUS (Windows Server Update Services) is the way you centralise the download and deployment of Windows updates on an AD Domain so you don't have each individual machine chewing up internet bandwidth.

    There was recently a series of updates to WSUS itself to support the Win 7/8/9 -> Windows 10 upgrade packages which appear in the 'upgrade' channel in WSUS. I already had the Upgrade channel selected so had been seeing these packages well before that but no machine was calling for them so I hadn't approved any for installation on the clients.

    Earlier this week machines started calling for them so I approved the packages. 160 GB of stuff started to download onto the WSUS server. Came back a bit later and it was showing a download segment at 100%, and then later still 100%. The queue was jammed.
    I tried everything reasonable including unapproving the updates, restarting WSUS, restarting BITS, clearing the BITS jobs manually (they re-added, downloaded and then froze again at 100% :facepalm: ) and running the server clean-up wizard which completed cheerfully but otherwise did nothing useful.

    Now I had machines waiting on a hell of a lot of updates because the queue was throughly wedged with the broken Win 10 upgrade packages.

    The Event Log was very helpful:

    Event 10032, Windows Server Update Services
    The server is failing to download some updates.

    A quick look online showed that as I had the Upgrade channel selected from the start the Win 10 upgrade packages had set some metadata in my WSUS database when they first appeared...before the hotfixes that added WSUS support for them. This corrupt metadata had broken everything when they finally got approved. The hotfix only helps if 'upgrades' is synced after the hotfix.

    :wtf: :facepalm:

    One SQL script from a kind soul on MSDN to fix my database later and everything should be OK? Nope, turns out while they won't break everything now they won't actually deploy to the clients as WSUS 3.2 is not supported for Win 10 Upgrades.
    I'm forced to use WSUS 3.2 as I'm on Server 2008 R2 which is supposedly still in support until next year.


    So, Microsoft broke my WSUS server for upgrades that I can't even use anyway even though my platform is still in support. Fuck you very much :anger:

  • sockdevs

    @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    So, Microsoft broke my WSUS server for upgrades that I can't even use anyway even though my platform is still in support. Fuck you very much

    Man, MicroSloth it taking their new policy of user hostility to epic extremes......



  • Now that Windows has switched to a "rolling release" model with mandatory updates, I wonder if Microsoft intends to some day fix the pile of crap that is Windows Update or if we'll have to live with it forever.



  • @anonymous234 said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Now that Windows has switched to a "rolling release" model with mandatory updates, I wonder if Microsoft intends to some day fix the pile of crap that is Windows Update

    Since that you now have Ubuntu on Windows, your only hope is for them to start using dpkg to push Windows updates.



  • @accalia Let's communicate our disdain by typing their name incorrectly, perhaps replacing "soft" with "sloth", an animal known for being slow, or perhaps using a dollar sign to replace some of the letters to remind the user of greed!



  • @blakeyrat
    So Mïçrøßft is fine?


  • area_can

    @blakeyrat yes, let's!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat it was funny, for all of twenty minutes, twenty years ago. It's another of those jokes that moved beyond overdone-meme and into the Joke Afterlife. Or as I think of it, WTDWTF Meme Time.



  • @blakeyrat I prefer to use the original spelling : Micro-Soft

    :giggity:



  • Every time I think I should stop being a luddite and upgrade to Win10 something new comes up. :neutral_face:



  • @Zecc None of this has anything to do with you, though, most likely.



  • @Zecc said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Every time I think I should stop being a luddite and upgrade to Win10 something new comes up. :neutral_face:

    On the whole Windows 10 is very nice to use. The (literally in some cases) half-baked metro weirdness is annoying but if you're on a domain or have a version where you can set local GPOs then you can quickly customise out the rest of the minor annoyances. I wouldn't really want to go back to 7 now, 10 even feels faster on the same hardware.

    @Magus said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @Zecc None of this has anything to do with you, though, most likely.

    Definitely, this is only on the domain admin side if you're using older, but still supposedly supported, servers.



  • @blakeyrat said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    or perhaps using a dollar sign to replace some of the letters to remind the user of greed!

    I've just looked at the cost of moving to Server 2012 for all our stuff. It's eyewatering, they've really made it difficult for SMEs with the new licencing. They're good products, but ouch.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    The (literally in some cases) half-baked metro weirdness is annoying

    Windows 10 doesn't feel that inconsistent to me, but that may be because I had to use Windows 8 before.



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Windows 10 doesn't feel that inconsistent to me, but that may be because I had to use Windows 8 before.

    The Beast Rabban / Feyd Rautha gambit!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Arantor I mean, I use M$ as a shorthand for Microsoft, just because nobody's gonna mistake what I mean and it gets the point across. But yeah the silly Micro$loft stuff died... years... ago...


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @boomzilla said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Windows 10 doesn't feel that inconsistent to me, but that may be because I had to use Windows 8 before.

    The Beast Rabban / Feyd Rautha gambit!

    Damn it. Now I want to reread the Dune series.


    Filed under: True story: I made it to book 16 and QUIT IN DISGUST when they started retconning the first book.



  • @Magus said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @Zecc None of this has anything to do with you, though, most likely.

    Sure, but it's just not earning them any confidence points, that's all.



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    The (literally in some cases) half-baked metro weirdness is annoying

    Windows 10 doesn't feel that inconsistent to me, but that may be because I had to use Windows 8 before.

    My big gripe is the fact that it's half-and-half in places. Open the control panel and you get the windows control panel in Explorer which is kind of the same as the Metro 'PC Settings'. Why have two? If you click on the Network Settings in the system tray you get Metro things instead of the control panel version and it's harder to use.

    There's 'Programs and Features' still in the control panel which works but also a Metro 'Apps & Features' which lists all the same programs but generally doesn't work.

    It just feels like they decided to replace everything with Metro style dialogs and then gave up half way through.

    Also, I liked being able to start a VPN by clicking the system tray Network Settings and then selecting the VPN. Now it brings up a totally worthless Metro dialog and you have to select the VPN again. What the hell is the point of that.

    It's only little niggles really, but it's a bit of a shame almost they didn't cook it for longer.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    It's only little niggles really, but it's a bit of a shame almost they didn't cook it for longer.

    Win10 is definitely better than 8.1, but there's a few places where it could have been improved further. Virtually all of them centre around shitty Metro apps and the Windows Store (no, I don't want to rate your crappy app!); everything else seems quite reasonable. Though I'm also comparing with Win10 desktop experience with the Win8.1 laptop experience; maybe some of the issues on the laptop are to do with annoying gestures overriding things?



  • @sloosecannon said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @Arantor I mean, I use M$ as a shorthand for Microsoft, just because nobody's gonna mistake what I mean and it gets the point across. But yeah the silly Micro$loft stuff died... years... ago...

    I use it occasionally because I know how much blakey loves it.


  • sockdevs

    @sloosecannon said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @Arantor I mean, I use M$ as a shorthand for Microsoft, just because nobody's gonna mistake what I mean and it gets the point across. But yeah the silly Micro$loft stuff died... years... ago...

    i'm bringing it back baby!

    :guitar:



  • @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    WSUS (Windows Server Update Services) is the way you centralise the download and deployment of Windows updates on an AD Domain so you don't have each individual machine chewing up internet bandwidth.

    That's one way to do it.

    I didn't do it that way, having convinced myself early on that Windows Update was indeed just a giant pile of fail to which minimizing exposure was the way to go. Instead, I'm using the third-party WSUS Offline Update, primarily designed to allow system builders, repair techs or airgapped machine users to apply updates to Winboxen that don't have an Internet connection.

    Works just fine online as well. I have a scheduled task on the DC that invokes about three lines of cmd script to update WSUSOU itself and the master package set, and client machines invoke another few lines from their shutdown scripts to pick up the updates from the DC. This arrangement has been quietly and effectively updating my 120 school workstations for about ten years now.

    WSUS Offline Update fetches the update packages using wget instead of the over-engineered yet somehow under-designed BITS, and applies them to machines using wusa.exe instead of the failure-prone wuauserv. I don't know why that's more reliable (they use the same underlying API, allegedly) but it is.



  • @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    It just feels like they decided to replace everything with Metro style dialogs and then gave up half way through.

    I wouldn't say 'gave up'. I'd say it's one intern doing things when they can! It started in Win8. Each successive OS has had a couple more. By the time we get to Windows42, they should be done.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @flabdablet said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I don't know why that's more reliable

    Because the people who wrote wget know what they're doing, and the people who wrote BITS are… ummm… less confidence inspiring


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @flabdablet said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I don't know why that's more reliable

    Fact of computing. Anything with "intelligent" or "smart" in its name isn't



  • @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    My big gripe is the fact that it's half-and-half in places. Open the control panel and you get the windows control panel in Explorer which is kind of the same as the Metro 'PC Settings'. Why have two? If you click on the Network Settings in the system tray you get Metro things instead of the control panel version and it's harder to use.

    The goal is to have everything in Settings and get rid of the legacy control panel, but they're doing that bit by bit and not simply removing the old one, which most people would have expected from them.

    @dkf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Win10 is definitely better than 8.1, but there's a few places where it could have been improved further. Virtually all of them centre around shitty Metro apps and the Windows Store (no, I don't want to rate your crappy app!); everything else seems quite reasonable.

    Honestly, when it comes to the UI stuff, its that way by necessity. Every blogger in the world gets more and more comfortable each month with just typing out their blog on an iPad and ditching anything PC-related. If they didn't handle touch, they'd be dead. With 8, they tried everything and went as far as they could, to see what people would put up with if it made the experience more relevant. Now that they know, they're working on getting 10 to fill that place properly. There wasn't really any other way to do it.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Jaloopa They should have called that system the Smart Highly-Intelligent Transfer tool…



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Windows 10 doesn't feel that inconsistent to me, but that may be because I had to use Windows 8 before.

    I'm stuck on 10 at work (never used 8 ). It's not terrible, I guess, but I barely use it — Office, and VNC to a Linux box where I do my real work. The thing I notice, though, and I'm not sure whether it's Win10 or the applications' fault, I've never seen so many "$program has stopped working" dialogs since — I dunno — maybe XP, maybe even earlier. By far the worst, though, is Edge; that needs to die in a thermonuclear fire.

    Have a few Edge windows open, close the laptop to take it to a meeting or go home for the night, a few of the windows have randomly vanished. Close Edge and relaunch it; it restores about 3-ish of your windows, randomly selected from all the Edge windows you ever had open, not necessarily the ones that were open when you shut it down. Look at Task Manager, and see Edge processes for all the windows/tabs you ever had, consuming memory, CPU, and network, but most of them have no windows and no way (that I can find) to recreate the windows or interact with the processes other than killing them in Task Manager.



  • @dkf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Because the people who wrote wget know what they're doing, and the people who wrote BITS are… ummm… less confidence inspiring

    but... isn't wget open-source-crap ?
    :confused:



  • @HardwareGeek said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I've never seen so many "$program has stopped working"

    Where $program == "Video driver". Fucking Intel + Lenovo.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @HardwareGeek said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    The thing I notice, though, and I'm not sure whether it's Win10 or the applications' fault, I've never seen so many "$program has stopped working" dialogs since — I dunno — maybe XP, maybe even earlier.

    I don't have that problem. The most annoying thing for me personally is that the new desktop UI has almost as many glitches as Linux desktops had 10 years ago, if not more. Often, when I open my Surface, the screen is rotated by 180 degrees, or Windows are suddenly only 1/4th of their original size and the window border is missing, but the window manager thinks they're maximized. (The latter is most annoying when you're trying to use the touchscreen, because you can't fix it without using the touchpad or a mouse.)

    @HardwareGeek said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    By far the worst, though, is Edge; that needs to die in a thermonuclear fire.

    QFT. The UI looks nice, touch-friendly and pen-friendly. Then I started to use it and noticed that it's the buggiest piece of shit I've had to use in years.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Cursorkeys said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    My big gripe is the fact that it's half-and-half in places. Open the control panel and you get the windows control panel in Explorer which is kind of the same as the Metro 'PC Settings'. Why have two? If you click on the Network Settings in the system tray you get Metro things instead of the control panel version and it's harder to use.

    Probably because they didn't want to wait to release it until they had the entire control panel converted.

    With the November update and fast ring builds, they've added a lot more stuff to Settings that used to be in Control Panel.



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I don't have that problem. The most annoying thing for me personally is that the new desktop UI has almost as many glitches as Linux desktops had 10 years ago, if not more. Often, when I open my Surface, the screen is rotated by 180 degrees, or Windows are suddenly only 1/4th of their original size and the window border is missing, but the window manager thinks they're maximized. (The latter is most annoying when you're trying to use the touchscreen, because you can't fix it without using the touchpad or a mouse.)

    I'm on an upgraded third party weird machine, and it doesn't do any of those things...



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    it's the buggiest piece of shit I've had to use in years

    That's because it's all sandboxed, and some of the sand is leaking out into your CPU.


  • sockdevs

    @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I don't have that problem. The most annoying thing for me personally is that the new desktop UI has almost as many glitches as Linux desktops had 10 years ago, if not more. Often, when I open my Surface, the screen is rotated by 180 degrees, or Windows are suddenly only 1/4th of their original size and the window border is missing, but the window manager thinks they're maximized. (The latter is most annoying when you're trying to use the touchscreen, because you can't fix it without using the touchpad or a mouse.)

    odd, i don't have that problem at all.

    what i do have is the touch keyboard ransomly deciding it isn't attached until i rip the touchcover off and reattach it....



  • @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    what i do have is the touch keyboard ransomly deciding it isn't attached until i rip the touchcover off and reattach it....

    IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE AND REATTACH THE TOUCHCOVER I WILL MURDER YOUR CAT


  • sockdevs

    @NedFodder said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    what i do have is the touch keyboard ransomly deciding it isn't attached until i rip the touchcover off and reattach it....

    IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE AND REATTACH THE TOUCHCOVER I WILL MURDER YOUR CAT

    good, but now try it with more cut and paste letters from the latest cosmopolitan magazine.



  • @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @NedFodder said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    what i do have is the touch keyboard ransomly deciding it isn't attached until i rip the touchcover off and reattach it....

    IF YOU DO NOT REMOVE AND REATTACH THE TOUCHCOVER I WILL MURDER YOUR CAT

    good, but now try it with more cut and paste letters from the latest cosmopolitan magazine.

    some others


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @accalia My Asus Transformer Tab does that too. It's a real pain in the butt (especially when I'm using the USB port on the keyboard!)



  • @blakeyrat said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @accalia Let's communicate our disdain by typing their name incorrectly, perhaps replacing "soft" with "sloth", an animal known for being slow, or perhaps using a dollar sign to replace some of the letters to remind the user of greed!

    No, I'll zalgo it because M̛͉̰͐̀ȉ̧̲̱ͨ̄̔c͔͖̝̩̗̦̙ͤ̓̎r̨̭̲̦̊̈́͐͂o̴̬̹̟͕̼̠̬͌̏̇s̞ͧ̍ͥ͘ô̶f͎̦͖̗̭̽̌͒t̼̩͠ is evil.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Magus said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I'm on an upgraded third party weird machine, and it doesn't do any of those things...

    So third-party systems work better than Microsoft's own hardware. :facepalm:

    @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    what i do have is the touch keyboard ransomly deciding it isn't attached until i rip the touchcover off and reattach it....

    I had that on the Surface Pro 3, haven't experienced it on the Pro 4 so far.

    Oh, and if you have a Surface Dock and still use WiFi, make sure to disable the Surface Dock Ethernet adapter. Otherwise, your WiFi will start disconnecting at random intervals as soon as you attach your dock.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    your WiFi will start disconnecting at random intervals as soon as you attach your dock.

    My Wifi disconnects at random intervals without a dock. Takes a full Disable-enable cycle for it to start working again.

    Then again, it is Intel wifi, so who knows?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Tsaukpaetra It gets worse when the dock is attached, though. I think there are two separate issues, one with the Intel driver and one with the Ethernet adapter driver.



  • @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    So third-party systems work better than Microsoft's own hardware.

    Seems like it. I want a Surface Book, which probably fares better, but I'd have to find a good reason not to use a Yoga 2 Pro. At this point, I don't honestly believe there is a good enough reason to get me to get rid of it.



  • @Magus said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    Seems like it. I want a Surface Book, which probably fares better, but I'd have to find a good reason not to use a Yoga 2 Pro. At this point, I don't honestly believe there is a good enough reason to get me to get rid of it.

    Only reason I can think of is the Surface has a stylus. The Yoga only uses fingers.


  • sockdevs

    @asdf said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    I had that on the Surface Pro 3

    you too then. i never upgraded to the 4

    the 3 still works, even if it does have that line of color distortion from the heatpipe permanently burned into the LEDs



  • @dcon Which is, honestly, a compelling point. I used the inking support in 8, and was completely amazed at how good it was. And I've seen what they're planning for the anniversary update that's on its way. I really need a device that supports ink...


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    i never upgraded to the 4

    I wouldn't have done it either, but my father offered my half of the original retail price for my used Pro 3, so I had a good excuse. ;)

    The new stylus and Touch Cover are a lot better than the old ones.

    @accalia said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    even if it does have that line of color distortion from the heatpipe permanently burned into the LEDs

    I'm glad my Pro 3 didn't exhibit that issue o.O



  • @Magus said in Windows 10 upgrade packages break WSUS:

    @dcon Which is, honestly, a compelling point. I used the inking support in 8, and was completely amazed at how good it was. And I've seen what they're planning for the anniversary update that's on its way. I really need a device that supports ink...

    My very first touch machine was the X61 - fingers sucked, had to use the stylus. I miss the stylus... I have a Yoga(11) and Yoga2Pro(13).


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