Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down
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@pydsigner said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Saying that there is no central control of the stdlib is patently false.
Well, they're all indexed on the same server I guess. But there's no quality control.
@pydsigner said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
You're right, the Python stdlib's XML support sucks.
It was just a fucking example I pulled out of my ass, not gospel. Last time I had to struggle with Python's shitty ecosystem, it was trying to find a working implementation of SOAP.
But I suppose via. Open Source Development Mindset, it was my own fault for using SOAP, even though the third-party I was integrating with didn't give me a choice. So I obviously deserved what I got.
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@error said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
It's not the size that matters; it's how you use it!
said by hundreds of thousands of size deficient males the world over.
rofl
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@error said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
It's not the size that matters; it's how you use it!
said by hundreds of thousands of size deficient males the world over.
rofl
ouch, @accalia , chu be mean today o_O
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@blakeyrat said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Well, they're all indexed on the same server I guess. But there's no quality control.
…and we're already because you were wrong.
@blakeyrat said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Last time I had to struggle with Python's shitty ecosystem, it was trying to find a working implementation of SOAP.
Yeah, and since you couldn't find a good SOAP library, you're now ranting about how shitty the Python standard library is. Which is completely nonsensical, because the shitty implementations you found are not in the standard library. Also, it's totally defensible not to have SOAP support in the standard library of a general-purpose programming language. In 5 years of web development, I had to work with exactly one SOAP API.
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@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Yeah, and since you couldn't find a good SOAP library, you're now ranting about how shitty the Python standard library is.
Yup.
@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Also, it's totally defensible not to have SOAP support in the standard library of a general-purpose programming language.
Possibly; but the language I could have been using, C#, does have an implementation of SOAP and a really really good one.
Python's competing with the other languages I know.
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
That sounds awful.
Care to elaborate?
Really bad. Terrible. Double plus ungood.
Now I have to ship around a RDB with my project?
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My one experience, so far, using docker was terrible. I don't understand why startups like this shit, it's just a shitty VM wrapper.
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@aapis said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
My one experience, so far, using docker was terrible. I don't understand why startups like this shit, it's just a shitty VM wrapper.
I love the concept, but the actual execution leaves something to be desired.
I have recently installed docker and this is all I ever get from it:
Filed under: There's personally identifying information in that screenshot but I can't be arsed to redact it.
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@blakeyrat said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Possibly; but the language I could have been using, C#, does have an implementation of SOAP and a really really good one.
Python's competing with the other languages I know.Fair enough, but your binary opinions are still annoying. The second something doesn't do exactly what you like, it's immediately shit, regardless of whether it works perfectly fine for 99% of the users, for most of which it's equal to or better than the alternatives.
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@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Fair enough, but your binary opinions are still annoying.
There's more than one type of binary?
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@aapis said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
it's just a shitty VM wrapper.
Except it's not because you're not emulating hardware or running a second kernel.
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@blakeyrat said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
There's more than one type of binary?
- Number binary
- Gender binary
- Binary not found
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@blakeyrat said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Possibly; but the language I could have been using, C#, does have an implementation of SOAP and a really really good one.
This is not surprising; it's designed by the same company that invented SOAP. This doesn't make SOAP suck any less. It actually manages to make XML even worse.
@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Now I have to ship around a RDB with my project?
No, where did I say that? I said that the package manager (not your project, unless of course you're on the NPM team) should catalogue its dependencies in a proper database. No shipping-around of anything required.
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
unicode
if you ever used Python I don't need to say anything more
I have used Python. I have never, however, used Python to work on the class of problems where Unicode-specific issues become relevant. Please clarify?
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
No, where did I say that? I said that the package manager (not your project, unless of course you're on the NPM team) should catalogue its dependencies in a proper database. No shipping-around of anything required.
You said "your dependencies," which didn't seem to apply to the repository. Yes, the repository should have an understanding of dependency among packages and an RDBMS and foreign keys is a relatively simple way to handle that, so long as you aren't concerned with versioned stuff. Then it's a bit more complicated.
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@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
You said "your dependencies," which didn't seem to apply to the repository. Yes, the repository should have an understanding of dependency among packages and an RDBMS and foreign keys is a relatively simple way to handle that, so long as you aren't concerned with versioned stuff. Then it's a bit more complicated.
I said "your package dependencies", and I figured that it would have been clear from the context that I was talking about the architecture of NPM. Apparently not.
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2 needs hacky shit to work with anything that doesn't fit basic 127 character ASCII.
Stop using dumb alphabets.
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@fbmac None worth using.
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@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac None worth using.
Well not since the DOS days of using those single and double line extended characters to draw GUI boxes.
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@mikehurley I remember many programs with boxes that had accented characters in the corners because of that
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@fbmac That's a language core issue, rather than an stdlib issue.
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@fbmac Don't use Python 2 then.
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2
There's your problem. It's 2016, there's (almost) no excuse left.
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@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2
There's your problem. It's 2016, there's (almost) no excuse left.
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
Such as? Haven't found one in a while…
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
name and shame.
seriously, if there are any left that you know of, name them.
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
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@boomzilla said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2 needs hacky shit to work with anything that doesn't fit basic 127 character ASCII.
Stop using dumb alphabets.
It sounds like they're .
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@asdf python-slugify was one last time I checked
and if I wanted silly parenthesis like those on print I would be doing lisp
pypi lists it as supporting python3: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-slugify
their travis config tests on python 3.3 and 3.4: https://github.com/un33k/python-slugify/blob/master/.travis.yml
and the build is passing: https://travis-ci.org/un33k/python-slugify?branch=master
try again?
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia maybe, when I need to slugify something again
i meant try again to show me a python package that doesn't support python 3 that i cannot show supports python3 with 2 seconds of googling, nor can find a supported alternative in python3
but whatever, that reading works too i guess
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia you forgot the important argument about silly parenthesis
not in this thread. if you want that argument again take it outside.
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@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
name and shame.
seriously, if there are any left that you know of, name them.
Admittedly it's been about a year and this might have changed, but last I checked,
web.py
was Python 2 only.
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@accalia said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
What about all the libraries that are still not ported because Python 3 broke backwards compatibility too badly?
name and shame.
seriously, if there are any left that you know of, name them.
Admittedly it's been about a year and this might have changed, but last I checked,
web.py
was Python 2 only.hmm..... okay that one i'll give you.
the official response from the developer when asked for python 3 support was basically
2to3, duh
which actually works. i used web.py in python3 for quite a while through the simple application of one pass of 2to3
so.... it works..... except not officially?
it's a weird one to call.
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
and if I wanted silly parenthesis like those on print I would be doing lisp
That might be the silliest argument for sticking with Python 2 ever.
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2 is still the default on ubuntu 14.04 and centos 7
And how does that prevent you from using Python 3 on those systems? Because it doesn't.
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
last I checked, web.py was Python 2 only.
You're , you should be using Flask instead.
CLOSED_WONTFIX,
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@fbmac Still, every argument you mentioned so far doesn't affect the average developer who wants to write a Python application.
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@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
and if I wanted silly parenthesis like those on print I would be doing lisp
That might be the silliest argument for sticking with Python 2 ever.
@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
python 2 is still the default on ubuntu 14.04 and centos 7
And how does that prevent you from using Python 3 on those systems? Because it doesn't.
If you go to the command line (the existence of which is a of its own, but hey, when in Rome, do as the barbarians burning down the city around everyone's heads do) and say
python
, you'll get Python 2. You have to explicitly invokepython3
. This is actually the official recommendation from the official Python guys. It would seem that they don't agree that 2 is obsolete and everyone should be using 3 now.@asdf said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
last I checked, web.py was Python 2 only.
You're , you should be using Flask instead.
CLOSED_WONTFIX,
I will refrain from making an obvious joke regarding the unavailability of a product named Flask, and instead ask, why?
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that I'm familiar with
web.py
and appreciate its incredibly simple "just works" style, and that I know nothing about Flask, except that there is something out there called Flask and based on context, apparently it does web server stuff.Why should I switch?
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler because accents
Context please? To me "accents" means "people who are from somewhere other than where I am from talk funny", unless I'm speaking with a few specific friends, in which case it means "hair highlights." Neither of these makes any sense in the context of web server frameworks.
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@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
If you go to the command line […] and say python, you'll get Python 2. You have to explicitly invoke python3.
Um, okay, so? Why would I care?
@masonwheeler said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that I'm familiar with web.py and appreciate its incredibly simple "just works" style, and that I know nothing about Flask, except that there is something out there called Flask and based on context, apparently it does web server stuff.
Why should I switch?I wasn't entirely serious about that. The only actual reason I can think of is Python3 support.
Oh, and BTW:
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that I'm familiar with web.py and appreciate its incredibly simple "just works" style
The same can be said about Flask. If you like web.py, you'll probably like Flask as well.
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@fbmac said in Idiots make their build process reliant on someone else's server, bitch when it goes down:
@masonwheeler unicode characters
Ah, so you're talking about the difference between Python 2 vs. Python 3.
But apparently a simple application of
2to3
solves that.