Rails angst
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@accalia Mono has been ready for prime time for decades.
You're doing that annoying open source-y slashdotter thing where you simply pretend that Mono doesn't exist so you can somehow paint .Net as some "evil" Microsoft closed-source demon world of horror.
But... we're not that stupid.
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@accalia Your premise, 'you can't do asp.net on linux' is no more correct than it was at first. Which is not at all.
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@dkf Interesting. I'm doing some deployments here and there, but haven't really looked into this deep enough to make that sort of assessment.
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@blakeyrat said in Rails angst:
@accalia Mono has been ready for prime time for decades.
yes, it has.
.net core isn't.
and enough things break in mono versus c# proper that I would not recommend it for production use even today.
sure things will probably work, but can i prove it? no. can i test it to show that it works, not in the amount of time, nor with the amount of money anyone's willing to pay me to do it.
hell i have a hard enough time moving ancient yet business critical applications off of server2003 to server 2008! applications that process millions of dollars of invoices each year, are .net based, and havent had paid updates in years (one application we have is on version 4..... the developer is selling version 14 now, and they increment major once per year.
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@dkf said in Rails angst:
@cartman82 said in Rails angst:
With what authority do you make this assessment?
I believe (but have less evidence for) that IIS/.NET-based systems tend to weigh in similar to Java in terms >of overall weight, but I've not talked so much to the people running that side of things.
If it is ASP.NET WebForms or MVC then yes it is similar, trying to find the benches now. If it is just OWIN, then it is much lighter.
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@accalia said in Rails angst:
yes, it has.
Then stop pretending it hasn't and hoping we're all stupid enough to fall for it.
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@accalia .NET Core no, Mono I don't see why not. Obviously would be worth stress testing, I've worked on stuff on my Mac using Monodevelop and deployed to a Windows box.
I think because most apps are dependent anyway on SQL Server it makes sense just to stick them on a Windows box.
If your app uses OWIN + PCL compliant stuff and isn't reliant on SQL Server you can deploy it anywhere.
So IMHO @blakeyrat is kinda right and so are you.
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@blakeyrat said in Rails angst:
@accalia said in Rails angst:
yes, it has.
Then stop pretending it hasn't and hoping we're all stupid enough to fall for it.
conveniant that you respond to only the first line of my response.
it's almost as if you don't want to try and counter the rest of it.
ASP.NET might be able to be run on linux, but it shouldn't. Not for production, mission critical purposes. not yet.
maybe .net core and mssql for linux will fix that. maybe. but they havent yet.
and if you think i'm wrong. prove it. you put up a commercially successful site running asp.net and using mssql database on linux.
actually no. i'll make it easier, you put up a commercially successful site running asp.net and using your choice of database for the backend running only on linux.
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@accalia said in Rails angst:
conveniant that you respond to only the first line of my response.
That's as far as I read. Guess how far I read the post I'm replying to now?
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@blakeyrat said in Rails angst:
@accalia said in Rails angst:
conveniant that you respond to only the first line of my response.
That's as far as I read. Guess how far I read the post I'm replying to now?
none, not one word. not even the words you quoted.
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@blakeyrat said in Rails angst:
@accalia Mono has been ready for prime time for decades.
It's been sort of ready, but never actually made it.
I played around with it a few times. Like, made a little GTK app, set up a hello world website etc. It was cool seeing that stuff work on linux, but beyond this surface level, the framework always felt kind of flimsy.
Things would break with obtuse error messages. You'd have to mess with packages and symlinks to get things to work. The entire .NET ecosystem presumes windows, so it was a headache to get the libraries you need. Everything was an older crappier version of what you can find in .NET.
If you wanted to use C#/.NET, I guess it just made more sense to swallow the costs and do it proper, on Windows.
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@cartman82 Unity3D uses Mono pretty heavily.
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@cartman82 I just happen to know the people who run most of the relevant production infrastructures :) and I've observed the software development team I'm currently attached to struggling with RoR to do what I'd probably do with a lot less fuss in Java. :( Everything I've heard about C# puts it in a similar weight class to Java (for server deployments; not talking about desktop apps) but with fairly different detailed software configuration requirements for getting started, so switching between the two isn't a simple job. (Basically, while I don't doubt that you can write cross platform code in both C# and Java, it requires a higher level of environmental mindfulness than most programmers ever express.)
I noted that we see plenty of Python, and it's true. We do. But it's not standard stacks that we're really seeing, but rather applications that just happen to expose themselves to users as web applications. (How do you compare resource usage for something to do simulated annealing of DNA fragments? The system is chunky, but that's because the algorithm itself is costly.) All these specialist things are valuable to us, but not good for forming general opinions about web application weight. :)
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@Rhywden said in Rails angst:
@cartman82 Unity3D uses Mono pretty heavily.
Unity is kind of its own world, with its own ecosystem. Also, AFAIK they basically include an ancient version of Mono that they got working and don't really follow the C#/NET progress all that much.
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@cartman82 said in Rails angst:
@Rhywden said in Rails angst:
@cartman82 Unity3D uses Mono pretty heavily.
Unity is kind of its own world, with its own ecosystem. Also, AFAIK they basically include an ancient version of Mono that they got working and don't really follow the C#/NET progress all that much.
Well, according to their roadmap, they're at least looking into upgrading to something more modern.
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@accalia said in Rails angst:
finally finishing the transition from 2.x to 3.x
Have they gotten rid of the GIL or whatever it was that made multithreading not workable?
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@accalia said in Rails angst:
i'm a busy fox
In that very post you typed another word that was just as long, and a word that was only one letter shorter.
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@FrostCat said in Rails angst:
Have they gotten rid of the GIL or whatever it was that made multithreading not workable?
Well... the reference implementation (CPython), nope, still sucks, but you can use IronPython (Python inside .NET/CLI) and then it actually works well. Yay, Microsoft saves the day (there's Jython too, but who wants to touch Java these days?)
Come think of it, pretty much every Python implementation is better than CPython.
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. Net 2.0 nice
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/924021/what-is-the-version-of-net-in-unity-5.html
