I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous


  • sockdevs

    0_1459587586678_upload-136daefd-9409-44fb-bc80-2007b94ca230

    That's right: on the London Underground, paying by cash can be more than three times the price!

    Want to know what makes it even more ridiculous? That journey is 10 minutes.



  • London is just a ripoff.

    In Sheffield, Tram ticket for the whole day is like 4 quid ...



  • @RaceProUK I've always suspected it was part of a policy of "Cheap for Londoners, less cheap for out-of-towners (with UK bank accounts), extortionate for foreigners who won't have a contactless card that works in the UK"


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    There are shitloads of toll roads in the Miami area. They've also gone exclusively toll-by-plate, unlike most of the rest of the U.S. Thus, if you drive on one of these roads without having registered your plate first, you get a bill in the mail at some point later, but with an extortionate admin fee on top of it. Oh, and the rental car companies get to charge you a "reasonable" fee for using toll-by-plate with one of their cars, which naturally you don't find out until you get there. The alternative of course is to avoid the toll roads, but traffic on local roads there is horrendous.



  • wtfbanking doesnt support it yet, we're gonna wait until we have to implement in a week when a customer ask for it

    why do things with a solid process and planning when you can do a cowboy coding run?


  • area_deu

    Surveillance reasons? :womans_hat:



  • @RaceProUK said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    That's right: on the London Underground, paying by cash can be more than three times the price!

    And all this time I've been buying proper tickets every time I go to London like an idiot :laughing:



  • The toll is quite high for moving around the known universe.



  • @gwowen Here in the Seattle area, our transit card is called Orca, and anybody can pop into a 7-11 and buy one. They have to preload with $10, I think, is the only requirement. So if an out-of-towner doesn't have one, well, that's kind of dumb. Are Oyster cards harder to buy?

    Then again, our transit agencies don't change different fares based on method of payment, because that is also dumb.



  • @gwowen said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    extortionate for foreigners who won't have a contactless card that works in the UK"

    AFAIR Oyster cards aren't personal, you can buy them at convenience stores and such. When I lived there for a while, I simply borrowed one from my landlord with no problem.

    In my hometown, though... no such luck, and of course when they introduced the system they hiked the paper ticket prices up majorly. Then again, cheaper public transport is supposed to be a bonus for leaving your taxes in the city.



  • @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Are Oyster cards harder to buy?

    No.

    @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    our transit agencies don't change different fares based on method of payment

    It's two different types of fare, although the website doesn't make that clear.
    The thing referred to as "Cash" is a traditional paper ticket which can be also be paid using credit/debit card - including contactless - as they're bought from a ticket machine.
    Contactless is listed next to Oyster above because you can just use a contactless credit/debit card on the Oyster card readers without even needing to buy an Oyster card.

    The Oyster system always charges you the cheapest fare from a specific stop to another specific stop. You tap the card as you enter and leave the Underground system.
    The paper tickets are typically zoned - so whether you want to go one stop or seven if it's within the same zone (or group of zones for outer London) it's the same price.
    For example, if we make RacePro's journey another 4 stops longer which crosses another zone, the traditional ticket is the same price but the Oyster journey costs more.

    0_1459612332078_upload-ac7d3e5b-7134-42b7-937c-fc1e9a7fd266

    Yes, the Oyster is cheaper than a traditional ticket, but that's because they want to encourage people to use the easier more modern system.

    TL;DR - it's not a dumb way, they're encouraging people to use the easiest and cheapest system



  • @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Then again, our transit agencies don't change different fares based on method of payment, because that is also dumb.

    Don't know how it's done in Seattle, but with our Oyster analogues, you punch them when you enter and leave the bus so that it can charge you based on the exact amount of stops you've traversed. Would be rather hard to do with paper tickets, so those you simply buy for 10 or 30 minutes, or for a single trip.

    So it would be pretty much impossible to charge exactly the same whether you use the card or the paper ticket, since they work differently.



  • @Maciejasjmj said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Don't know how it's done in Seattle, but with our Oyster analogues, you punch them when you enter and leave the bus so that it can charge you based on the exact amount of stops you've traversed.

    People in Seattle don't punch little cards.

    We only punch Californians.



  • @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    @gwowen Here in the Seattle area, our transit card is called Orca, and anybody can pop into a 7-11 and buy one. They have to preload with $10, I think, is the only requirement. So if an out-of-towner doesn't have one, well, that's kind of dumb. Are Oyster cards harder to buy?

    Then again, our transit agencies don't change different fares based on method of payment, because that is also dumb.

    The problem with cards like this is that I have got fined £20 each time "for not buying a ticket", when I used the oyster card for the London Underground.

    I obviously did sign in (you can't get on the platform easily unless you are into parkour) and for whatever reason it wasn't recorded properly by the logic the oyster card system runs under. So when I failed to "sign out at the gate" I was fined £20, even though I had the card on me.

    London being London everybody is a rude arsehole and refused to believe anything, even though to pretty much everyone in the UK I sound like a farmer from being from the west country.

    If you get a ticket, you have a receipt that you can show a staff member in such an event and prove you didn't try getting a free ride.

    I always buy tickets now, and I shouldn't be penalised for buying one over something like the oyster card or similar. It is the same journey you are paying for.

    Also if you are a contractor like I it is easier to claim back real tickets, than oyster card expenses because I can easily prove that they were to work and back rather than anywhere else.

    Normally I am all for not having paper work, but you can get fucked because there is a bug in Transport for London's computer system.



  • @Maciejasjmj said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    ...but with our Oyster analogues, you punch them when you enter and leave the bus so that it can charge you based on the exact amount of stops you've traversed.

    Which cities do that?



  • @coldandtired

    London



  • @coldandtired said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Which cities do that?

    Seattle does for the Sounder commuter train. The Light Rail doesn't (because right now it's all in one "zone"), nor does the Streetcar (ditto).

    Bus drivers charge based on zone, but you have to tell the driver to switch the card reader if the bus typically goes into a different zone, but you're getting off in the same zone. (Before you use your Orca card, they can't retroactively change it after.) For example, on the 510 or 512 route, the card reader will be set to the 2-zone fare, but if you're getting off at, say, South Everett Park & Ride (which is in the same zone as Everett Station), you can ask the driver to change the reader to a 1-zone fare for you.

    If you pay cash in the Seattle zone on Metro, the most common cash routes, they give you a paper transfer slip. SoundTransit doesn't offer transfers because it's designed for commuting in and out, not for travel within the city. The Orca card applies transfers automatically, without a paper slip-- even on SoundTransit, which doesn't otherwise do transfers.

    Every transit system in or near Seattle uses the Orca card, with the exception of the Seattle Monorail which is cash-only. And no, I have absolutely no idea why. So your Orca card works when you're paying hundreds of dollars taking an 18-wheeler onto a car ferry, but not when you're taking your cousin from downtown to the Space Needle for $4. Go fucking figure.

    And by typing this I have now become the guy who wrote this play:

    Agatha Christie Sketch (Railway Timetables) – 03:32
    — Revictus13



  • @coldandtired said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    @Maciejasjmj said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    ...but with our Oyster analogues, you punch them when you enter and leave the bus so that it can charge you based on the exact amount of stops you've traversed.

    Which cities do that?

    Poznań. And I think that's the only one.

    The system is... kinda special, as most public systems in Poland are.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    kinda special

    It's Poland ... what did you expect?



  • @blakeyrat

    So it works more or less like London.

    The Barcelona Transit system was the best €4 for the entire day everywhere.



  • @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    . It is the same journey you are paying for.

    No, it is not.
    A paper ticket covers one or more zones, the Oyster system covers the specific journey from station A to station B.

    You're making the same journey but you are not paying for the same journey.



  • @blakeyrat I always though Seattle was pretty small, and according to Wikipedia the city is. The metro area is much bigger than I'd thought, though.

    Warsaw has seven different ways of paying:

    • paper tickets from a shop
    • paper tickets from the driver, which cost extra, are cash only and the driver can refuse to do it
    • paper tickets from machines at some stops. Theoretically possible to pay with banknotes but as I can't remember seeing a place for coins they probably don't give change. Very inconvenient for multiple tickets as paying by card involves going through the whole system, inserting your bank card and pin (no paywave) for every type of ticket
    • paper tickets from machines in some buses and trams. At least these use paywave but I'm not sure if you can buy a ticket for later use or if they are automatically validated when the machine spits them out
    • cards (like Oyster and Orca but time-based rather than distance-based)
    • cards for locals which are the same as above but cheaper
    • phone apps, which were far more trouble than they're worth last time I tried them


  • @loopback0

    So when I pay at the train station from say "Iford station to Liverpool Parkstreet" I am not paying from one destination to another?

    Note that some of the Journey (if memory serves me right) is overground to underground.

    Anyway that wasn't the point I was making, I am paying to go from place A to B it should cost the fucking same if I am using the same route regardless.



  • @coldandtired said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    @Maciejasjmj said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    ...but with our Oyster analogues, you punch them when you enter and leave the bus so that it can charge you based on the exact amount of stops you've traversed.

    Which cities do that?

    Opal cards in Sydney do this.

    If you forget to tap off when leaving the bus, you get charged the route's full fare (even if you only got on halfway through the route).



  • @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    So when I pay at the train station from say "Iford station to Liverpool Parkstreet" I am not paying from one destination to another?

    Are those places on the Underground?



  • @loopback0

    I dunno now, I haven't travel on them in over 10 years so I honestly don't know. I only use proper tickets because I have got fines from the Oyster card "not working" and I can claim it back as expenses.


  • mod

    @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    when I pay at the train station from say "Iford station to Liverpool Parkstreet"

    These days you don't. On the BART the only way you can pay at all is to put money on a paper ticket; youthen put that in the reader when you get on, and when you get off, it deducts money based on what zone you got off on. You can ride the trains for ages back and forth, and get off one zone from where you got on, and be charged the same amount.



  • @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Anyway that wasn't the point I was making, I am paying to go from place A to B it should cost the fucking same

    No, you're not.

    You're paying to go from one end of the zone that place A is in to the end of the zone that place B is in if you buy a paper ticket.



  • FWIW I buy paper tickets on the Underground too.



  • @Yamikuronue

    Where I live, There is a maximum fare for things like buses and a "day rider" fare.

    There is one train station with one way that goes east and the other way that goes west and you pay for where you are going. The further from your station the more you get charged unless you book ahead and reserve early. But I live in a place that is considered by the rest of England as the equivalent of "Rednecks".

    I always get paper tickets because I been screwed sooo many times by things like oyster and the equivalent when I visit London and other big cities in Europe.



  • @loopback0

    I am saying that it shouldn't be like that. Well at least it shouldn't pay vastly different amounts when travelling between the same places for what I (and a lot of other people I would bet) consider arbitary reasons.

    I can understand why if I buy a ticket earlier (especially airlines) they charge less because they have plenty of time to accommodate me and plan ahead which would decrease their costs, but a tube train is something that runs several times a day.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @lucas1 I've never had bad experience with the Oyster card, but Clipper (Bay Area) fucked me over a few times (I was charged the maximum fee although I "checked out" at the destination).



  • London being London everybody is a rude arsehole and refused to believe anything, even though to pretty much everyone in the UK I sound like a farmer from being from the west country.

    Whenever I have to deal with officious twats in London, I just pretend I can't understand them. "SORRY" I say, loudly and slowly, "I ONLY SPEAK ENGLISH. YOU UNDERSTAND, YES? ENGLISH!"



  • @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    And by typing this I have now become the guy who wrote this play:

    Some of you people may remember the Sausagefest Mumble server. It's mostly British people on there, and I can confirm that all of them talk about trains nonstop.


  • :belt_onion:

    @asdf said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Clipper (Bay Area)

    Clipper is the utmost shit. You have to pay 20 days in advance if you want to pay online, and their website is TR :wtf:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    I always get paper tickets because I been screwed sooo many times by things like oyster and the equivalent when I visit London and other big cities in Europe.

    Perhaps they're just cheating you because they think you're a hick.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @dse said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    their website is TR :wtf:

    +1

    Most annoying part of it: For some reason, the login form is in an iframe. Good luck trying to make your browser remember the password.


  • sockdevs

    @loopback0 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    @lucas1 said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    So when I pay at the train station from say "Iford station to Liverpool Parkstreet" I am not paying from one destination to another?

    Are those places on the Underground?

    No they are not


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @asdf said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    the login form is in an iframe

    That's probably because they want it to be "secure" even if you don't type https://.

    Or maybe it's for secure multi-mediation by design or something...





  • @blakeyrat said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    Here in the Seattle area, our transit card is called Orca, and anybody can pop into a 7-11 and buy one. They have to preload with $10, I think, is the only requirement. So if an out-of-towner doesn't have one, well, that's kind of dumb. Are Oyster cards harder to buy?

    But that still gouges the out-of-towner. Use $2.50 in fares, now the tourist is going home with a non-refundable card that is useless to them. So their $2.50 fares cost them $10.00. They can't even give the residue to some lucky stranger, since the cards are not transferable.


  • sockdevs

    @CoyneTheDup said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    They can't even give the residue to some lucky stranger, since the cards are not transferable.

    Unless their name is on the card, I doubt anyone can prove it's been transferred.



  • I got an Oyster card a while ago and simply kept it for the next time I'll go there (I plan to, but I have no idea when for now). There's no name on it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Khudzlin said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    simply kept it for the next time I'll go there

    You may or may not have to let one of the guys at the ticket counters reactivate your card next time. I've heard that they are disabled after a while.



  • @asdf I'll try to remember that. Luckily, I'll come in by one of the big stations (International railway station), so there'll be staff. I actually already came back once (about a year after the first time), but can't remember if I had to do reactivate.


  • sockdevs

    @Khudzlin You can now use regular contactless credit/debit cards instead of having to get an Oyster card, though I believe you have to set up a payment card on the TfL website first (I did it Saturday when I went to see Babymetal at Wembley Arena; parking at Stanmore for £2 and £3 for the Tube is much better than the £16.25 it would have cost to park at the arena itself).



  • @RaceProUK said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    @Khudzlin You can now use regular contactless credit/debit cards instead of having to get an Oyster card, though I believe you have to set up a payment card on the TfL website first (I did it Saturday when I went to see Babymetal at Wembley Arena; parking at Stanmore for £2 and £3 for the Tube is much better than the £16.25 it would have cost to park at the arena itself).

    I don't think you have to register. I use to frequently forget my oyster card and just used my credit card. God bless contactless. Combined with my astonishing will power I'm now 10 kilos heavier than I should be.

    How was Babymetal? I meant to go but couldn't get standing. I may be an old fogey but I'll be buried before I go to a seated gig.



  • Oyster? Meh. It has some nice features (such as the daily capping) but the user interaction is utter shit.



  • You don't have to register a contactless card unless you want to be able to get receipts.


  • sockdevs

    @DogsB said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    How was Babymetal?

    They were awesome! :)

    @DogsB said in I know there's a push for contactless, but this is ridiculous:

    I meant to go but couldn't get standing.

    Judging by the size of the crowd, I'm not surprised :P


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