IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide



  • Developer of Pinboard speaks-out against IFTTT's moronic rules changes:

    Some quotes:

    However, cutting out sites that you have supported for years because they refuse to work for free is not very friendly to your oldest and most loyal users. And claiming that it's the other party's fault that you're discontinuing service is a bit of a dick move.

    I am all for glue services, big and small. But it's better for the web that they connect to stable, documented, public APIs, rather than custom private ones.

    And if you do want me to write a custom API for you, pay me lots of money.

    I say nuts to all that.

    I'm sorry your IFTTT/Pinboard recipes are going to stop working.

    It's entirely IFTTT's decision to drop support for Pinboard (along with a bunch of other sites). They are the ones who are going to flip the switch on working code on April 4, and they could just as easily flip the switch back on (or even write an IFTTT recipe that does it for them). Weigh their claims about Pinboard being a beloved service accordingly.

    (How do I put a blank line in a blockquote without breaking the blockquote? Goddamned Markdown is shit. This is simple fucking shit I could do with a single button press in Word.)



  • You do the needful and put a > in the blank line.

    like

    this


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat If the guy is just publishing a service, Pinboard, that IFTTT is consuming, he can continue to do just that and let the other party do the worrying. However, it sounds to me like they're trying to bamboozle others into working for them for free through pseudo-legal-letters and crap like that, which is a nice trick if you can do it but really doesn't work all that often.

    In short, fuck 'em.

    They should look into integration with Discourse. :smiling_imp:



  • @dkf said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    They should look into integration with Discourse.

    IF {Jeff} THEN {Ban Users}



  • so they want the pinboard guy to write a new api according to their specs, and they want to dictate license terms to him for the privilege of doing so? wow.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    At first it seems like just a big company trying to bully smaller ones into doing what they want under the threat of losing users.

    But then you get to the terms of service part and it's clearer they've just gone crazy: they're expecting everyone else to sign a non competition agreement and a commitment to keep their API updated any way they are asked to?

    Seems like they have someone who doesn't know how the internet works taking the big decisions.



  • @fwd said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    so they want the pinboard guy to write a new api according to their specs, and they want to dictate license terms to him for the privilege of doing so? wow.

    Looks like it. I don't understand what IFTTT is offering in return, either. More server load? More server load that will never see your ads or your "buy a subscription" page? Why would anybody agree to IFTTT's terms here?

    Even if they weren't PATENTLY ridiculous, claiming ownership over all content posted over the API, they're still not offering any tit-for-tat AFAICT.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    Also, if they get every website to use a standard API just for them, it means they've essentially created their own replacement. Anyone could now use those APIs with any website and skip IFTTT.

    The only thing saving them from that is that non-compete clause that probably prohibits the websites from sharing the API with everyone else. They still have the brand name and the legal advantages, but from a purely technical point of view, all they really have now is a nice user interface.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    ... Okay. So pinboard is some sort of thing of indeterminate type hosted in India with an SSL cert from a root that my Chrome install doesn't recognize.

    If This Then That appears to be a bunch of raving lunatics that provide... An API? A platform for building APIs that consume APIs? An API for building APIs that consume APIs? I can't make heads nor tails of it, so it must be super fucking trendy with the Javascript turtleneck set.



  • @blakeyrat you can combine your too favorite tools while editing markdown readme.md files on github using the git cli.

    not sure if there is any specific editor you hate more intensely, probably vim?

    do you have any preference between vim and emacs?



  • To be fair, Google also does this too to people who writes code that uses old version of Blogger APIs. Those who don't rewrite using the newer version (which is nearly full rewrite, not just minor changes, because of OAuth upgrade requirement) were left behind.

    The only difference is that Google continue to provide 1-year service after the announcement to give time people to change, and we don't know how much time is given by IFTTT.

    (I don't actually need to use it, but some people asked how to "update" the code on MSDN forum, that's how I know it.)

    Btw, the IFTTT's TOS is just bullshxt... I think just blogging the decision to stop supporting them is the correct move.


  • area_deu

    @fbmac Emacs is made by rms, so I'd go with that.


  • :belt_onion:

    If you are building against somebody else's API you are absetively :doing_it_wrong: and smaller players are worse .


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Weng said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    So pinboard is some sort of thing of indeterminate type hosted in India

    It might be using an Indian hostname, but it's hosted in the US according to my network analysis tools.



  • @cheong said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:
    and we don't know how much time is given by IFTTT.

    We do:

    Unfortunately, the Pinboard Channel did not migrate to the new platform and will be removed on April 4th.


  • mod

    @Weng said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    I can't make heads nor tails of it

    If This Then That is basically what it sounds like: you set up a trigger in one service and an action in another. So I can say, when I post a new tweet, copy it to facebook, or something like that.

    Pinboard is.... some kind of bookmarky thing. But Social. Or something like that. I keep getting it mixed up with Pinterest.



  • @Yamikuronue said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    Pinboard is.... some kind of bookmarky thing. But Social. Or something like that.

    Their own website doesn't clear it up.

    Welcome to Pinboard!
    Social Bookmarking for Introverts
    Pinboard is a fast, no-nonsense bookmarking site for people who value privacy and speed.

    So it's social and private? Wat?



  • --maciej on March 28, 2016

    @Maciejasjmj ?


  • :belt_onion:

    @JazzyJosh Do you also mention people if somebody on the Internet signs a post with "Dave"?



  • @JBert said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    @JazzyJosh Do you also mention people if somebody on the Internet signs a post with "Dave"?

    Is Dave writing again?



  • @JazzyJosh dis u?
    dis u


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Yamikuronue whytheshit would anyone want to do that?



  • @maciejasmj Is that you?



  • @xaade said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    @maciejasmj Is that you?

    I do wish I had a motorbike like that one.



  • @Maciejasjmj the blog post is signed by -Maciej



  • @cheong said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    To be fair, Google also does this too to people who writes code that uses old version of Blogger APIs.

    I think you got it backwards. This would be as if someone who wrote code that uses the Blogger API called Google and told them "Hey, I don't want to use your API to interact with your service anymore. Build me a custom API that only I can use, which I'll own all rights to, as well as to all content that goes through it." Only they'd never tell Google that, but they will try to pull it on smaller sites.

    Basically, they decided that maintaining a hundred different APIs so that their service can talk to a hundred different sites was too costly, and chose to tell the people running the sites they want to interact with to implement their secret API instead. That's much cheaper for them, after all.



  • @xaade said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    @Maciejasjmj the blog post is signed by -Maciej

    Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not me. I'm also not a footballer, child actor or a renaissance scholar.



  • @blakeyrat

    Question: Did the site ever build their original API to work with ifttt?

    Usually sites don't do that, unless it's a standard like those old rss feeds. ( I miss that ).

    Usually the consumer parses the site and builds to the site they are targeting...



  • @JBert Hi Dave



  • @AyGeePlus ... Yes



  • @cheong said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    To be fair, Google also does this too to people who writes code that uses old version of Blogger APIs.

    They did?

    So Google send a jackass letter to users of a product that uses the Blogger API, saying the developer of that product is a slacker jerk who refuses to update their product to work with the new Blogger API?

    Then Google forced that developer to sign a EULA for the API that includes giving all patent rights to Google, as well as claiming copyright over all data that passes over the Blogger API?

    Google did this too?

    You either did not read the article, or we're going to need ONE BIG ASS [citation needed] stamp for this shit.


  • area_can

    @Yamikuronue said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    Pinboard is.... some kind of bookmarky thing. But Social. Or something like that.

    It's really just a bookmarking thing. the 'social' part is kind of weird, it's mostly anonymous-ish. I dunno if anyone really uses that part. I signed up for it after looking at delicio.us (or however you spell it) and getting pissed off at how unusable their site was.

    Maciej's the same dude who did this talk about how most sites on the internet are loaded with useless shit that no one wants (text version of the talk available here: http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm). I really liked it!

    Google has rolled out a competitor to Instant Articles, which it calls Accelerated Mobile Pages. AMP is a special subset of HTML designed to be fast on mobile devices.

    Why not just serve regular HTML without stuffing it full of useless crap? The question is left unanswered...
    Jeremy Keith pointed out to me that the page describing AMP is technically infinite in size. If you open it in Chrome, it will keep downloading the same 3.4 megabyte carousel video forever.
    ...
    The tech lead for Google's AMP project was nice enough to engage us on Twitter. He acknowledged the bloat, but explained that Google was "resource constrained" and had had to outsource this project.
    This admission moved me deeply, because I had no idea Google was in a tight spot. So I spent a couple of hours of my own time making a static version of the AMP website.
    I began by replacing the image carousels with pictures of William Howard Taft, America's greatest president by volume.

    I offered my changes to Google free of charge, but they are evidently too resource constrained to even find the time to copy it over.
    ...
    Here is the Forbes homepage, as seen with the left hamburger menu expanded. It looks like a random chunk of memory that accidentally got rendered to the video card.



  • @bb36e said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    (text version of the talk available here: http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm). I really liked it!

    So did I. Ironically liking seems to be broken due to cooties, so a +1 will have to suffice.
    Whoever put the pictures to the left of the text does deserve a lashing. I zoomed in on the text, and didn't notice the pics until halfway through. yes, I did wonder if they weren't missing.



  • @swayde said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:
    Whoever put the pictures to the left of the text does deserve a lashing.

    They're the pictures from the slideshow used in the actual presentation, where would you have put them instead?



  • @LB_ inline.



  • @blakeyrat said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    sign a EULA for the API that includes giving all patent rights

    Wouldn't that give IFTTT patent rights to your internal code? I mean, internal code drives the API right?

    This is a weird way to do business.



  • @xaade The EULA in the article is confusingly-worded, but it seems to be assigning IFTTT patent rights to any patent-able technology you happen to create while interfacing with their API. Re-read the article to see if you agree with that interpretation.



  • @swayde But then it might not always be clear from context whether the pictures go with the text above, the text below, or both. To each their own, I guess.


  • Banned

    I used IFTTT to automate my job for a while, but then they refused to keep it working with the private api from the chinese kidnapping service I contracted.

    It can't be a public API for obvious reasons, so I just retired, I have no more patience to keep up with current software bullshit.



  • @blakeyrat

    1. Patent License. Licensee hereby grants IFTTT a nonexclusive, sublicensable, perpetual, fully-paid, worldwide license to fully exercise and exploit all patent rights with respect to improvements or extensions created by or for Licensee to the API

    This is the one you're talking about.

    My interpretation is that, say pinboard adds a new method to the API that increases efficiency. Say it supports pulling multiple pieces of data in a yield return fashion instead of the current API having a method that it has to call for each unit. IFTTT now owns that API method.

    Given the dynamic nature of IFTTT, pinboard may create a method that he wants to reserve for his site, so that IFTTT users that target his site get an additional benefit. IFTTT wants to take that possibility away, exploit it themselves, so they can offer it to others. If it's just the API itself, well duh, as soon as people targeting the pinboard know about the API method, it's not problem to use the API declaration on another site, right? Well, if pinboard patented that API declaration, no one could. IFTTT wants to make that impossible.

    I don't think there is a legal method for IFTTT to prevent someone from patenting an API method declaration. So, they usurp the rights instead.

    I can understand why they're thinking this way. But it's definitely some Fine BrosTM shit.


    Now, where my interpretation is worse is on this point.

    2.You shall not (and shall not authorize or encourage any third party to), directly or indirectly: [...] (xii) "use the Developer Tool or Service in conjunction with a product or service that competes with products or services offered by IFTTT. You hereby make all assignments necessary to accomplish the foregoing.”

    This doesn't just mean he can't be a direct competitor. It means he has to actively ensure that no one else can access his API, including competitors of IFTTT. One could interpret "or encourage" to mean passively encouraging by allowing another service, and not actively preventing.

    Either way, it offers no protections and makes it non-falsifiable that pinboard is not-encouraging.


    Ultimately, this is very problematic. You see, there's no way to legally ascertain that my site built its API exclusively for IFTTT. So, this wording implies the ability for IFTTT to run around claiming sites built an API for their use, and that means they implicitly agree to this EULA. EULA's are shaky ground, legally.

    It makes it non-falsifiable that you aren't intending to build an API for their use. How much of their API do you have to not support before you can prove you didn't intend for IFTTT to be usable against your site? It also offers no protections.

    Again, this is a major fuck up Fine-Bros-ering. Read this EULA as saying, "This is the legal way to support dynamic web reaction-response software."



  • @xaade said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:

    But it's definitely some Fine BrosTM shit.

    I have absolutely no idea what that means.



  • @blakeyrat

    It was a similar situation.

    Fine Bros claimed they wanted to make a way for channels to sublicense their content-style.

    But then they made "react" a very ambiguous term, leading some to interpret that Fine Bros wasn't just talking about their style, but an entire genre of YouTube video.

    They had phrases like "this gives everyone a LEGAL way to make react videos". As if they were becoming the policing authority on the genre by usurping control of it through licensing, patenting, and trademarks.


    YouTube community didn't react well, and it caused Fine Bros to release an apology video where they said, "You don't understand", and then proceeded to describe the same thing in more detail, making the implications even more linked to the current fears.

    Fine Bros channel ended up losing a ton of subscribers, they came out and apologized again, and then shut down the entire project.



  • @xaade Oh the "YouTube Reacts To" thing?

    I have to admit I didn't follow that whole thing too closely because those videos are boring shit.

    And I don't know how you'd expect people to magically know "Fine Bros" is the company(?) behind it instead of just saying "YouTube Reacts To..." which is what everybody knows.



  • @blakeyrat said in IFTTT (If This Then That) Trying Its Damndest To Commit Suicide:
    And I don't know how you'd expect people to magically know "Fine Bros" is the company(?) behind it instead of just saying "YouTube Reacts To..." which is what everybody knows.

    The channel name is "Fine Bothers Entertainment"...but we digress.



  • @LB_ Who cares? Their videos are stupid.


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