Hell just froze over: MSFT announces SQL Server on Linux



  • Don't get it mush ... humour is kinda weird on the internet.


  • β™Ώ (Parody)

    @lucas said:

    How about you guys lack a sense of anything humorous.

    Actually, we laugh a lot when you're around.



  • @lucas said:

    I think I really good at JavaScript

    And engrish.



  • @Captain said:

    > I really don't understand the "OMG THE REGISTRY" thing. People act like the registry is some impenetrable magical binary. It's just a hierarchical database of containers and leaf nodes, and leaf nodes are allowed to have various values of different types. You know, just a file system.

    Uh huh.

    It would be a lot more like a file system if you could use file system-level tools to modify or track it.

    Instead, you're locked into the regedit ecosystem. Which, as far as I know, does not support any notion of configuration management. The only Microsoft page on configuration management for the registry Google found is a 404 error.

    Also, the files in /etc are typically heavily commented. Do the registry leaves support comments or is the cryptic name and a manual all you have to go on?

    So while the registry is "just" a file system, it's not a particularly manageable one. Certainly not at the level of ZFS, or even the /etc hierarchy + vim + git.

    I have no idea what you mean about "managing the registry with regedit.exe". If you're anti-GUI, there's reg.exe, and PowerShell ships with a registry provider, too. Furthermore, you don't use the registry directly to do configuration management. You use group policy, group policy preferences, or newer tools like desired state configuration.

    My experience with /etc files is that they are no more or worse documented than registry settings. I mean, yeah, sure, xorg.conf is documented, but the documentation is only helpful to an expert, which is a common problem with man pages. It's reference doc, not tutorial doc. Half the time config files are as well documented as Firefox's about:config screen -- which is to say, incomplete, out-of-date, and descriptive without being prescriptive -- or have nothing but unhelpful comments that boil down to "Enter what you're supposed to know already in this space," which is not documentation at all. None of those areas is any place for a non-expert user, and if a non-expert user needs to go to any of those locations to make a configuration change, it's a failure on the part of the OS (or application) to provide a good way for a user to configure the setting.

    Honestly, your arguments sound like, "I can't manage Windows like it's Linux!" I mean, no shit. It's not Linux. You don't get to work with character streams. You work with objects. You might dislike that philosophy or not be familiar with it, but complaining that you can't treat objects like character streams doesn't make you sound all that insightful, and complaining that there's no way to accomplish basic sysadmin tasks when clearly there must be given the size of some Wintel networks just makes you look silly.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Hmm... is JavaScript slowly turning into C#?

    Javascript and C# solve pretty much the same problem, so convergent evolution is to be expected.

    This does of course pose the question "why do we have two things to do the same thing".


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anonymous234 said:

    Javascript and C# solve pretty much the same problem

    When viewed from geosynchronous orbit, perhaps…


  • FoxDev

    @anonymous234 said:

    Javascript and C# solve pretty much the same problem

    You mean I can use C# in Firefox on Linux, and write ASP.NET MVC in JavaScript?



  • Incidentally, Microsoft now does Java?


  • FoxDev

    @Deadfast said:

    Microsoft now does Java?

    Again?



  • @RaceProUK said:

    You mean I can use C# in Firefox on Linux

    Well, I don't know much about ASP.NET MVC so I can't answer about that part, but there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to script websites in C#.


  • FoxDev

    Aside from the tiny trivial fact that no browser supports the language


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Dragnslcr said:

    One with system administrators that think that Windows Server sucks but that SQL Server isn't all that terrible?

    Soooooo...sysadmins who are right?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    If you EVER have to use RegEdit to do ANYTHING AT ALL, someone fucked up bad. Real bad.

    (Either that or you yourself are right in the middle of fucking up real bad.)

    You have a lot of articles on TechNet that you need to correct. Like, a fuckload. If you think that keeping emojis out of your topic titles is a lot of work...you are fucked. Super fucked.

    TL;DR, you are fucking wrong. Miserably wrong. And possibly retarded.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    As you should.

    Microsoft fucks up too. It's full of those nasty human being things.

    Oh fuck off. Most of the time that I have to open up regedit, it is to fix something that MS has done. Not third party.



  • They did make typescript. While clearly not c#,it's a step in the right direction


  • FoxDev

    True, but there's no native browser support yet; you need a transpiler to turn it into JavaScript. Still, as you say, it is a step in the right direction.



  • I think it may have something to do with TFS plugin, or adding C# support extension (like PDT and ADT) to Eclipse.



  • IMO, this will just confuse the beginners. (Have had a hard time help them distinguish the difference between client side and server side script tag many years ago)



  • That must be the solution. I am retarded. Thank you for enlightening me.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    You are welcome. I help where I can.


  • :belt_onion:

    @Captain said:

    Instead, you're locked into the regedit ecosystem.

    Yeah? Maybe if you're still using Windows 95. Actually, not even if you're using Windows 95. I take that back.

    Windows PowerShell Copyright (C) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    PS C:\Users\Interloper> cd HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services
    PS HKLM:\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services> dir

    Hive: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services
    

    SKC VC Name Property


    2 0 .NET CLR Data {}
    2 0 .NET CLR Networking {}
    2 0 .NET CLR Networking 4.0.0.0 {}
    2 0 .NET Data Provider for Oracle {}
    2 0 .NET Data Provider for SqlS... {}
    2 0 .NET Memory Cache 4.0 {}
    1 0 .NETFramework {}
    1 6 1394ohci {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    2 8 ACPI {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    0 6 AcpiPmi {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    0 8 ActivIdentity Shared Store ... {Type, Start, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    0 7 AdobeARMservice {Type, Start, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    1 6 adp94xx {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    1 6 adpahci {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}
    1 6 adpu320 {Start, Type, ErrorControl, ImagePath...}

    Oh, that's just a FileSystem provider wrapping lower-level functionality? So's everything important in Linux too. Who cares.



  • @BaconBits said:

    Half the time config files are as well documented as Firefox's about:config screen -- which is to say, incomplete, out-of-date, and descriptive without being prescriptive -- or have nothing but unhelpful comments that boil down to "Enter what you're supposed to know already in this space," which is not documentation at all.

    Example from apache's config file

    #
    # ServerRoot: The top of the directory tree under which the server's
    # configuration, error, and log files are kept.
    #
    # NOTE!  If you intend to place this on an NFS (or otherwise network)
    # mounted filesystem then please read the Mutex documentation (available
    # at <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#mutex>);
    # you will save yourself a lot of trouble.
    #
    # Do NOT add a slash at the end of the directory path.
    #
    #ServerRoot "/etc/apache2"
    

    Example from php config

    ; This directive determines whether or not PHP will recognize code between
    ; <? and ?> tags as PHP source which should be processed as such. It is
    ; generally recommended that <?php and ?> should be used and that this feature
    ; should be disabled, as enabling it may result in issues when generating XML
    ; documents, however this remains supported for backward compatibility reasons.
    ; Note that this directive does not control the <?= shorthand tag, which can be
    ; used regardless of this directive.
    ; Default Value: On
    ; Development Value: Off
    ; Production Value: Off
    ; http://php.net/short-open-tag
    short_open_tag = Off
    

    Example from ufw (uncomplicated firewall)

    # Set to yes to start on boot. If setting this remotely, be sure to add a rule
    # to allow your remote connection before starting ufw. Eg: 'ufw allow 22/tcp'
    ENABLED=no
    

    You are totally right, it's only unhelpful comments that boil down to "Enter what you're supposed to know already in this space", and no more or worse documented than registry settings. :rolleyes:



  • @aapis said:

    Because what enterprise is going to run MSSQL on Linux? They would already be running that shit on Azure, or some self-hosted solution w/Windows Server XXXX. I can't imagine what kind of strange, unprepared, or otherwise totally backwards company would ever consider this.

    You might have forgotten why this site exists. There is bound to be hipster Management that wants all the weird shit...



  • @lucas said:

    How would that work? Node to C# is done via marshaling as far as I know ...

    Surely async / await is done in node via the event loop?

    TPL Tasks β‰… Harmony Promises. All async/await do is tell the compiler to break up your functions into all the niggling little callback lambdas, so you can focus on writing it rather than writing (and tracking) all of the then()s.

    Oooh, I might be able to start contributing to SockBot again!@RaceProUK said:

    You mean I can use C# in Firefox on Linux,
    It's called Moonlight, part of this newfangled "WPF/Everywhere" thingy that's supposed to "light up the web"... something about "releasing your style" and skateboards... :belt_onion: @RaceProUK said:
    and write ASP.NET MVC in JavaScript?
    Technically yes. You'll find more support for it in Metro-land though.


  • FoxDev

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Oooh, I might be able to start contributing to SockBot again!

    SockBot 3.0 is likely going to be Promises-based, although since Node's version of V8 doesn't support much in the way of ES7, you won't have the async/await keywords.

    @TwelveBaud said:

    It's called Moonlight

    You mean that thing that three people used that one time? πŸ˜„

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Technically yes. You'll find more support for it in Metro-land though.

    True, the whole HTML/JS Metro app thing. But I don't recall a JS compiler for the .NET Framework itself.



  • Yep, and for every good one there's a shitty one. Try postgresql.conf:

    #------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    # QUERY TUNING
    #------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    # - Planner Method Configuration -
    
    #enable_bitmapscan = on
    #enable_hashagg = on
    #enable_hashjoin = on
    #enable_indexscan = on
    #enable_indexonlyscan = on
    #enable_material = on
    #enable_mergejoin = on
    #enable_nestloop = on
    #enable_seqscan = on
    #enable_sort = on
    #enable_tidscan = on
    

    Ok, I'll check the doc:

    enable_bitmapscan (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of bitmap-scan plan types. The default is on.

    enable_hashagg (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of hashed aggregation plan types. The default is on.

    enable_hashjoin (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of hash-join plan types. The default is on.

    enable_indexscan (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of index-scan plan types. The default is on.

    enable_indexonlyscan (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of index-only-scan plan types. The default is on.

    enable_material (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of materialization. It is impossible to suppress materialization entirely, but turning this variable off prevents the planner from inserting materialize nodes except in cases where it is required for correctness. The default is on.

    enable_mergejoin (boolean)
    Enables or disables the query planner's use of merge-join plan types. The default is on.

    Fucking brilliant!



  • There's a command line compiler, jsc:

    C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319>jsc
    Microsoft (R) JScript Compiler version 12.00.20806
    for Microsoft (R) .NET Framework version 4.0.30319
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
    
    jsc [options] <source files> [[options] <source files>...] 
    

    Everywhere in the CLR documentation with usage examples, there's a JScript usage example. With an old enough version of Visual Studio, you'll even find tooling for it, along with J# and other weird creatures.



  • Still better than this shit :

    And my Google-Fu doesn't bring me any documentation on these.

    Like you said

    @BaconBits said:

    Fucking brilliant!


  • FoxDev

    Why are you setting Outlook options directly in the Registry when there's a part of Outlook designed specifically to manage its own settings?



  • Is this better ?

    DelegateSentItemsStyle : No, there is no GUI to set it, unless you consider regedit a GUI.

    Instructions here


  • FoxDev

    @TimeBandit said:

    Instructions here

    A page just happens to describe another method that requires no registry editing at all.



  • I'd imagine those correspond to these options:

    http://i.imgur.com/D7ROYyd.png

    If you want to know what those mean, you can visit the help file.

    I'd guess they correspond to these group policy settings.

    And looking those up, if you look at the Office 2013 Admin templates, you'll find office2013grouppolicyanddoctsettings.xlsx, which lists this on row 1208 (pivoted to be more readable):

    +----------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    | File Name            | outlk15.admx                                                                                                                                                       |
    | Scope                | User                                                                                                                                                               |
    | Policy Path          | Microsoft Outlook 2013\Outlook Options\Preferences\Calendar Options                                                                                                |
    | Policy Setting Name  | Working hours                                                                                                                                                      |
    | Supported On         | At least Windows Server 2008 R2 or Windows 7                                                                                                                       |
    | Category             | Calendar Options                                                                                                                                                   |
    | Explain Text         | Sets the value in the corresponding UI option.                                                                                                                     |
    | Registry Information | HKCU\software\policies\microsoft\office\15.0\outlook\options\calendar!caldefstart, HKCU\software\policies\microsoft\office\15.0\outlook\options\calendar!caldefend |
    +----------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
    

    There's a similar one for the work week.



  • The second method just save a copy of the message to the Sent Items folder of the shared mailbox.

    I don't want a copy in my sent items, just in the shared mailbox's sent items.

    Beside, Outlook respect the DelegateSentItemsStyle setting but there is no way to set it from Outlook. πŸ‘Ž



  • That's hardly fair. DelegateSentItemsStyle was functionality added in hotfixes. In other words, it's an added option to change original design behavior:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/959628
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/970944

    And that option has since been pushed server-side:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2703723 (See Workarounds)



  • The original behavior is fuckin stupid.

    It's a shared mailbox, so multiple people can answer the email (we use it as an helpdesk address). But only the person that answered can see what the answer was ! :wtf:


  • FoxDev

    @TimeBandit said:

    I don't want a copy in my sent items

    There's this button I want to introduce you to; her name is 'Delete'.



  • There is this concept I want to introduce you to : make the computer work for you, not the other way around.


  • FoxDev

    Right, and the documentation you linked to allows you to do exactly that.



  • Yes, by using regedit :rolleyes:



  • @BaconBits said:

    Yep, and for every good one there's a shitty one. Try postgresql.conf:...

    To be fair, though, if you don't already know exactly what each of those mean, you shouldn't be messing with the settings for them. Learning how to optimize a database's query planner is far beyond the scope of a configuration file.


  • FoxDev

    @TimeBandit said:

    Yes, by using regedit :rolleyes:

    Are you sure? Because you linked to
    @RaceProUK said:
    A page just happens to describe another method that requires no registry editing at all.



  • You are just ignoring the fact that

    @TimeBandit said:

    The second method just save a copy of the message to the Sent Items folder of the shared mailbox.

    I don't want a copy in my sent items, just in the shared mailbox's sent items.

    Beside, Outlook respect the DelegateSentItemsStyle setting but there is no way to set it from Outlook.

    Ok, I get it : Outlook is perfect. I just need to delete the sent items in my folder every fuckin time I answer an email.

    Thank you Microsoft for making my life so easy πŸ™


  • BINNED

    @TimeBandit said:

    by using regeditgroup policy

    If you need this setting on multiple pc's push it with group policy and let the domein do the work for you


  • FoxDev

    And you're ignoring the fact that there are multiple ways of solving your 'problem' that don't require running regedit.exe


  • kills Dumbledore

    @TimeBandit said:

    There is this concept I want to introduce you to : make the computer work for you, not the other way around.

    This is hilarious coming from a Linux weenie



  • @Dragnslcr said:

    @BaconBits said:
    Yep, and for every good one there's a shitty one. Try postgresql.conf:...

    To be fair, though, if you don't already know exactly what each of those mean, you shouldn't be messing with the settings for them. Learning how to optimize a database's query planner is far beyond the scope of a configuration file.

    Oh, yeah, I agree. I do know what those options do, but I have no idea why you'd need to use them. I was actually hoping the doc would give me an idea of when I'd need to use those options (low memory environment?). The fact that the doc didn't explain what I already know was kind of irritating. Maybe they're primarily intended for unit testing the query planner.

    All I did, though, was pick a random config file on my toy server, page down a few times, and grab what was on the screen. There are good config files out there, but it's equally likely you'll get a plain old list if "setting=value" that don't really tell you what anything does.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    (we use it as an helpdesk address)
    How about you spend a nickel and get a real CRM system? Or even KACE?



  • @TimeBandit said:

    The original behavior is fuckin stupid.

    Maybe, but it's how it was originally designed. That means some customer will want it to stay that way.

    Their solution for customers who didn't like that was to give customers a hotfix with a registry value to alter the behavior on the client side, and then later introduce a PowerShell Cmdlet (Set-MailboxSentItemsConfiguration) to manage the configuration on the server because it really shouldn't be a client-side setting since you presumably also want the same behavior from Outlook Web Access (whichever way you want).



  • I'd assume he'd prefer Request Tracker or SpiceWorks (which, though Windows-based, is open source, AFAIK).



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    How about you spend a nickel and get a real CRM system

    Price start at $50 per user/per month. You have really big nickels πŸ˜›

    This email is only used to answer user's question about a particular system we support. For the real helpdesk support, we have a real helpdesk system, not a CRM.


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