Hell just froze over: MSFT announces SQL Server on Linux



  • @Captain said:

    Is Microsoft porting over the tools to maintain a Windows registry

    Finally, Linux users will have a GUI to edit configuration files, just like Windows.
    regedit :rolleyes:



  • They also bought xamarin. Still want to argue with me that Microsoft is posing to take over the Linux space?

    Now that Windows 10 is supposedly the last version, they are attempting to get all market share everywhere.



  • @Captain said:

    Seriously, though, how does SQL Server maintain a configuration? In the Windows registry? Is Microsoft porting over the tools to maintain a Windows registry, or are they going the parse-config-files route?

    With the exception of where to find the master database, just about everything is kept in the master database. There are a few things in the msdb database for SQL Agent and some other systems.

    "How will they maintain a registry?"

    The same way Linux maintains a registry. /etc. I really don't understand the "OMG THE REGISTRY" thing. People act like the registry is some impenetrable magical binary. It's just a hierarchical database of containers and leaf nodes, and leaf nodes are allowed to have various values of different types. You know, just a file system. Yes, you can fuck up your system by messing with the registry. You can do the same by messing with /etc. The registry is, by and large, just a combination of /etc, /dev, and the configuration files you'd find in dot folders in ~.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @BaconBits said:

    The registry is, by and large, just a combination of /etc, /dev, and the configuration files you'd find in dot folders in ~.

    I think there's some of the stuff you find in /proc in there too. Also, there's an API that supposedly allows you to do transactional updates, though I've not seen any evidence that transactions can cover changes to more than one value at a time. Nobody ever wants that. (Maybe that's changed; it would be good if so, as the lack of any transaction context except the finest-grained was the design fault with the registry API back in the Win95 era.)


  • 🚽 Regular

    @Matches said:

    They also bought xamarin. Still want to argue with me that Microsoft is posing to take over the Linux space?

    Now that Windows 10 is supposedly the last version, they are attempting to get all market share everywhere.


    Maybe Windows 11 will be based on Linux and WINE.

    I don't know this world anymore.



  • Ah, I forgot about the crossover of /proc and /dev. Or, rather, I tend to mistake /proc as just currently running processes, and not all the stuff people have shoved into /proc.


  • BINNED

    @Zecc said:

    Maybe Windows 11 will be based on Linux and WINE.

    Well, seeing that Wine is an implementation of WinAPI, maybe that's their plan on how to rewrite the damned thing from scratch on the cheap...

      🎩
    :hide:



  • They should make Windows "shared source" giving users the right (and ability) to modify and recompile their own kernels. Then we could get have Windows systems with all the efficiency and user-friendliness of Gentoo Linux.



  • @BaconBits said:

    With the exception of where to find the master database, just about everything is kept in the master database. There are a few things in the msdb database for SQL Agent and some other systems.

    You are correct. I just looked at one of my server instances and there are 12 settings in the registry for the server itself, plus a few for the networking configuration. There are a few switches to enable and disable some high-level features and the locations of the master database and log so the rest of the settings can be loaded. Pretty much anything that needs to be configured before the server is loaded to the point where it can bring the master database online is in the registry, but nothing else.



  • The Code editor is not MS technology, and the others have the same issues as MSSQL on Linux (i.e. why would anyone, anywhere, choose this for anything - though they are examples of MS tech on Linux so well done there).


  • FoxDev

    @aapis said:

    The Code editor is not MS technology

    TIL that the Microsoft's Visual Studio Code that was designed by Microsoft and was implemented by Microsoft and is published by Microsoft and is distributed by Microsoft is not Microsoft technology.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @RaceProUK said:

    TIL

    You keep saying that. You know we have a dedicated thread for that sort of thing, right? TYL


  • FoxDev

    Yeah, but that would mean finding it, and I can't be arsed



  • @RaceProUK said:

    TIL that the Microsoft's Visual Studio Code that was designed by Microsoft and was implemented by Microsoft and is published by Microsoft and is distributed by Microsoft is not Microsoft technology.

    But did they?

    It's based heavily on Electron, which was written by GitHub... not Microsoft.



  • @cartman82 said:

    I learned this hard way on my own skin.You do NOT want to host SQL Server + IIS on the same server.

    QFT! >_</*



  • But did they?

    Electron is based heavily on Node, which was written by Joyent, not GitHub.
    Node is based heavily on V8, which was written by Google, not Joyent.
    V8 is based heavily on JaegerMonkey, which was written by Mozilla, not Google.
    JaegerMonkey is based heavily on whatever Brendan Eich called his LiveScript engine, which was written by Netscape, not properly Mozilla.

    How far do you want me to take this? And what was your point?



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    How far do you want me to take this?

    To the beginning


  • Garbage Person

    The implementation lineage really only goes back to the Intel 4004.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    The cost of the OS SQL Server runs on was already only a tiny portion of the cost of SQL Server itself.

    $700 is $700, even if you have to spend a shitload more than that for SQL server.

    Maybe if it is on Linux it will have better uptime now? 🚎



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Maybe if it is on Linux it will have better uptime now?

    No, since it will update itself and just reboot whenever it feels like it 😉


  • FoxDev

    @powerlord said:

    @RaceProUK said:
    TIL that the Microsoft's Visual Studio Code that was designed by Microsoft and was implemented by Microsoft and is published by Microsoft and is distributed by Microsoft is not Microsoft technology.

    But did they?

    It's based heavily on Electron, which was written by GitHub... not Microsoft.

    So it's based on something else; it's not exactly rare


  • FoxDev

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Node is based heavily on V8, which was written by Google, not Joyent.

    They recently accepted patches that would allow Node to run on MS's JS engine Chakra, so maybe things will change? ;)



  • @RaceProUK said:

    They recently accepted patches that would allow Node to run on MS's JS engine Chakra, so maybe things will change? 😉

    Not only that; but the Chakra build apparantly has better performance than the V8 build and implements a boatload more ES6+7 features than the V8 builds, mostly because the V8 build that Node uses is shit-old.


  • FoxDev

    Wait, does that mean if I get Node on Chakra, I can use async/await with Promises?

    Hmm... is JavaScript slowly turning into C#?



  • FUCKING SUPER HYPE FOR THIS SHIT

    CLEGANEBOWL.avi – 03:32
    — MrVenturboy

    ASP CORE and SQL SERVER ON LINUX

    FUCKING HYPE MOTHER FUCKERS

    Been doing OWIN and Web API 2 now stuff for a while now and this is basically like the perfect storm.

    I tend to do a lot of front end stuff that requires shit that @blakeyrat doesn't like, and doesn't quite work properly on Windows as yet (well it does but it is difficult). I tend to use either node / python / OWIN with .NET 4.6 depending on what project.

    The big problem was always SQL SERVER. It is pretty solid even in the "Express editions" and now it is going to be on Linux ... well it is that or Postgres as the sensible options if you do anything that is serious with the database.

    Microsoft is creating the Perfect Storm ... and I really hope they deliver better than the ASP.NET 5 / ASP CORE / whatever you are supposed to call the open source version this week.



  • Hmm... is JavaScript slowly turning into C#?

    Yes, and C# is slowly turning into Haskell.


  • FoxDev

    Nah, C# is still useful 🚎



  • @aapis said:

    Because what enterprise is going to run MSSQL on Linux?

    One with system administrators that think that Windows Server sucks but that SQL Server isn't all that terrible?



  • Since the var keyword was introduced I can barely tell the difference.

    When I write JS code I feel like this:

    Skwisgaar Skwigelfs Ultimate Guitar Solo - Crush my Battle Opponents Balls [WITH GUITAR TABS] – 01:02
    — ImpressiveJerk

    When I write C# I feel like this:

    https://vimeo.com/54739845



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Wait, does that mean if I get Node on Chakra, I can use async/await with Promises?

    They're specifically touting that as a feature, iirc.



  • @Ragnax said:

    They're specifically touting that as a feature, iirc.

    How would that work? Node to C# is done via marshaling as far as I know ...

    Surely async / await is done in node via the event loop?

    EDIT: It is proposed solution.



  • We must fulful the prophecy of the Atwood.



  • I really don't understand the "OMG THE REGISTRY" thing. People act like the registry is some impenetrable magical binary. It's just a hierarchical database of containers and leaf nodes, and leaf nodes are allowed to have various values of different types. You know, just a file system.

    Uh huh.

    It would be a lot more like a file system if you could use file system-level tools to modify or track it.

    Instead, you're locked into the regedit ecosystem. Which, as far as I know, does not support any notion of configuration management. The only Microsoft page on configuration management for the registry Google found is a 404 error.

    Also, the files in /etc are typically heavily commented. Do the registry leaves support comments or is the cryptic name and a manual all you have to go on?

    So while the registry is "just" a file system, it's not a particularly manageable one. Certainly not at the level of ZFS, or even the /etc hierarchy + vim + git.



  • @Captain said:

    Instead, you're locked into the regedit ecosystem.

    If you EVER have to use RegEdit to do ANYTHING AT ALL, someone fucked up bad. Real bad.

    (Either that or you yourself are right in the middle of fucking up real bad.)



  • @Captain said:

    Instead, you're locked into the regedit ecosystem. Which, as far as I know, does not support any notion of configuration management. The only Microsoft page on configuration management for the registry Google found is a 404 error.

    Why does it matter you are only into the regedit ecosystem when you are obviously targeting windows if you happen to care about it?

    Also why aren't you using the fucking APIs available that Windows exposes?

    Why can't a key value store work on Linux ... oh wait they already do ...

    @Captain said:

    Also, the files in /etc are typically heavily commented. Do the registry leaves support comments or is the cryptic name and a manual all you have to go on?

    No it is just a key value store, it is pretty simple to understand tbh. Not fully documented no, but tbh I worked with worse JSON APIs.



  • Why does it matter you are only into the regedit ecosystem when you are obviously targeting windows if you happen to care about it?

    Duh, not if Microsoft uses a registry to configure their new Linux ports.

    Also why aren't you using the fucking APIs available that Windows exposes?

    Because we're talking about Linux ports of Microsoft software.

    Why can't a key value store work on Linux ... oh wait they already do ...

    They sure do. And binary key-value stores are a huge pain in the ass compared to text-editable key-value stores. Even on Linux.



  • @Captain said:

    They sure do. And binary key-value stores are a huge pain in the ass compared to text-editable key-value stores. Even on Linux

    Why?

    If there is an API to serialise / deserialise what is the problem? other than this magic crap about "everything must be in text".



  • @Captain said:

    Duh, not if Microsoft uses a registry to configure their new Linux ports.

    They aren't going to do that. They have already abandoned a lot of the csproj equivalent stuff, I suspect the same will happen with the move to SQL Server on Linux.

    @Captain said:

    Because we're talking about Linux ports of Microsoft software.

    You was talking about the fucking registry ...



  • Do you really want all your configuration files to be arbitrary computer programs that call arbitrary functions? Or do you want them to be data that gets slurped up by their consumer?

    You was talking about the fucking registry ...

    Good job! Can you figure out why?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    If you EVER have to use RegEdit to do ANYTHING AT ALL, someone fucked up bad. Real bad.

    I'll remember that next time an MS article tells me to fix some problem by using regedit. :rolleyes:



  • As you should.

    Microsoft fucks up too. It's full of those nasty human being things.



  • @Captain said:

    Do you really want all your configuration files to be arbitrary computer programs that call arbitrary functions? Or do you want them to be data that gets slurped up by their consumer

    In some way pretty much all of them are ... it depends which ones you happen to be happy with.

    You know Node/JavaScript environments uses JSON, Python can use ini which needs a specific parser. .NET stuff tends to use XML stuff so you would need an XML parser. It is kinda plain text ... but it really fucking isn't.

    I dunno what your point is ... You are going to need some small program to parse it at some point.

    If you go deep enough the OS is "some arbitrary computer programs than call functions" ... it doesn't mean anything.

    Stop talking bollox.


  • Garbage Person

    @Captain said:

    Duh, not if Microsoft uses a registry to configure their new Linux ports.

    HAY GUIZE LETS IGNORE ALL THE GOOD SHIT GOING ON AND CONCENTRATE ON HEARSAY AND SPECULATION ABOUT PORTING AN ENTIRE COMPLETELY UNRELATED SECTION OF A COMPLETELY UNRELATED PRODUCT TO LINUX BECAUSE SQL USES IT FOR MINOR ANCILLARY BOOTSTRAPPING TASKS WHICH ARE EASILY PORTED TO ANOTHER SYSTEM IN TWENTY MINUTES.

    Worrying about the SQL Server team porting the registry to Linux is like worrying about Valve porting DirectX.



  • Hmm, well, at least now we know you're crazy.



  • For quite obviously jokey posts?

    God help any real satire.

    FYI

    I think I really good at JavaScript, to the point I enjoy programming it. I am also think I am decent at C#.



  • I was going to post the fail message the vimeo video you linked had, so what I said was meant as a caption, but the uploading is still going despite this being a different post now.


  • BINNED

    @Magus said:

    Hmm, well, at least now we know you're crazy.

    Some of us knew that before he posted those videos. 🚎



  • How about you guys lack a sense of anything humorous. It obviously wasn't supposed to be serious unless you are a moron.



  • @BaconBits said:

    "How will they maintain a registry?"

    Fear will keep the local systems in line.

    Fear of this battle stationthe possibility that they might port regedit.

    However, the ability to destroy enterprise web sites is insignificant beside the power of the FOSS (to ruin corporate infrastructures).


  • BINNED

    @lucas said:

    How about you guys lack a sense of anything humorous. It obviously wasn't supposed to be serious unless you are a moron.

    :whoosh:


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