🔥 I see Korean mercenaries talking to the same restaurant in Utah! Should I go eat 💩?!
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Stop me in the street, especially if I say I'm in a hurry and I will troll you.
Years ago, I used to take light rail to work. There were sometimes JW missionaries handing out Watchtower at my station. My usual practice was simply to keep my eyes straight ahead and refuse to acknowledge their existence. On one occasion, they actually encouraged me to do so.
The tracks were elevated at that station, and to get to the platform, one had to go through an underpass under the southbound tracks and up a longish flight of stairs, then a way down the platform itself to get to where the train stopped. Because of the distance and the stairs, if I was entering the station when my train was approaching, I had perhaps a 20% chance of making it if I ran for it.
One day, these two things — the JWs and the approaching train — coincided. This gave me the perfect excuse to ignore the JWs, and they were actually cheering for me as I sprinted past them.
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I'm not sure if the same laws apply over there but here if someone comes to my door and I ask them to leave my property* and they fail to leave, or return after they have been informed that they are not welcome I can have them arrested and/or prosecuted for trespass.
There are also several advocacy groups that you can probably contact if you run into proselytes or political canvassers that do not respect your right to tell them to get off your property and leave you alone. Although i have never found it necessary as all the religious groups in the area have been really good about respecting my request, and the one time a group did violate my request it was a mistake in copying out the list of addresses not to skip. they apologized for the intrusion and promised to be more careful next time (it hasn't happened again)
The political fellows are more painful to get rid of, but i find that if they ignore my polite request to leave my next level request** almost always suffices
As for being stopped in the street. It's amazing how many people fail to stop you when you're wearing a big-ass pair of circumaural headphones and wave them off with a smile on your face while you continue walking. If they do stop you and ask you to sign something i find signing: "Mickey Mouse, 1600 Pensylvania Ave, DC 20500, leavemealone@example.com" works quite effectively for getting them to leave you alone
* My standard request is: "Thank you for your interest, I am not interested in your religious/political(delete whichever is inappropriate) views and would ask you to remove me from your visits in future. Thank you, and have a wonderful day/evening(delete whichever is inappropriate).
** "I have asked you to leave, if you do not do so i will summon the police to have you removed from my property. Please leave, NOW."
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Persist and I will troll you.
Do not shy away from the art of trolling. It is good for them too. It is a learning experience to become a perfect salesperson. They learn to get shit from anyone, smile and sell the crappiest of products afterwards.
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It's amazing how many people fail to stop you when you're wearing a big-ass pair of circumaural headphones
Especially the cat-ear ones, amirite?
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I didn't know that the almighty was concerned about taxation.
I said nothing about taxation.
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Once you introduce levels of rewards, it's no longer salvation.
Well, I guess the heaven/hell dichotomy that most of Christianity preaches just made Christ a liar, then.
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Especially the cat-ear ones, amirite?
you know.... i really should take those out of the box and see if they even fit.....
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Well, I guess the heaven/hell dichotomy that most of Christianity preaches just made Christ a liar, then.
You miss out that heaven is not a reward.
Hell is a place of punishment for Satan and the fallen angels.Humans are cast into hell because they refuse and despise God.
Humans are let into heaven because Jesus died.
In most of Christian doctrine, there is nothing that a human does that justifies them, they are justified by Christ.
just made Christ a liar.
"Why do you call me good? None is good but the father" - Christ
So, heaven as a reward is not most of Christianity's doctrine.
The fact that you responded "matter of factly" demonstrates to me that you've completely missed out on that. I don't know if it because of your Mormon beliefs, or not.
In fact, Paul says that it is because of grace and the fact that grace is uniquely Christian, in no other religion as it is in Christianity, that allows people to continue to follow Christ at all. If it weren't for grace, humanity would all be dead.
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The church would have lost their tax free status due to polygamy issues and suddenly it is revealed through prayer that maybe the whole polygamy thing wasn't a good idea.
I highly doubt that the revelations was divine, unless God lives in your wallet.
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That's one breed of Christianity.
Over the centuries, there's also been churches who believed in salvation by works, following Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?". The idea is that if you are truly in a state of salvation, you will naturally gravitate toward good works, and if you do not, something is lacking in your heart to achieve a true state of salvation.
Grace vs Works is hardly a unique problem to Mormons.
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I don't run for trains or buses, my dignity is more important than catching a train.
*picks nose*
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The church would have lost their tax free status due to polygamy issues
No, you misunderstood. At the time the church was threatened with no longer being legally recognized at all. Sure, tax status would have been lost, but so would a lot of other things. Then again, we had technically left the United States over other issues. When Utah was initially settled by the LDS Church, it was not yet part of the US in any way. It's not like we couldn't have done that again.
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That's one breed of Christianity.
Over the centuries, there's also been churches who believed in salvation by works, following Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?". The idea is that if you are truly in a state of salvation, you will naturally gravitate toward good works, and if you do not, something is lacking in your heart to achieve a true state of salvation.
Grace vs Works is hardly a unique problem to Mormons.
Indeed. In fact, our belief on this front is kind of two pronged. The first comes from James chapter 2:
@James 2 said:
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
So, much as you said, faith is not sufficient unless it compels you to do good deeds.
The second point on this matter is that nothing we can do is sufficient to attain salvation. In the Second Book of Nephi (in The Book of Mormon) it says:
@2 Nephi 25 said:
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
In short, the Lord expects us to be our best, to be the best we can, but no matter how many good works we perform, no matter how well we follow the commandments, it will never be enough. But that's ok, because his grace has paid the price of our salvation. The works are only requisite as evidence of the honesty of our faith. Merely believing is not enough, for the devils and those like Cain believe, and they cannot be saved.
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No, you misunderstood. At the time the church was threatened with no longer being legally recognized at all. Sure, tax status would have been lost, but so would a lot of other things. Then again, we had technically left the United States over other issues. When Utah was initially settled by the LDS Church, it was not yet part of the US in any way. It's not like we couldn't have done that again.
Actually, I just did some reading. Religious organizations were not formally granted any sort of tax exempt status (though it may have been done informally) in the United Stated until the Tariff Act of 1894. Since the LDS Church stopped the practice of polygamy in 1890, it seems that any formal tax status could not have been at risk.
[cite]
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Religious organizations were not formally granted any sort of tax exempt status (though it may have been done informally) in the United Stated until the Tariff Act of 1894.
It wasn't about the church paying taxes. That tax didn't exist yet. There wasn't any corporate income tax for there to be an exemption, until the Tariff Act created the corporate income tax and granted religious organizations an exemption to it.
It was about the members paying taxes. Donations to religious organizations are tax-deductible. With some clever financial manipulations, and a complicit church, the individual members of the church can make it look like the church owns almost everything and they personally had almost no taxable income. I've heard that Mormons were very big on exploiting such tax loopholes.
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Grace vs Works is hardly a unique problem to Mormons.
Didn't mean to imply that.
I'd say the same to a Puritan.
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those like Cain believe, and they cannot be saved
That's an assumption, unless you have some kind of revelation in your books.
Cain walks off to not be heard from.
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The church would have lost their tax free status due to polygamy issues and suddenly it is revealed through prayer that maybe the whole polygamy thing wasn't a good idea.
That is the advantage of having a living prophet, he can call his daddy anytime to get the latest list of sins. You never know, have to check every day to see if adultery is still a sin, or if Blacks can go to church today.
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@abarker said:
those like Cain believe, and they cannot be saved
That's an assumption, unless you have some kind of revelation in your books.
Is it? The account of Cain and Abel in Genesis chapter 4 has Cain giving offerings to the Lord and speaking to Him. I'd say Cain not only believed, he knew of God's existence.
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This reminds me of Dogma.
"You know for a fact that there is a God. He has spoken to you personally. Yet I just heard you claim to be an atheist."
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If you know, can you truly be said to believe?
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"I refuse to prove I exist," says God, "for Proof denies Faith and without Faith I am nothing."
"Ah," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It proves you exist so therefore by your own logic, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh, I hadn't thought of that," says God and promptly vanishes in a puff of his own logic.Or something like that, anyway?
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@abarker said:
No, you misunderstood.
I don't think I do.
It was quite obvious for the preservation of of your faith you could either choose to oppose it locally or just accept it.
Nice, dragging this into other topics, like you did last time, just before you vanished for 6 months or so. I'm nearly tempted to push this and see if I can get you to ragequit again. Nearly.
Anyway, from what you posted before, it's clear you didn't fully understand what was written. From what you've written now, it's clear you are ignoring my correction and focusing on something else. Whatever. That's your problem, not mine.
From past experience with you it is clear that you have serious problems when it comes to religious people. Where those problems come from, I don't know and I don't care. But you might as well give up trying to start a fight with me now because you are joining my mute-and-ignore list.
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Nice, dragging this into other topics, like you did last time, just before you vanished for 6 months or so. I'm nearly tempted to push this and see if I can get you to ragequit again. Nearly.
What other topics, I didn't rage quit btw ... I was under a whole lot of NDAs which stopped me from making any conversation about anything.
Anyway, from what you posted before, it's clear you didn't fully understand what was written. From what you've written now, it's clear you are ignoring my correction and focusing on something else. Whatever. That's your problem, not mine.
I fully understood what you said. You choose to ignore my quite obvious complaint which it took 3 obvious bait comments for you to get I was being a dick about stuff.
From past experience with you it is clear that you have serious problems when it comes to religious people. Where those problems come from, I don't know and I don't care. But you might as well give up trying to start a fight with me now because you are joining my mute-and-ignore list.
I don't care what people believe as I am agnostic. I have Jewish, Muslim and Christian friends ... I honestly don't fucking care what anyone believes.
However your "faith" is quite obviously a dude was talking a load of shite and the history supports this.
You can have a mute/ignore list for people like me because we say stuff to you that you don't want to read. If that is how weak you "faith" is. I've already won motherfucker.
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Bullshit. You care enough about what people believe to mock them for it, to get your ounce of smug superiority.
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Prove me wrong by my words or fuck off.
I said my reasoning in the previous comment. If you don't like it, argue and not personal attacks.
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I mock people for bullshit beliefs. Like Mormonism, Christianity, Islamic, Judaism and a whole lot of beliefs I think are complete bullshit.
I expect people to mock me for the silly things I believe but at not point do I think my beliefs are beyond approach,
People like @abarker don't care about what you or I believe they only care about promoting what they believe.
He ducked out of the conversation moment I actually asked him anything difficult. Which is more telling than anything else I happen to say.
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Firstly, do you understand what faith means? It means holding a belief that do not require support from facts.
Secondly, your own quotes:
I fully understood what you said. You choose to ignore my quite obvious complaint which it took 3 obvious bait comments for you to get I was being a dick about stuff.
This isn't arguing, this is insulting. Aka personal attacks. Before I follow your rules, I'd like you to follow your own.
I don't care what people believe as I am agnostic. I have Jewish, Muslim and Christian friends
Agnosticism doesn't mean you don't care about others' beliefs, it just means you don't know if there is a god, or gods, or not. The two things are not actually related.
... I honestly don't fucking care what anyone believes.
However your "faith" is quite obviously a dude was talking a load of shite and the history supports this.
And here's the bullshit.
You state in one sentence that you don't care what anyone believes. If you actually didn't care, you would be quite content to let abarker's faith be what it is, his choice of belief structure supported by less evidence than it takes to convince you.
The fact you outright mock it is clearly not a sign that you "don't care" because if you didn't care, you wouldn't say anything.
You can have a mute/ignore list for people like me because we say stuff to you that you don't want to read. If that is how weak you "faith" is. I've already won motherfucker.
So you contradict yourself, declare yourself victorious just because you're actually a self entitled pick with a superiority issue, throw a personal insult out for good measure and then demand people argue using facts and logic when they call you on your bullshit.
Hypocrisy level: it's over 9000!!!
And your last post, you mock people for bullshit beliefs as you call them. People who don't care what others believe either let it lie because it's a non issue for them, or they're self entitled pricks who do the exact same thing as the thing they're denouncing!
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I'd say Cain not only believed, he knew of God's existence.
No no, the part where Cain can't be saved.
His curse was to be exiled and unable to grow crops.
That's pretty bad, but it speaks nothing about where he'll end up.
Whereas David had his friend and best soldier creatively killed over Bathsheba, and he is praised for being a man after God's own heart.
Unless your books have more to tell, you don't know if Cain is unable to be saved.
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Firstly, do you understand what faith means? It means holding a belief that do not require support from facts.
Yes I do undestand, I think it is stupid.
This isn't arguing, this is insulting. Aka personal attacks. Before I follow your rules, I'd like you to follow your own.
I have had Christian, Jewish, and Muslim people say that thing are stupid and/or offensive. It isn't an argument against anything.
You state in one sentence that you don't care what anyone believes. If you actually didn't care, you would be quite content to let abarker's faith be what it is, his choice of belief structure supported by less evidence than it takes to convince you.
The fact you outright mock it is clearly not a sign that you "don't care" because if you didn't care, you wouldn't say anything.
He mentioned his beliefs, I didn't .. I didn't ever mention them first. I just pointed out the stupid shit and then he decided he didn't want to talk to me, probably because he can't defend his belief against the most basic scrutiny.
So you contradict yourself, declare yourself victorious just because you're actually a self entitled pick with a superiority issue, throw a personal insult out for good measure and then demand people argue using facts and logic when they call you on your bullshit.
It was suppose to be antagonistic you fucking idiot
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Prove Jesus doesn't love me.
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Why would I do that.
It'd be like proving the Earth is flat.
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The Arabs proved the Earth wasn't flat by making some simple measurements. This isn't the fucking issue anyway.
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The Arabs proved the Earth wasn't flat by making some simple measurements. This is the fucking issue.
Except you can't really prove the Earth exists.
You can prove we perceive something, can measure it, and interact with it, but proving something exists, or that we even perceive its true nature is impossible.
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Except you can't really prove the Earth exists.
I am fucking on it mother fucker. I will do videos of the gravitational constant you cunt.
You can prove we perceive something, can measure it, and interact with it, but proving something exists, or that we even perceive its true nature is impossible.
Rene Descartes you fucking fuck. "I think therefore I am".
Swing another bellend, because this argument is getting riduculous.
The fact is that everyone is being PC about @abarker's beliefs which are bullshit.
I am the only one to have a pair between the legs to fucking say it,
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Rene Descartes you fucking fuck. "I think therefore I am".
Doubt is one way of understanding what I've said.
How about this, have we always perceived quarks?
What if, one day, we find out all matter is 10 dimensional?
I don't even need doubt to show that you can't prove something exists or that you perceive it correctly.
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The point being is that the Mormon church decided it would be fucking easier to not oppose some regulation after some "divine" (read no divine) revelation.
@abarker decided he not could deal with some basic criticism and decided he he would block me because he was a fuckign pussy and his shit didn't wash with anyone with any fucking basic question about it.
More shame him than I.
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The point being is that the Mormon church decided it would be fucking easier to not oppose some regulation after some "divine" (read no divine) revelation.
Would you prefer if the church fought every legislation it didn't agree with.
Oh, let's say, abortion laws, or gay marriage laws.
crickets chirping
I don't suppose God is still okay with it, but "Give to Caesar what Caesar's" could apply to it not being worth the cost to defend, since polygamy is non-essential.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose.
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Would you prefer if the church fought every legislation it didn't agree with.
Yes, at least it would be legit and everything would be be proven or not.
I don't suppose God is still okay with it, but "Give to Caesar what Caesar's" could apply to it not being worth the cost to defend, since polygamy is non-essential.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose.
It sound like archaic shit, I don't care for it. As I said I am agnostic.
But you are doing the old "I will use piece of scripture to prove my position"
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Yes, at least it would be legit and everything would be be proven or not.
Do you fight every legislation you disagree with?
Remember, the options are to
- break the law
- lobby
Sitting at home and bitching is not fighting legislation.
I suppose you aren't legit then.But you are doing the old "I will use piece of scripture to prove my position"
You mean like Jesus did?
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Do you fight every legislation you disagree with?
No, the options you gave aren't realistic as I don't live in your country.
The rest of your complaints were bitching tbh.
Try fucking harder to make me look like a dickhead.
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And your last post, you mock people for bullshit beliefs as you call them.
When believers come and knock at your door, mocking them is fair game. Keep it to themselves, and do not flaunt it in public, and they wont get mocked.
Mocking beliefs (and not the believers) is in also a fair game, because ideas leap from mind to mind they must be mocked for vaccination.The fact you outright mock it is clearly not a sign that you "don't care" because if you didn't care, you wouldn't say anything.
Agreed, not caring is quite opposite mocking.
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No, the options you gave aren't realistic as I don't live in your country.
Um.... ok....
Then in your own country.
Look... this conversation is pretty pointless.
You're criticizing a group for following the law that is usually criticized for wanting to change the law.
But when you view people as individuals rather than the organizations they belong to, your complaint falls apart. Some people don't have the time or resources to try to change law that impacts them in a non-essential way.
Your criticism is something I'd expect out of a prepubescent teenager.
"They aren't being true to themselves."
When that expectation has a high cost, and requires nothing from the person speaking it.
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You are talking complete shite. When you have an argument about anything I will reply.
This is what @abarker and co rely on.
EDIT: everyone acts PC etc to them.
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You are talking complete shite. When you have an argument about anything I will reply.
Um... ok.
That's kind of what I've been telling you.
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That you have been talking shite .. don't think you mean that!
It is quite obvious to me that God doesn't care about your taxes. however for @abarker the almighty does care about your taxe.
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Not worth the time.
I understand why you were blocked.
It is quite obvious to me that God doesn't care about your taxes
I just gave you scripture showing the exact opposite.
Look, if you're going to argue about who God is with a Christian, then you argue it within the context.
Otherwise, we might as well just set up a strawman army because the discussion is pointless.
