When to use chip-enabled card?
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NFC, but it does.
My cards are not chip and PIN, but here is what I see.
Swipe card, machine says you can't do that, insert card, wait, wait, wait, wait some more, enter PIN, wait, wait, wait, wait some more...keep waiting, then it finishes the transaction.
I checkout next and paying takes 2-3 seconds total.
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But doesn't that mean you can't use it to "pre-scan" your card like you can with the magstripe? Wouldn't that mean the stupid machine has to wait for a total before you can use it?
I don't believe it does - the authorization should be able to approve a wildcard amount.
That's not a step forward at all, if true. That's going in reverse.
It may be, from a user experience standpoint, if that's true, but from a security standpoint it's much better.
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Swipe card, machine says you can't do that, insert card, wait, wait, wait, wait some more, enter PIN, wait, wait, wait, wait some more...keep waiting, then it finishes the transaction.
I checkout next and paying takes 2-3 seconds total.
What if the person doesn't try the wrong method first?Here it's typically about 3/4 seconds between "insert card" and "remove card" during which the machine is getting the payment authorised.
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@blakeyrat said:
I have no idea why it didn't work at the grocery store
They seem to be really bad about switching over. Not a single one I've tried has supported the chip yet.
Yeah, easily half of the stores with a chip-compatible (and NFC-compatible, for that matter...) POS device don't use it. Which bugs the hell out of me...
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@Polygeekery said:
Swipe card, machine says you can't do that, insert card, wait, wait, wait, wait some more, enter PIN, wait, wait, wait, wait some more...keep waiting, then it finishes the transaction.
I checkout next and paying takes 2-3 seconds total.
What if the person doesn't try the wrong method first?Here it's typically about 3/4 seconds between "insert card" and "remove card" during which the machine is getting the payment authorised.
Compared to like 1 second when swiping.
Personally, I don't mind the delay, because the security, IMO, is worth it. But it does take longer...
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How is it longer for the machine to actually authorise the payment with the card issuer when using chip & PIN compared to signing it?
TDEMS.
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How is it longer for the machine to actually authorise the payment with the card issuer when using chip & PIN compared to signing it?TDEMS.
Quite probably because American banks are making a hash of it.
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How is it longer for the machine to actually authorise the payment with the card issuer when using chip & PIN compared to signing it?
TDEMS.Signature usually isn't required.
It appears to take longer too because with the chip, you need to keep the card in the thing while authorizing. When you swipe, you can put the card away, grab the bags, whatever.
Also, Americans are lazy and pretty much don't care about security, especially if it gets in the way of being lazy. So yeah, my fellow countrymen are probably TRWTF
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Here it's typically about 3/4 seconds between "insert card" and "remove card" during which the machine is getting the payment authorised.
it's ca. 30 seconds for me when i use the chip and pin method... FOC why, but it's highly annoying.
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@loopback0 said:
How is it longer for the machine to actually authorise the payment with the card issuer when using chip & PIN compared to signing it?
TDEMS.Signature usually isn't required.
So, they took the one (fucking poor) piece of security and threw it away‽ Just…
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@loopback0 said:
How is it longer for the machine to actually authorise the payment with the card issuer when using chip & PIN compared to signing it?TDEMS.
Quite probably because American banks are making a hash of it.
Clearly.
There's no way that "insert card, enter PIN, wait for authorisation, remove card" should be much slower than "swipe card, sign card, wait for authorisation"
edit: It's probably slower to enter the PIN if this is true.
@sloosecannon said:Signature usually isn't required.
That's retarded.
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Yeah, easily half of the stores with a chip-compatible (and NFC-compatible, for that matter...) POS device don't use it. Which bugs the hell out of me...
I would say 90% of the places I've been going to since October still don't support using the chip. And some that DO are using signature instead of PIN. I've taken to drawing little pictures--Sam's Club will put your "signature" on the receipt.
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it's ca. 30 seconds for me when i use the chip and pin method... FOC why, but it's highly annoying.
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it's ca. 30 seconds for me when i use the chip and pin method
Probably the retailer's fault. I'm seeing a few seconds after the cashier hits the total button.
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That's retarded.
But why would I want to sign things? I JUST WANT MY GROCERIES!!!!!!!!1elevn
I would say 90% of the places I've been going to since October still don't support using the chip. And some that DO are using signature instead of PIN. I've taken to drawing little pictures--Sam's Club will put your "signature" on the receipt.
Yeah, I've seen no chip-and-PIN. Only signature. Which half of the time they don't even ask for
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You guys are really trusting when it comes to your money, I see.
I guess we just have less shitty stores than you're used to? Where we get charged what we expect?
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@Lorne_Kates said:
You know, as opposed to the minimum wage drone who isn't paid enough to care. OH WAIT MORE REASONS WHY HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE IS GOOD
Sure, keep rationalizing your racism and economic illiteracy.
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Probably the retailer's fault. I'm seeing a few seconds after the cashier hits the total button.
probably, this is the same retailer that the card swipe thing says to swipe as soon as the first item is scanned, but if you swipe before the cashier presses the button that ends the scan items portion of the transaction it voids the entire transaction.
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@blakeyrat said:
I have no idea why it didn't work at the grocery store
They seem to be really bad about switching over. Not a single one I've tried has supported the chip yet.
My store is slowly replacing all of their old machines with newer ones that are chip capable. I suspect they're going to turn them on pretty soon. I think pretty much all of the registers have them now.
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What retailer is this? So I know which one to avoid next time I'm State-side ;)
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Also, Americans are lazy and pretty much don't care about security, especially if it gets in the way of being lazy. So yeah, my fellow countrymen are probably TRWTF
At least for credit cards, you pretty much never see the cost of fraud. It's all dealt with by the banks and / or the merchants. So why should I care about something that from my point of view basically doesn't exist?
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What retailer is this? So I know which one to avoid next time I'm State-side ;)
CVS. and you should avoid them if at all possible.
they are massively overpriced and proud of it.
i mean i assume they are, it's the only explanation i can think of for their prices.
they're also the only pharmacy within walking distance of the office.
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probably, this is the same retailer that the card swipe thing says to swipe as soon as the first item is scanned, but if you swipe before the cashier presses the button that ends the scan items portion of the transaction it voids the entire transaction.
Yeah, maybe find a better retailer?
The convenience store nearest me had this bizarro update about a year and a half ago to their terminals where it would ask you if you wanted credit or debit--but you couldn't hit the button or ti would cancel the transaction! You had to wait for the cashier to ask you what you wanted and hit the right key herself. Took them--literally--about a year to fix THAT.
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My store is slowly replacing all of their old machines with newer ones that are chip capable.
Everyone should have had on by October. Here, everyone, even small convenience stores, have them. It's just that nobody's using the chip. Madness.
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CVS. and you should avoid them if at all possible.
10-4they are massively overpriced and proud of it.
i mean i assume they are, it's the only explanation i can think of for their prices.
That's pretty shittythey're also the only pharmacy within walking distance of the office.
Do supermarkets not sell the same stuff much cheaper? Could be worth stocking up so you don't have to go to the overpriced pharmacy.
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Do supermarkets not sell the same stuff much cheaper?
yes. also the office provides most of the usuals... but when you're so far out of it because cold you probably should have stayed home and what you really, relly , rally need right now is some dayquil to lift the fog enough for you to get something done, or get you home safe.... you don't have much choice.
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Only you could spell one word three different ways in a row
will it disappoint you if i only added the third because i notice the error in the second?
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CVS. and you should avoid them if at all possible.
Oh god. CVS sucks.
About the time you were 5, they lost a lawsuit because they would deliberately take a long time to fill prescriptions in the hope that you'd buy a bunch of other stuff while waiting.
Walgreen's sucks too. That's why I was glad when Walmart came to New England--although admittedly, the first ones in Boston seemed to draw all kinds of skeevy People of Walmar types at first. Nowhere else I've lived have I seen that, though.
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@RaceProUK said:
Only you could spell one word three different ways in a row
will it disappoint you if i only added the third because i notice the error in the second?
No ;)
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Oh goddess. CVS sucks.
agreed, but the nearest walgreens is not on the peninsula, Hanaford is closer but a bit too far to walk, drivings an option but getting a parkling spot in the garage after 10AM is a crapshoot
walmart's about 10 miles away from the office, and shaws.... we don't talk about shaws....
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@boomzilla said:
My store is slowly replacing all of their old machines with newer ones that are chip capable.
Everyone should have had on by October. Here, everyone, even small convenience stores, have them. It's just that nobody's using the chip. Madness.
Interesting. Maybe they've been hit with some liability and are working to switch over then. Either way...it's still not a cost I see so who knows?
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walmart's about 10 miles away from the office, and shaws.... we don't talk about shaws....
LOL!
I moved from Boston in mid-2000. In about 2010 I was cleaning the pantry and found a Lipton Cup'o'soup with a Shaw's price sticker on it.
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and it was probably as edible then as it was when new.
The stuff's actually edible when fresh. When I found it in the closet and had a cup, it tasted weird, so I looked for an expiration date and didn't find one, but I did find the Shaw's sticker, which put a minimum bound on how old it was.
Didn't get sick or anything, though, so it was technically still edible.
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My advice would be to destroy the magnetic stripe from your card. It's too easy to clone, and too insecure to live.
Filed Under: (money was withdrawn by author, will be spent on pizza in 24 hours unless flagged)
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Works great when 90% of retailers don't have any capability to use anything other than mag-stripes...
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Thankfully, most retailers in Europe have welcomed the 21st century; I wouldn't be surprised to see the magstripe vanish completely within the next 10-20 years.
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Using the chip takes a lot longer than the stripe. When I use the stripe, my card is usually out of my wallet for no more than a few seconds. With the chip, the card has to stay in the machine for about 30 seconds.
Contactless fixes that! I love NFC payment.
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Yeah, that's what I've heard. Apparently destroying the magstripe is actually viable there.
Here in the US, though.......
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OK, since you like your grocery store, let me put it to you this way:
If the system supports chip & pin and you use the magstripe instead, Visa, MasterCard, Discover, or American Express (which are the big 4 in the US) will not cover any fraud that happens and instead hold the store responsible for it (unless the payment processor also doesn't support it, in which case both are held responsible for it)..
If you use chip and pin, then fraud liability works just like it used to.
This Fraud liability shift happened back in October 2015... beginning of the month for some of them, end of the month for the others.
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Even today, you'll discover that most of what look to be chip enabled terminals in the US... Aren't. If you insert your card into the visible, labeled slot, it doesn't feel right and doesn't work because the reader hardware physically is not present. Everywhere that has functional hardware has forced me to use it - trying to use the mag stripe throws an error.
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This Fraud liability shift happened back in October 2015.
80% of the stores I have gone to in the past month with my chip-and-pin cards stop me when I try to put in the chip : "Oh, you need to swipe, we're not set up for that yet."
The other 20% don't have chip readers at all, or had signs telling you not to bother trying.
My first week in the UK, I tried to buy something with my American credit card, and they gave me the weirdest looks when I asked "Can I swipe this here?" Apparently, their swipe reader still worked, but hell if they knew that ahead of time. They had to call over a manager, they were shocked I didn't have a chip. I got a bank account opened shortly thereafter.
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Here in the first world
, I haven't come across a place that couldn't accept chip or PayWave in quite some time.In the "real first world", the liability for fraud is where it's supposed to be - with the party that has the most control of fixing the problem. Since we Americans have almost no liability for credit card fraud, we give very few shits about card security. That's a good thing, since fraud is rarely to customer's fault in today's world.
The banks and retailers bear almost all of the risk, and they are the ones that can issue better technology cards and upgrade terminals. The fact that we are behind on customer-facing technology is irrelevant since most of the fraud detection in the US is done by behavior analysis, not physical security.
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"Blank cheque" usually implies that it is signed before the details being filled out. Also, did you fax your order into the shop? Funny you say "do" and not "did".
Handing an unsigned check to the cashier is the closest analogy to swiping during the transaction since an early swipe doesn't give anyone the opportunity to actually charge you until you either (for small transactions) confirm the amount, or (for larger transactions) sign or enter a pin.
BTW, resorting to an ad-homonym argument is a good sign that you are wrong.
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BTW, resorting to an ad-homonym argument is a good sign that you are wrong.
I'm pretty sure you meant ad hominem. But the thing is, I'm
, not because you made a a typo (anyone can do that) but because "ad-homonym attack" immediately sprouted a mental image of some idiot shouting homonyms to intimidate his opponent:"Alright, buddy, you asked for it: he, hee, him, hymn, there, their, they're, hear, here, beer, bier, ball, bawl, tale, tail,..."
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I moved from Boston in mid-2000. In about 2010 I was cleaning the pantry and found a Lipton Cup'o'soup with a Shaw's price sticker on it.
Cool.
Story.
Bro.
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Contactless fixes that! I love NFC payment.
I like how in this thread NFC has meant "no fucking clue" and also "near-field communications".
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I had a guy tell me I shouldn't use contactless payment.
I told him I had NFC why.
