:fa_bullhorn: The sound of AN ANNOUNCEMENT BEING MADE (or: Request for Comments: Comments)



  • Continuing the discussion from WtfWebApp repo activity/cleanup:

    @apapadimoulis said:

    @AlexMedia said:
    We're well into "next week". Where's that announcement? :trolleybus:

    LATER THIS WEEK, AN ANNOUNCEMENT SHALL BE MADE.

    HERE IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT BEING MADE

    We're getting rid of the Discocomments system for the front page and moving back to something more similar to what we had pre-Discourse. Here's the requirements document. I've given everyone commenting privileges, but you can reply here if you prefer.

    Does this proposal look good? Is there something you think should be changed?


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    Comment: don't onebox google docs, it makes the forum run like shit.

    Reading the actual proposal now :)

    Addendum: Nonfunctional requirements? I assume we want some basic security features, like no XSSing the front page via the comments system. Is performance a concern?



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Markdown

    Damn. Is it too late to change this?



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    I assume we want some basic security features, like no XSSing the front page via the comments system.

    I assume we can crowdsource those tests.



  • What would you prefer instead?



  • Woohoo, an announcement!

    Question: what's the reason for deciding to no longer integrate with the forum? I like that feature as we have it right now, because:

    • The layout is consistent with the rest of the user-generated content on the site
    • Notifications work
    • There's Infiniscroll
    • Liking comments!

    The only thing which I hate about the current system is the 'top comments' page... just deeplink to the forums please.

    * I know some people here hate it, but when going through a comments thread I like not having to click 'Next'


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand





  • BBCode and/or a subset of HTML. Not sure if I hate Markdown because it's Markdown, or if I hate Markdown because of Discourse. Either way, I hate Markdown.



  • :disco::horse:



  • Bad news: no more “captcha: asdosungèg” comments.

    :sadface: :crying_cat_face:

    @NedFodder said:

    BBCode and/or a subset of HTML. Not sure if I hate Markdown because it's Markdown, or if I hate Markdown because of Discourse. Either way, I hate Markdown.

    Ignore, MD is just fine... and it's consistent with the forum... I hated when I wrote a comment on the previous site and it was all different from the forum.



  • Comments will be written in Markdown using an implementation functionally identical to NodeBB’s implementation

    Markdown is shit. Stop propagating it. Stop. Stop it now. Stop.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    Comment: don't onebox google docs, it makes the forum run like shit.

    Everything makes the forum run like shit.



  • So basically, you're reversing discourse for article comments?



  • @Eldelshell said:

    it's consistent with the forum

    I agree, whatever it is needs to be the same on the comments and the forum. I'd prefer if neither was Markdown.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    What would you prefer instead?

    1. Something that can reasonably be (or later converted to be) WYSIWYG. (WITHOUT a completely unnecessary space-wasteful separate "preview" window, since I know some moron is about to say "Discourse is WYSIWYG I'm a moron!")

    2. Something that can, for example, start numbering a list from 5. Or underline text. Markdown isn't just shitty to use, it's WEAKSAUCE. It has NO features. No underlines. No tables. No "spoiler" tag or equivalent. No nothing.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    :disco::horse:

    Dang, our first mod fight!

    A maximum number of comments will be displayed per page.

    What, no infinniscroll? Sooo 2015. seriously though, it's a good change.

    Markdown... can work if it's a small subset. Bold, italics, links, and that would be about it.



  • Requirement:
    Anything DF or Go related is automatically deleted.

    @ben_lubar said:

    Here's the requirements document.

    Fuck this. Discourse makes it look like it's actually part of the post, but in fact it's a Nonebox which looks different to the other Noneboxes. When do we move away from this shitfest?



  • @Eldelshell said:

    Ignore, MD is just fine... and it's consistent with the forum...

    I don't want the forum to be markdown either. Markdown is a stupid buggy shitty idea.

    It can be done well, the implementation in Atlassian's Confluence wiki software for example is pretty good, but you know the open source ones won't be, because open source people are all dumbshits who use GitHub and hate their users and actually think Markdown isn't a stupid terrible idea.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Dang, our first mod fight!

    Shit. What are the odds that two of them would try and actually do some work at the same time?!



  • @AlexMedia said:

    what's the reason for deciding to no longer integrate with the forum? I like that feature as we have it right now, because:

    Discorubbish is probably #1 reason, but that aside, I think the quality of discussion on the old articles was better. Maybe it was b/c you didn't have to register (some great anon ones), maybe b/c you could feature comments, I don't know.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    and it's consistent with the forum...

    We should avoid consistent with this forum*. This forum isn't even consistent with itself.



    * Discourse, for any visitors from the future. Including The Belch who will probably necro this in a few years.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    It can be done well, the implementation in Atlassian's Confluence wiki software for example is pretty good

    Good thing NodeBB and Atlassian Confluence Wiki use the same syntax, then.



  • I disagree with you on that: in my experience the quality of discussion underneath an article nowadays is better than it was. The quantity might be lower than it was pre-Discourse, but that does not have to be a bad thing. Nobody gives a damn about cheesy oneliners from Anon29583949.

    Discourse, and Paula going on a rampage every once in a while, are good reasons though.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    It has NO features.

    Honestly, I think it's actually a good idea for the comment section to be as barebones in terms of formatting as possible. Bold/italic/underline, some way of doing links, maybe quotes, and that's probably as much as we need.

    @AlexMedia said:

    Nobody gives a damn about cheesy oneliners from Anon29583949.

    Fuck you, I want cheesy oneliners back.



  • @AlexMedia said:

    Paula going on a rampage every once in a whilesingle time an article is posted or viewed

    FTFY



  • What causes that shitstorm anyway? DiscWhores, or Paula being brillant?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    WYSIWYG

    I do wonder why WYSIWYG isn't more common in stuff like this. Community Server from years ago managed it, we use Sharepoint TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING SEVEN at work and that has it.
    The problem was solved (at least) nine years ago, but apparently it's no longer solved now.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    I don't want the forum to be markdown either. Markdown is a stupid buggy shitty idea.

    I think @blakeyrat's on to something here. Not using markdown would be a great idea.


    Filed under: https://what.thedailywtf.com/t/cable-porn-sfw/54218/36?u=frostcat


  • @loopback0 said:

    Community Server from years ago managed it

    It also managed to completely break on new browsers without any of the code being changed. And on old browsers if someone pasted from Microsoft Word or Microsoft Outlook.



  • OK, fair point with cS.

    A nine year old version of Sharepoint still solves the problem. It's still a problem solved countless times before Jeff thought of creating Dicksauce. You don't need to balance the quirks of 3 different markdown syntaxes, or change markdown engine 20354358973458973498573498573947216351284 times if you make it transparent to the user.



  • @apapadimoulis said:

    feature comments

    Missing from requirements?

    @ben_lubar said:

    What would you prefer instead?

    Meh, markdown is fine. As long as it isn't disco markdown



  • That onebox is fucking atrocious.



  • Community Server introduced WYSIWYG when IE was basically the only browser to support it. And as we stuck on an ancient version it's not surprising that it broke in spectacular ways.

    The same applies to SharePoint: SP2007's WYSIWYG only works in IE6+, in SP2010 it also works in Chrome, Firefox and Safari.

    In 2016 it should be possible to introduce WYSIWYG in a non-sucky way.



  • @swayde said:

    Missing from requirements?

    It's on the top of the second page.



  • @AlexMedia said:

    The same applies to SharePoint: SP2007's WYSIWYG only works in IE6+

    I used it recently, and I'm fairly sure I wasn't using IE.



  • @loopback0 said:

    I used it recently, and I'm fairly sure I wasn't using IE.

    If that's the case, your farm admin has installed Telerik's WYSIWYG replacement which does work across browsers. :)



  • Fuck knows. There's a chance I was using my desktop and therefore IE so I'm not going to say that our implementation definitely works with Chrome.



  • I wouldn't be surprised if it's the Telerik stuff. The WYSIWYG editor that SharePoint 2007 provides out of the box is pretty crappy, Telerik's is much better.



  • @loopback0 said:

    Requirement:Anything DF or Go related is automatically deleted.

    :+1:



  • Hellbanning @ben_lubar would have the same effect, you know.

    edit: with the side effect of not having to hear about lojban anymore, either.



  • Bad news: no more “captcha: asdosungèg” comments.

    Haven't those largely stopped anyway? And no - it won't stop them completely; either those that get them will come up with

    captcha: 1234

    comments (almost every one I've had recently have been a picture of a house number) or fake them entirely - I don't think the meme has entirely disappeared.

    We will migrate the Articles category from Discourse.
    Because the current system barely works. Because Discourse barely works. Since both Discourse and the new system use Markdown, any problem will be on Discourse’s side.

    Any thoughts on integration with NodeBB if/when we get there?


    Yeah - about the infighting amongst the staff...

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    Dang, our first mod fight!

    No. TL4's have that ability too. This isn't a new power they have just been granted..

    @loopback0 said:

    Shit. What are the odds that two of them would try and actually do some work at the same time?!

    BZ and I have experienced a similar thing in the past at least once. What? You though race conditions were non-existent here?


    @apapadimoulis said:

    Discorubbish

    :eek:


    @AlexMedia said:

    I disagree with you on that: in my experience the quality of discussion underneath an article nowadays is better than it was.

    I'm siding with this - before they got integrated with Discourse, I never bothered reading the comments under articles - even when I was promoted to mod on the forums. Lack of 'powers' there wasn't the reason - the fact that my preferred (read-only) interaction method then was by email, forums did it; didn't find a way of doing articles.

    At the moment, both article and 'forum' comments are the same interface - this appears to be separating them again.


    And any comments I make in this thread should not suffer from this.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I'm fine with Markdown, as long as the parser is sane and predictable. I don't have anything against WYSIWYG either IFF the editor works well on mobile. I vote against BBCode, though, since I personally don't like it.



  • On a more serious note:

    At least for registered users, I'd like to see a fairly powerful subset of HTML/CSS be allowed. Ideally, the cooked HTML from Discourse ought to work with little or no modification; that would make the migration script very simple.



  • @PJH said:

    BZ and I have experienced a similar thing in the past at least once. What? You though race conditions were non-existent here?

    Facts :barrier: jokes.



  • I've been using NodeBB's (and DokuWiki's) implementation of Markdown for a while now, on a side project. While I still don't really like Markdown, their implementation Just Works™ and I've never had strange side-effects from trying to do normal things.

    DokuWiki actually uses - to denote ordered list items and treats numerals followed by a period as standard text.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Something that can, for example, start numbering a list from 5.

    5. Blakey
    4. This has
    3. Always
    2. Worked
    1. Fine



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Good thing NodeBB and Atlassian Confluence Wiki use the same syntax, then.

    Does it have Atlassian's WYSIWYG implementation of it?

    If not I give no shits.


  • SockDev

    His point being that you have to go out of your way to work around :minidisc::racehorse:...



  • @loopback0 said:

    I do wonder why WYSIWYG isn't more common in stuff like this. Community Server from years ago managed it, we use Sharepoint TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING SEVEN at work and that has it.

    Because the internet is owned by the kind of idiot open source jerks who think Git is a quality tool.

    IT has been going BACKWARDS for pretty much a decade at this point. Nobody's standing on the shoulders of giants. Instead they're all kicking the giants in the shins to lower them to their level.

    Hell, the simple criteria for our new forum "feature parity with Community Server" is almost entirely impossible to satisfy in all modern forums! Community Server was 1. considered a shitty forum, and 2. from 2008!!!

    This is the only industry that has this problem. Do you think if I went to a car dealership and said, "give me a 2016 model year car with all the features of this 2008 model year car" that he'd have problems finding EVEN ONE on the lot? No. Almost every car on the lot would have it. Even if the 2008 car was a super-luxury model at the time.

    @ben_lubar said:

    It also managed to completely break on new browsers without any of the code being changed. And on old browsers if someone pasted from Microsoft Word or Microsoft Outlook.

    OH WELL THEN WE SHOULD TOTALLY GIVE UP ON THE IDEA FOREVER.

    Good thinking, Ben L.

    Also I heard a guy got into a car accident once, so we should give up on the automobile and go back to horses.


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