🔥 The CLI/Git... it burns! It burns us... It freezes...
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But everyone already knows this, and still does it.
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Oh, I'm going to have to look a long ways to answer this. Hang on. Could take a while. Oh! OK, found it:
So you just admitted I've never gotten useful advice on how to make Git less painful from this forum.
Good job proving my point. Go away now.
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Yes, and he knows they will and still does it. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Actually, we've had this discussion before, about how blakey is a chick in that he gets offended when you innocently try to help him by giving him a way to solve his problem.
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So you just admitted I've never gotten useful advice on how to make Git less painful from this forum.
Exactly! It's like there's a barrier somewhere between your eyes and your brain or something.
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Yes, and he knows they will and still does it. It's a symbiotic relationship.
So because other people here can't resist the urge to
out, he isn't allowed to complain that awful things are awful?Look, everyone here is always complaining. It's what this place is for! And we all are totally fine with that and not restricting it, unless the complainer is Fox.
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Look, everyone here is always complaining. It's what this place is for! And we all are totally fine with that and not restricting it, unless the complainer is Fox.
I can't talk to you when you're this emotional.
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Are you complaining about the lack of complaining?
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So because other people here can't resist the urge to
out, he isn't allowed to complain that awful things are awful?STFU. His posts aren't getting deleted or anything. I'm just pointing out what an ass he is.
Look, everyone here is always complaining. It's what this place is for! And we all are totally fine with that and not restricting it,
Damn straight.
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@boomzilla said:
I'm just pointing out what an ass he is.
Because I won't use a CLI?
ITHM
@boomzilla said:Everything would be so much easier if you just stared at wall-o-texts and did the GUI's job by hand
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The point I'm making is simply that if Git were good software, it wouldn't matter which UI I used to interact with it.
@blakeyrat said:If it had a UI that crappy, then it wouldn't be the "best software I can imagine". I don't get your point.The UI is the software. If a piece of software has a crappy UI, it's a crappy piece of software.
Which is it!?
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@blakeyrat said:
@boomzilla said:
I'm just pointing out what an ass he is.
Because I won't use a CLI?
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@boomzilla said:Everything would be so much easier if you just stared at wall-o-texts and did the GUI's job by hand
Yeah, exactly. I'll bet it would be easier if he dropped to the CLI sometimes. Like...he runs into these things where he could use the tool in a more efficient fashion because his favored interface doesn't support it.
Some people are not too proud to admit that sometimes they need to use something crappy to get the job done. I even have a Windows machine for doing Windows type stuff! But blakey refuses to use the dreaded CLI when people suggest some things that could possibly help him in his particular situations. Nah...better to yell at those people and struggle along.
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Because making a piece of software easy to use turns it into a "toy"? Right. I suppose Sony Vegas is a "toy". And Photoshop is a "toy". Makes perfect sense here in Backwards Upside-Down Land.
Funny. I just started Photoshop and couldn't find a big "make picture pretty" button anywhere. Instead, there were all these confusing sliders and widgets and toolbars.
THIS CRAPFEST IS OBVIOUSLY DESIGNED FOR A CABAL OF GRAPHIC DESIGN NERDS, NOT PEOPLE!
WE GOT OURS, FUCK YOU!
Like I've said in the past, your argument is equivalent to this:
We should tear-down all the wheelchair ramps in buildings. If those stupid fuckers won't just get up out of their wheelchairs, well, they don't deserve to register to vote. Fuck them. If those idiots won't just get up out of their wheelchairs, well then they don't deserve to get a job programming in this building. Fuck those assholes!
Do you genuinely believe that? You're such a dick you probably do.
People should have the right to live. To go places. To enter a supermarket. Get the food they need. Get some entertainment.
There's no right to work. The point of work is to produce some value. If you require greater cost to allow you to work than the value you produce, then no, you should just get social help instead.
Of course, as automation takes off, it will be interesting to see societies try to deal with more and more people not being able to produce any value at all. We'll be seeing tons of needless makework jobs cropping up everywhere. Well, even more than there are now.
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If you don't buy the handicap argument, which means you're a huge asshole but whatever, how about the "take pride in your work and make a quality product" argument?
Because handicaps aside, Git is still a shitty product made by incompetent developers.
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> If the software is intended for developers, it's ok if it's a pain in the ass to use
is utter bullshit, and should be called-out as such.
This.
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I'll bet it would be easier if he
dropped to the CLI sometimes.stared at a wall-o-text and did all of the GUI's functions by hand
Yeah, that's SO MUCH EASIER. And I bet it would sometimes be easier to pull apart the computer and carefully apply some electric currents to strategically-selected components rather than having the computer do that itself.
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If you don't buy the handicap argument, which means you're a huge asshole but whatever, how about the "take pride in your work and make a quality product" argument?
We can agree there.
Because handicaps aside, Git is still a shitty product made by incompetent developers.
Ummmmmmm.... debatable. But not entirely without merit.
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Of course, as automation takes off, it will be interesting to see societies try to deal with more and more people not being able to produce any value at all. We'll be seeing tons of needless makework jobs cropping up everywhere. Well, even more than there are now.
It seems likely that all or nearly all jobs that exist today will be replaced by robots within the next twenty years or so. I'm hopeful that this will lead to no jobs at all.
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Yeah, that's SO MUCH EASIER.
Indeed. I'm fairly sure it is for obscure git functions or combinations of arguments. Especially if the GUI tool you're using doesn't do it at all.
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"People can't use it at all" should be primo bug number super-priority 1+++.
Yeah, it should be. If that were true. The fact is that hundreds of thousands of people use it just fine every single day. If one user rants and raves about your software and refuses to even attempt to learn how to use it, and hundreds of thousands use it just fine, you can chalk up that one user to being fucking psychotic and move on. You can't please everyone.
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The fact is that hundreds of thousands of people use it just fine every single day
Proven how? Back this up with data. Especially the "just fine" part.
Of course, that's still meaningless to the larger point. Hundreds of thousands of people eat McDonalds just fine every single day, that doesn't make McDonalds a great restaurant or even somewhere you want to spend time.
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It seems likely that all or nearly all jobs that exist today will be replaced by robots within the next twenty years or so. I'm hopeful that this will lead to no jobs at all.
Yeah, the society just needs to survive until then.
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Proven how? Back this up with data.
of software developers who use Git - one @blakeyrat
There's your data.
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# of software developers who use Git - one @blakeyrat
There's your data.
The real answer is: you have no fucking clue, because the incompetent developers who are in charge of Git have never done a usability study, have no telemetry, have no analytics or KPIs and probably haven't even done a quick-and-dirty survey.
They have no fucking clue how many people are using the product, much less how many are using it every day, much less how many people are using it every day "just fine".
A competent software development team probably would. But hey, there you go: yet another reason Git's developers are incompetent.
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The real answer is: you have no fucking clue, because the incompetent developers who are in charge of Git have never done a usability study, have no telemetry, have no analytics or KPIs and probably haven't even done a quick-and-dirty survey.
They have no fucking clue how many people are using the product, much less how many are using it every day, much less how many people are using it every day "just fine".
A competent software development team probably would. But hey, there you go: yet another reason Git's developers are incompetent.
As this forum's resident expert on this particular subject, allow me to assure you that @Polygeekery's preferred form of data is "whatever the fuck he comes up with", and any other data is considered inherently flawed.
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Maybe; but in Git's case the problem is that the engine has no
driveshaftremote control interface (read: API), and so you can't actually use it to drive a car remotely. It just sits there and hums to itself.The car works fine on its own.
Because making a piece of software easy to use turns it into a "toy"? Right. I suppose Sony Vegas is a "toy". And Photoshop is a "toy". Makes perfect sense here in Backwards Upside-Down Land
"
PeopleBlakey can't use it at all" should be primo bug number super-priority 1+++.FTFY
Look, advice that requires using the CLI is useless to me because I won't use it.
Adapt or die.
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As this forum's resident expert on this particular subject, allow me to assure you that @Polygeekery's preferred form of data is "whatever the fuck he comes up with", and any other data is considered inherently flawed.
Shouldn't you be posting pointless infographics from flawed sources (for this one, you might want to check www.blakeyrat.com) or posting links to articles that disprove your point?
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Apparently, all things considered, a lot of people nevertheless prefer it above any source control system developed by 'competent' developers using extensive usability studies and telemetry collection.
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Yes, and they're the same sort of people who like compiling gentoo frequently. What's your point?
There are also people who like collecting 100yo coins.
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Yes, and they're the same sort of people who like compiling gentoo frequently.
What...all of them?
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My point is, people do weird insane things because they feel like it, not because it's better.
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Apparently, all things considered, a lot of people nevertheless prefer it above any source control system developed by 'competent' developers using extensive usability studies and telemetry collection.
And there are a lot of people who prefer McDonalds over quality restaurants.
So. Fucking. What?
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Yeah, but "better" doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means.
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And there are a lot of people who prefer McDonalds over quality restaurants.
And in some situations, they're absolutely correct.
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My point is, people do weird insane things because they feel like it, not because it's better.
I do weird insane things because it amuses me.
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Here's an inforgraphic all about you.
http://blurbrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/buckfast-wine-infographic-2.jpg
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And there are a lot of people who prefer McDonalds over quality restaurants.
So. Fucking. What?
So it would also be foolish to say that the McDonalds management is incompetent.
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Generally speaking, people aren't forced to eat at McDonalds as a condition of employment.
Even people who work at McDonalds.
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In any case, the entire thought behind it:
If the software is intended for developers, it's ok if it's a pain in the ass to use
is utter bullshit, and should be called-out as such.
Have you ever heard of Kolmogorov complexity?
Git has a bad UI, sure. But slapping a better UI on it isn't going to magically make the domain easier. The domain -- traversing a lattice of patches -- is always going to be hard. Always. Because no matter what you call each command, each one of them is necessary to move forward, backwards, sideways, etc.
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Same. But it doesn't make all those things good things.
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Tonic Wine DansGame
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Git has a bad UI, sure. But slapping a better UI on it isn't going to magically make the domain easier.
There are other products in the exact same field that are drastically easier.
Again: I'm not asking for perfection, but Git could at least fucking TRY.
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Generally speaking, people aren't forced to eat at McDonalds as a condition of employment.
I recommend abandoning the life of a job hopping hipster so you can gain enough seniority somewhere to be able to make those calls.
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Here's an inforgraphic all about you.
I don't know
that is, but I feel it safe to assume that I would not drink it.
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So what you do is you find some people who use it, analyze their workflows, and make things that work for them. Not every product has to work for everyone. Luckily git has such a nice AP-
...oh.
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I recommend abandoning the life of a job hopping hipster so you can gain enough seniority somewhere to be able to make those calls.
The only reason I'm a "job hopping hipster", you piece of human garbage, is because I was laid off 3 years ago. Fuck you.
(Oh and the company I was laid off from? It had both TFS and Git servers, and the projects were stand-alone with a small team, so I was able to make that call. Fuck you twice for reminding me of that.)
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Not every product has to work for everyone.
@blakeyrat would like to have some strong words with you. He will bring up Stephen Hawking and Ray Charles. Just let him finish.
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I don't think so, honestly. I think he's trying to make the same point I am. If git had a sane API, there would be working third party solutions, which is good enough for me and, from what I've read, him.
