Mafia III: Yakuza Thread


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    Jeff'd from PM after the close of game



  • Hello @abarker. Looks like we will be working together for this game. :) Do you have a preference on how you want to play things here?


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    Based on past experience, I think we should limit our cooperation in the public areas. Since there are only the two of us, that should be easy to do.

    The second thing that comes to mind is that we want to stay in the middle of the pack in terms of public involvement. If we are too involved, that will bring attention to us quickly. If we are not involved enough, then attention will be drawn to us later on. It is a tricky balance we have set before us.


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    FYI, I have no special skills. I am publicly part of the Shark clan, but my loyalty lies here, with the Yakuza. Looks like I (or we?) have a job from Daimyo Crane.



  • That sounds reasonable. It looks like we have a job from Daimyo Crane. I'm just a junior mber of the Monkey clan, no skills here either...


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    After re-reading, it appears that our job was flavor text - taking out the Wolf boy. I think that our job was to take out the groom.

    Is that correct, @Yamikuronue?


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    I can confirm "the Wolf boy" meant the groom.


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    In that case ...

    @Nocha, I suspect that we are not the only mafia around. This is something we should keep this to ourselves and wait for the group to discover it on their own.



  • Given the number of others in play at the moment, that seems a reasonable assumption. The big concern I have is if there are any cultists in play. That could rapidly make life 'Fun' in the dwarf fortress sense of the word...


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    I'm tempted to bring up the last two games, pointing out how both times the group lynched blindly on the first day and how both times the "evil" won. A lynch would most likely serve us well, but I don't know how to get the ball rolling while staying under the radar.


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    Seems like most players are trying to stay quiet. This is going to be a long day.



  • It is looking as if it might last all week. I'm probably going to poke a little more tonight if I get a chance. See if anything shakes out of anybody. Fbmac is a possibility for tatgetting with the rapid change of opinion though...


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    @Nocha said:

    Fbmac is a possibility for tatgetting with the rapid change of opinion though...

    It does seem like a possibility.



  • Just about the only head above the parapet in terms of accusability at the moment. Everybody is keeping their heads down...


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    Egging fbmac on. Hopefully he'll flip again, making him an easier target. I'm not going to push him any harder because I don't want to make myself a target. If he takes the bait I just laid for him, I see two options:

    1. Let him run with it a bit. If no momentum is building behind his target, then you could point at him as a potential target due to his flip-flopping.
    2. Keep him around for a while. If he's that easy to manipulate, he could be a useful tool.


  • I'm curious to see what he will do now that Weng has placed a nomination. My money is on him holding off for a little and then voting once there are a couple of votes cast...



  • Wasn't expecting Maciej to jump into accuse him... If fbmac gets lynched tonight, we have a potential second target there...


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    Have to be careful there. Going after Macie is dangerous for me. There are historical tensions involved.



  • True. But if he is gong to go in guns blazing, he makes pointing the finger a little simpler when he is wrong...


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    @Maciejasjmj said:

    I'm less suspect of those who keep silent when they have nothing to add, than those who change their opinion like a flag in the wind, as if afraid of being confronted and forced to defend their points.

    @vote for @fbmac

    Dance puppets … Dance!



  • @Weng said:

    Your reasoning is slightly more sound than my randomness, so in the interests of consolidating things

    @vote for @fbmac

    This makes my reasoning for voting for fbmac nice and simple. I will wait a while and then follow the lead of my clan :P


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    @Nocha said:

    This makes my reasoning for voting for fbmac nice and simple. I will wait a while and then follow the lead of my clan :stuck_out_tongue:

    Sounds good. Unless it becomes otherwise necessary, I will refrain from voting today since I made statements against voting on Day 1.



  • I will probably hold off a little, see if anybody else feels like voting first. Aim to be middle of the pack, not too eager and obvious.


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    @fbmac said:

    @vote for @no-lynch

    Holy flip-flopping!

    This is the third time he's changed his position now. It seems as good a time as any to go after him.



  • Yup, just gone for it now...


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    Looks good. I'm holding off for now to see how the group takes this. Also, hopefully we can put some distance between our votes of mine becomes necessary.


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    I was thinking about posting this in reply to @fbmac's defense, but I should probably hold off to help keep my post count down. Feel free to use any part of it you want:


    @fbmac said:

    I'm still thinking, and learning more about the situation. Only a fool wouldn't change his mind in face of new information, and advice from more experienced warriors.

    That's the core of your defense? That's the reason you are changing your mind at the drop of a hat? That is a poor excuse for being so outspoken and simultaneously weak willed. Especially since there hasn't been any "new information", other than observed behavior. And most of that has come from you.

    @fbmac said:

    Currently, I'm considering 2 of my accusers for a vote. I hope my resentment for their vote isn't clouding my judgement.

    Most likely your resentment is clouding your judgement, or you're a guilty individual trying to cast suspicion on others. Let's start with your claims against @weng:

    @fbmac said:

    @weng: Changed his mind, bandwagoned, double voted, chose someone named "chaos" at random (coincidence?), and accuse me for doing things he did himself.

    • He changed his mind about who to vote once. And he wasn't even being challenged about his vote for @ChaosTheEternal when he did it. That isn't nearly the same as your three flip-flops under very little pressure. Plus, @weng did have a point about switching to you when @Maciejasjmj actually had reason to vote for you, and @weng just randomly picked @ChaosTheEternal.
    • As for you "bandwagon" claim, that's a strong claim considering he was the second to vote for you, and it was about an hour and a half after the first vote against you.
    • Your complaint that he randomly chose @ChaosTheEternal is worthless. Random selection is … random.
    • As for accusing you of doing things he's done himself, please be more specific. The only prospect I can identify for this is the mind changing accusation you've already thrown out that I have shot down. Care to try another?

    Ok, now for @reverendryan:

    @fbmac said:

    @reverendryan: Tried to get anyone with special skills to reveal it on the first day, and he looks like an experienced warrior that should know better.

    Hmmm, you do seem to have a point here. However, it was just one post and he didn't pursue it any further. Perhaps he just failed to make himself clear? Or maybe he said what he meant, realized his mistake and decide not to pursue that avenue any further? It's hard to determine much from a single post.

    Now, I'm not saying that this proves that @weng or @reverendryan are innocent, but your accusations just aren't that strong. Those who have voted against you seem to have a stronger case against you based on a solid pattern of behavior, not just a single post or a few disjointed actions that amount to nothing meaningful.


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    @fbmac said:

    And @weng may be covering for him, he is putting a lot of effort to feed the bandwagon against me.

    :laughing:

    @weng has 10 posts total!



  • Note to self Avoid doing things in fbmac's guide to finding mafia

    Seriously, why would he post that in a live game?



  • And how can we turn it against him?


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    @Nocha said:

    Seriously, why would he post that in a live game?

    Because he's a complete idiot.

    @Nocha said:

    And how can we turn it against him?

    I'm looking into that …


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    @Nocha said:

    And how can we turn it against him?

    Here's what I've got:

    • He has exhibited WishyWashy voting. (listed in Rules for Finding Mafia)
    • When pointing fingers at various people, and sometimes even when voting, his reasons haven't generally been well founded. (listed in Day 1 mafia errors)
    • He's avoided some questions and only partially answered others. Though he has, admittedly, answered others completely. (listed in Day 1 mafia errors)

    http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia

    Would you like to do the honors? :imp:


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    @Nocha said:

    Note to self Avoid doing things in fbmac's guide to finding mafia

    Thinking about it, this could be a WIFOM situation. It's been posted, and pointed out as useless since it's been posted, so it's useless. But because of that, the town will shy away from using it to evaluate activity for mafia, so it's ok to do those things. But the town may expect that and use the guide anyway, so we're back to square one …



  • I still feel like it should be called out. If there is a second mafia faction in play, we may have hit upon one of them with fbmac. In that case, posting it as a form of WIFOM may be an attempt at deflecting attention. The biggest question we have is "how intentional was his hitting all the markers so perfectly?" My gut is saying that he hit them accidentally and then went looking for a way to defend himself, followed by the WIFOM when he found the guide. But that still leaves the question of why did he hit them...?


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    I think he hit them unintentionally. He probably went looking for the guide to help him find mafia. Remember, he pointed out the guide when I asked him where he got the idea that 3rd and 4th votes on a wagon are scummy. I don't think he's trying to defend himself with this at all.


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    In other words, I think it's safe to call him out. I was saying that I'm not sure if we need to avoid those "flags" that are listed in the guide, though.



  • I suspect you are right. I will get something typed up and will post it in here if you like for a quick once over...

    504 OK



  • fbmac, that was a very foolish document for you to post for multiple reasons.

    Firstly, by posting it and pointing it out, you have made it useless for looking at any actions committed after it has been posted due to what it refers to as a 'WIFOM' situation. Using it as a guide to actions prior to it's posting can still be done with caution - it should not be trated as gospel.

    That said, it leads on to the second reason it was foolish for you to post.
    You tick several boxes in it's guide for finding mafia! In fact, just by posting it when you have, you have ticked another box. I honestly doubt that anybody else has met the criteria it provides as well as you have, and this is just reaffirming my belief that you are involved with traitors in our midst. For the avoidance of doubt, the boxes I believe you have ticked are as follows

    1. WishyWashy voting
    2. When pointing fingers you have not had well founded reasons
    3. Avoiding some questions and selectively answering others
    4. Attempting to force a WIFOM situation by posting this document


  • Hmm fbmac is now claiming a cop role. Not sure if I should push against that or not :confused:

    He has just made himself a target, but it seems an act of desperation. I'm thinking I will leave it for tonight, see what the morning brings...


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    @Nocha said:

    Hmm fbmac is now claiming a cop role. Not sure if I should push against that or not :confused:

    Looks like @Maciejasjmj is doing that.


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    Ok, I think the day is pretty much dead with little chance at a lynch. Time to start discussing actions for tonight.

    Given the size of the group, we were sent in here with minimal manpower, so we'll need to be careful and deliberate. I think that our two options for tonight are @fbmac and @maciejasjmj. @fbmac for claiming cop and @Maciejasjmj because he is a natural group leader, as shown by the way he has single handedly detailed the wagon against @fbmac. If we choose @maciejasjmj, I could probably use a derivative of WIFOM to claim innocence should the focus come on me.



  • I would agree with those options. I will also add that I am not fully sold on fbmac being a cop. @Maciejasjmj seems like the best option right now, as I believe fbmac may be protected on the off chance he is cop. Reverendryan would be the one I would expect to be investigated tonight due to his asking about power roles. Thinking of that, he may be a bodyguard/doctor wanting to know who to protect..

    My vote for night kill goes to maciej though. Revenge for derailing the fbmac lynch. I believe we get to pick who performa the kill, would you like to do the honours?


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    @Nocha said:

    I believe we get to pick who performa the kill, would you like to do the honours?

    Sure, since I have plausible deniability.


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    With the situation around @fbmac evolving and my current and historical involvement levels, I am going to retract my vote for @fbmac. I don't think you need to do the same, but keep your eye out for any hints that your vote may be put to better use.



  • I was going to publicly reconsider my vote. I'm undecided which way I will go with it at the moment, that will probably arise as I type. Given there is no chance of him getting lynched this day, we might want to prepare some kind of reasoning in case he accuses us in the morning...


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    @Nocha said:

    Given there is no chance of him getting lynched this day, we might want to prepare some kind of reasoning in case he accuses us in the morning...

    Not a bad idea, Thinking about it, I believe that our best option is to have two separate defenses, that way it's harder for them to link us together.

    I considered proposing that we claim a masonry at some point, but then we run the risk of one of us getting lynched, effectively pointing the next day's wagon at the other. Not a good idea. Also, if there is another group out there, then we run the risk of losing that way.



  • I was having the same thought with the masonry. It isn't worth the risk it provides.



  • Welp, it looks like that is day 1 over without a lynch. Are we still in agreement on you killing @Maciejasjmj tonight? If so, we should let @Yamikuronue know...


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    @Nocha said:

    Are we still in agreement on you killing @Maciejasjmj tonight?

    I think so. It will help sow confusion among the group. And I think that keeping @fbmac alive right plays to our advantage.

    Any other thoughts?



  • I think I would agree with both of those.

    I would also suggest that assuming the nightkill succeeds, @placeholder might be a good followup target for the lynch. Maciej has voted for him today, which gives him a motive and at the very least we will hopefully be able to get fbmac to investigate him (assuming his ability is real), which is an investigation not aimed at us...


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