Today in History: Black People Conquered Great Britain Before It Was Cool





  • That's like saying Native Americans were in Africa before the Africans were.


  • SockDev

    It's not like the English were a people that came over here and drove everyone else out; today's English are a mixed descendency of Saxon (basically German) and Norman (basically French), with a soupçon of Viking (Scandinavian) and a garnish of Roman (Italian).

    But then the Daily Mail never passes up an opportunity to be subliminally racist.

    Edit: Almost forgot about the Angles, from which the name 'England' is derived. And the Angles are also basically German.



  • I... errr... what?

    (slight aside; "were in Britain before the English" - before the BRITISH, you fucking morons! Britain is not England and England is not Britain!)



  • England is a subset of Britain. That's like saying "black people were slaves in America before the current congress". It's a valid statement.



  • The ‘Africans in Britain’ quotation is the opening line of a key book on the course reading list by a Marxist historian and refers to a Roman legion of North Africans briefly stationed on Hadrian’s Wall in the 3rd Century, before the arrival of Anglo-Saxons.

    Uh. That's quite reasonable.

    I guess the controversy is whether any of these black soldiers settled in the British Isles, or were merely temporarily stationed there. But the general point the book is trying to make ("hey buddy, you'd be surprised how far people traveled even in the ancient world") stands, and that's a good demonstration of it.

    Teapot's gonna break with all that tempest in it.



  • @skotl said:

    (slight aside; "were in Britain before the English" - before the BRITISH, you fucking morons! Britain is not England and England is not Britain!)

    By the definition of the word "British" as "occupant of the British Isles", I don't see how that's wrong or even could be wrong.

    Anglo-Saxons (the current "English") migrated to the British Isles and displaced/sidelined the British people who were already there. Some of those British people may have been descendants of the Roman Legions, who were there long before (at least 400 years) the Anglo-Saxons arrived.

    I honestly and truly do not have any idea what the issue is here.

    It sounds to me that a lot of English need better history lessons, if they're objecting to the stuff this textbook's saying. Maybe stop focusing on the GCSE students and focus on the normal schools.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    England is a subset of Britain. That's like saying "black people were slaves in America before the current congress". It's a valid statement.

    I'm Scottish - don't get me started on this topic...


  • SockDev

    This post is deleted!


  • @skotl said:

    I'm Scottish - don't get me started on this topic...

    Scotland only tried to not be a subset of Britain 🎣



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I honestly and truly do not have any idea what the issue is here.

    There isn't a real issue here. Just another excuse for the Daily Mail to invent things to get upset about.



  • @skotl said:

    I'm Scottish - don't get me started on this topic...ANYTHING.

    .


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @ben_lubar said:

    That's like saying Native Americans were in Africa before the Africans were.

    I do believe you have it surrounded, VirBen.



  • @loopback0 said:

    Scotland only tried to not be a subset of Britain 🎣

    Not me 🙂



  • Did you know that once all of human kind existing in a primordial ooze that covered most, if not all, of the planet-- even before nations existed!



  • And did you also know that most of that primordial ooze is still around, and has ended up running the Daily Fail?



  • I didn't know North Africans were black 2000 years ago.

    Anyway, they've got to be careful. Exaggerated claims can backfire in either direction: the Daily Mail's credibility may suffer yet another blow on one hand, but on the other hand one could think: well, they weren't any good in conquering this island now, were they? White people must be superior after all.

    But who needs to be reasonable when you can participate in a shouting contest?



  • @Hanzo said:

    I didn't know North Africans were black 2000 years ago.

    I was going to make much the same comment, but say “African” to people, and they almost invariably think of people with with dark skin from subsaharan regions.



  • @Gaska said:

    dailymail.

    Nuff said


  • SockDev

    What do you mean "subliminally racist"? The DM starts at "borderline subtle" and works up to "subtle as a sledgehammer".


  • SockDev

    What do you mean, "credibility"?


  • SockDev

    @Hanzo said:

    the Daily Mail's credibility may suffer yet another blow

    Heh, you think the Daily Fail has credibility 😆



  • @loopback0 said:

    Scotland only tried to not be a subset of Britain

    The result might have been a lot different if the rest of us were allowed a vote in that referendum...

    And it was them trying to not be a subset of the UK, not 'Britain.'


  • SockDev



  • There is a growing number of people in the Republic that think the grand independent experiment has run its course and maybe we should re-attach ourselves to the UK. A week of Irish politics would be enough for most rational people to come to this conclusion.


  • BINNED

    EDIT: Fuck you Discourse, this was supposed to be a reply to @accalia.


  • SockDev

    @DogsB said:

    There is a growing number of people in the Republic that think the grand independent experiment has run its course and maybe we should re-attach ourselves to the UK. A week of Irish politics would be enough for most rational people to come to this conclusion.

    Why not? There's enough of you over here already 😛



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Why not?

    Not to contaminate the redhead chicks supply, duh.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    @DogsB said:
    There is a growing number of people in the Republic that think the grand independent experiment has run its course and maybe we should re-attach ourselves to the UK. A week of Irish politics would be enough for most rational people to come to this conclusion.

    Why not? There's enough of you over here already 😛
    I for one welcome Queenie back as our sovereign!



  • Babylon, Person, Medes, Greeks, and Romans had a habit of making sure a society had no traces of existing....

    No telling who rightfully owns land X, by merit of being "first".



  • @PJH said:

    And it was them trying to not be a subset of the UK, not 'Britain.'

    I know but facts undefined jokes.



  • See now I thought the Isle of Man was part of the UK, but I guess not.

    Also the Channel Isles aren't considered part of the British Isles?

    Also that diagram should probably note which of those circles are geographical, and which are political. But yes.



  • What's even with the Isle of Man? I guess I should look it up on wikipedia or something. I only ever hear about it in situations like this or Reamde. It must have some kind of historical importance...

    That said, there are probably lots of places like this around.


  • SockDev

    It has a parliament older than the UK's, and an annual bike race in the mountains. It also has no national speed limit.



  • Yeah, sounds like a pretty average, uninteresting place apart from possibly containing Avalon.


  • SockDev

    Depends what you're going there for, I guess. If you love driving, there's some great roads to drive; bikers have the TT; and if you're a history buff, there's a fair few ruins to walk around.



  • I mean sure. It seems like a nice place. New Zealand was too.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    It also has no national speed limit.

    TIL.

    I should go to the Isle of Man...



  • Ummm, don't be too hasty. Some urban areas now have speed limits which can some times extend a few miles out of town. Yes, there is no actual defined limit for the other roads - as in the UK where it is 60 for single and 70 for "proper" dual carriage way (It was was explained to me that if an object like a ball can roll from one kerb or similar, to the other, it is not a dual carriageway).

    However, you can still be stopped for speeding at the discretion of the police, who are getting increasingly pissed off about attitudes towards "no speed limit". See:

    I should point out though, at the time of posting this, the government concerned have no plans to impose any limits. A (lack of) plan that has public support. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-22450025



  • @loose said:

    Some urban areas now have speed limits which can some times extend a few miles out of town.

    Yes, but I'll emphasise the important word in @RaceProUK's post for you.

    @RaceProUK said:

    It also has no national speed limit.



  • I remember how few years back, people at Germany were extremely pissed at their government for trying to pass 200km/h speed limits for autobahns - thankfully, they weren't successful. The govt, I mean.



  • @loose said:

    Yes, there is no actual defined limit for the other roads - as in the UK where it is 60 for single and 70 for "proper" dual carriage way

    Jesus that's slow.

    Unless you're talking MPH, but of course that couldn't be the case because the UK went metric.



  • The UK isn't very large, though, so it all works out.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    because the UK went metric

    We still have the Pint and the Mile. The former is probably due to our culture - "fancy a liter?" does not have the "effect" as "fancy a pint?" (Although, given our culture, consumption by the liter would be more efficient. That said efficiency is not a cultural trait). Am I'm hazarding a guess here, that convert to kilometers would cost "a" government too much to replace all the road signs.

    We nearly kept the pound (Libra), but the cost was deferred to the "supplier by weight". A bit like the cost of having a non-round pound (Sterling) will be.



  • I know the topic title is wrong ( currently "Today in history: Black people conquered Great Britain..."etc) because it's still January and February is black history month. Daily Fail indeed.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Also the Channel Isles aren't considered part of the British Isles?

    They’re just off the coast of Brittany and would be French islands if the English hadn’t held onto them after being effectively removed from the French mainland in the Middle Ages.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Jesus that's slow.

    Unless you're talking MPH, but of course that couldn't be the case because the UK went metric.


    Speed limits in the UK are in miles per hour.

    As an aside, iTunes seems to be developing a sense of humour: as I was reading this thread, it began to play [i]Anarchy in the U.K.[/i]



  • @loose said:

    We still have the Pint and the Mile. The former is probably due to our culture - "fancy a liter?" does not have the "effect" as "fancy a pint?" (Although, given our culture, consumption by the liter would be more efficient.

    Try "Fancy 568ml?"

    @loose said:

    that convert to kilometers would cost "a" government the taxpayer too much to replace all the road signs.



  • @Gaska said:

    Daily Mail

    It's probably bullshit.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I honestly and truly do not have any idea what the issue is here.

    There are several issues, among them:

    • The article is from the Daily Mail, and most likely contains pure nonsense.
    • The title is at odds from many things you quoted, never mind facts (I'm assuming from the article... I daren't read it at work due to it being poison). Unless England was once called Africa, in which case the title is still poorly written and misleading. 'England once part of Africa... possibly when it was called Pangea' would be more accurate.

    Admittedly, the issues seem lateral.



  • @Gurth said:

    They’re just off the coast of Brittany

    British Isles is a GEOGRAPHIC area, so this is the relevant part.

    @Gurth said:

    and would be French islands if the English hadn’t held onto them after being effectively removed from the French mainland in the Middle Ages.

    This is all POLITICAL and thus irrelevant.

    @Gurth said:

    Speed limits in the UK are in miles per hour.

    But but but British people always make fun of us Americans because they "converted to metric" and we didn't!? It's almost as if the British didn't either, and they're just deluding themselves.

    @Gurth said:

    As an aside, iTunes seems to be developing a sense of humour: as I was reading this thread, it began to play Anarchy in the U.K.

    Not a good sense of humor.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.