Guy who create unused Classes VS Guy who doesn't know normalisation or basic OOP



  • A guy who create unused Classes, fields, methods, jsp files
    VS
    A guy who doesn't know normalisation or basic OOP

    Which one is worse?



  • @Ascendant said:

    A guy who create unused Classes, fields, methods, jsp files
    VS
    A guy who doesn't know normalisation or basic OOP

    Which one is worse?

    I would rather work with the guy who create unused Classes, fields, etc. If his sense of naming is rather decent, there might be still some use for them with some minor refactoring.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    What's the story behind this question? That's the interesting part…



  • One guy is a senior developer who doesn't know normalisation or basic OOP. He managed to setup a Spring+iBatis web project without ever writing this particular sequence of alphabets, "implements". Yes, the Java keyword for implementing an Interface. There is no Interface definition at all, in a Java Spring web project. Here is my previous post Help I live in a country where senior devs create CSV columns and don't use the keywords "extends" nor "implements

    The other guy creates Classes, methods, fields, jsp files but some of them are not used.
    He sometimes creates two very similar fields for one column in a table like a stats field and a step field.
    Both get the actual value from column named status. I kinda understand why this guy does this.
    He's not actually part of the development team. This company just hired him as a sort of freelancer.
    No one told him what this website is about, what it is supposed to do.
    Oh btw, I'm not an employee here either. I am from another company but this one(the one I'm physically working) hired me through my actual employer, to work on this project.
    I didn't get an introduction, general information, the ERD or the class diagram of this project either.

    Don't people say, more devs don't mean the project will be finished sooner?

    These people seems to object to that idea.


  • SockDev

    @Ascendant said:

    Don't people say, more devs don't mean the project will be finished sooner?

    Only until someone hits them over the head with a copy of The Mythical Man-Month.



  • I agree. The first guy(who basically codes a bit untidily) at least knows some OOP and normalisation. At least he wouldn't drive a whole project to catastrophe because of comma separated value columns or maintenance hell for not deploying even the most basic OOP.



  • I think you should just shoot both of them.



  • Nah, gun restrictions got too strict. Oh also, this country does not allow civilians to have guns at all. Although you can go to a certain port city where there are a lot of Russians and get a gun illegally.


  • SockDev

    If you ban all the guns, only the criminals have guns. Good plan!



  • @Ascendant said:

    I agree. The first guy(who basically codes a bit untidily) at least knows some OOP and normalisation. At least he wouldn't drive a whole project to catastrophe because of comma separated value columns or maintenance hell for not deploying even the most basic OOP.

    @DogsB said:

    I think you should just shoot both of them.

    @Ascendant said:

    Although you can go to a certain port city where there are a lot of Russians and get a gun illegally.

    That escalated very very quickly !



  • I have a feeling you're extremely frustrated with the Incompetent shit in your workplace.



  • Ah indeed. You read my mind. As I'm writing this, I've been working ovetime until 2 A.M. every day, starting from this Monday. I don't think I can go home "early" tomorrow either. This is a good strategy. Don't give your employees time to look for a new job or write a resume. Very clever.



  • I hope you run out of fucks to give very soon and turn up to work drunk as fuck everyday maybe?



  • That's something some Koreans sometime do. lol Incidentally, I've been caffeine free for a week. :dizzy_face:



  • @Ascendant said:

    As I'm writing this, I've been working ovetime until 2 A.M. every day, starting from this Monday. I don't think I can go home "early" tomorrow either

    Just Curious, why is this happening? Are you close to a Release? Are you covering up for other incompetent people just so that work gets done somehow ? Or this 2 AM shit happens all the time ?



  • Ah, the guy who doesn't know normalisation is also in charge of the project management. I was assigned to this position mid-project. He just gave me a Power Point slide show that shows what each corresponding page should do. That's a month ago.

    Now, Friday, 5 P.M. last week, he came up to me and the asked.
    "Everything is done now, right? The deadline is next Monday."

    Nothing about the deadline was mentioned previously.

    I could say that it could be partly my fault for not asking when the deadline was even if the project manager does tell you when the deadline is for some reason.

    However, if I were in charge of a project I would tell my team members what our goal is, at least.



  • Wow that is thoroughly fucked up.

    @Ascendant said:

    Ah, the guy who doesn't know normalisation is also in charge of the project management.

    This just looks like the tip of the Iceberg. I bet your day job is mostly jumping from one WTF to another. I've been there. Sucks to be you :disappointed:



  • @Ascendant said:

    Ah, the guy who doesn't know normalisation is also in charge of the project management. I was assigned to this position mid-project. He just gave me a Power Point slide show that shows what each corresponding page should do. That's a month ago.

    Now, Friday, 5 P.M. last week, he came up to me and the asked.
    "Everything is done now, right? The deadline is next Monday."

    Nothing about the deadline was mentioned previously.

    I could say that it could be partly my fault for not asking when the deadline was even if the project manager does tell you when the deadline is for some reason.

    However, if I were in charge of a project I would tell my team members what our goal is, at least.

    That sounds exactly like my previous workplace. Don't worry, you only stayed until 2 am. Previously, I only returned home 2 times a week. I had dumped all my necessities and toiletries at my previous workplace.



  • @WPT said:

    Don't worry, you only stayed until 2 am. Previously, I only returned home 2 times a week. I had dumped all my necessities and toiletries at my previous workplace.

    :open_mouth:

    I never knew stuff like this happened for real !



  • @stillwater said:

    :open_mouth:

    I never knew stuff like this happened for real !


    Yes it does. Some other companies have cots for the devs.



  • Holllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy shit.



  • Welcome to the eastern half of Asia where people can live out their lives within their workplaces.



  • Do you guys have any idea wtf is going on in Singapore in the IT scenario?



  • It really largely depends on whether is it MNCs or SMEs that you are referring to.

    MNCs, you deal with shitty management + politicking shit.
    SMEs, you deal with shitty coworkers + management.

    60% of your work in MNCs will be project management, 40% is just trying to hack shit stuff together, no development.
    60% of your work in SMEs will be trying to patch up all the 3rd party stuff that management bought because they sound cool, 30% in stupid unnecessary long meetings that just serve to inflate the boss's ego, the last 10% is development.



  • Hey, btw it looks like I am going to have to pull an allnighter tonight. Maybe I will go home by 4 A. M. if I am lucky. But I don't see any cots around here though. As part of my effort to completely stop drinking coffee, I am going in without a drop of coffee! Wish me good luck. Lol



  • I never knew but kinda thought it would be better than here. But maybe it isn't that much better either?


  • BINNED

    @Ascendant said:

    As part of my effort to completely stop drinking coffee

    I don't see why, but ok.

    @Ascendant said:

    I am going in without a drop of coffee! Wish me good luck. Lol

    You're a braver man than I will ever be. Good luck.


  • SockDev

    @Ascendant said:

    Wish me good luck

    No.

     

     

    Oh, OK then ;)



  • @Onyx said:

    I don't see why, but ok.

    Caffeine suppresses neurogenesis in the hippocampus.



  • @Ascendant said:

    Don't people say, more devs don't mean the project will be finished sooner?

    People who haven't read any of Fred Brooks' works, maybe. People who haven't heard the expression, "a group of 9 women working together still can't make a baby in one month," maybe.



  • @Ascendant said:

    Ah indeed. You read my mind. As I'm writing this, I've been working ovetime until 2 A.M. every day, starting from this Monday. I don't think I can go home "early" tomorrow either. This is a good strategy. Don't give your employees time to look for a new job or write a resume. Very clever.

    So just don't do it.

    In addition to idiots slowing a project down, attempting to write code with a tired brain will slow the project down. You'll be writing more mistakes than usable lines of code.

    Is there no literature in your country's language on how to properly do software development? I mean I'm not going to claim the US is the pinnacle of software efficiency, but at least there are psychological studies and books like The Mythical Man-Month, Don't Make Me Think, etc. you can point out when projects go to shit.

    Anyway, act like an American. What's the worse that'll happen if you simply leave at closing time? Just leave at closing time. There's no way I'd work those hours to cover for someone else (management's, presumably) fuck-up. Even if I was paid overtime-- because I'd tell the company they're wasting their money trying to get more than 9-10 hours of good code out of me a day. Hell I'm lucky if I can manage 5 before I get to fatigued.



  • @stillwater said:

    I never knew stuff like this happened for real !

    Some people just eat shit. Some people love it. They eat shit over and over again.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Arantor said:

    If you ban all the guns, only the criminals have guns. Good plan!

    Are you sure you're English?


  • SockDev

    My birth certificate and passport say so, and I'm currently in England typing this... does that count?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    What's the worse that'll happen if you simply leave at closing time?

    He'd probably have to endure the withering glare of his coworkers and management or something. I hear in Japan that drives people to commit suicide.

    Maybe they make him sit in a room all day with a statue of Park Geun-hye glowering at him until he feels so guilty he slinks back to work.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Perhaps you're secretly not English.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Maybe they make him sit in a room all day with a statue of Park Geun-hye glowering at him until he feels so guilty he slinks back to work.

    I'm amused that you know the president.

    @FrostCat said:

    He'd probably have to endure the withering glare of his coworkers and management or something. I hear in Japan that drives people to commit suicide.

    Also interestingly amusing that you know so much about it. People usually don't care to know.


  • SockDev

    Perhaps I am not secretly English.



  • See, this is why Americans are superior, we don't just work hard, but we work smart. And we don't give a shit if people are glowering at us. Glower away! It's 6:00. I'm going fucking home.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Ascendant said:

    I'm amused that you know the president.

    I checked Wikipedia so I could make that joke.

    @Ascendant said:

    Also interestingly amusing that you know so much about it.

    A combination of reading a lot and knowing people who've seen it--in college I had a friend who worked for a Japanese corporation and told me about some of the stuff like "the guy who screws up but they don't fire him and instead just make him a janitor without changing his salary".

    I was actually being flippant, but I do actually wonder what would happen if you did what @blakeyrat said and just started only coming in for 40 hours a week.



  • @FrostCat said:

    in college I had a friend who worked for a Japanese corporation and told me about some of the stuff like "the guy who screws up but they don't fire him and instead just make him a janitor without changing his salary".

    Holy shit, how do I get my company to do that? I'd be in heaven.

    Reverse commute, working at night so I don't have to deal with traffics or idiots, nice simple work with a very clear cut "I am now done" point, and still my same pay? How is that even punishment!

    @FrostCat said:

    I was actually being flippant, but I do actually wonder what would happen if you did what @blakeyrat said and just started only coming in for 40 hours a week.

    The thing that gets me is that this isn't like some lost art, there are psychological studies that prove definitely that at some point, you're actually working backwards because the code you're writing takes longer to fix than the benefit it provides. I don't know the exact number of hours, but I can guarantee if you're there at 1:00 AM you've been working backwards for quite some time.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    Holy shit, how do I get my company to do that?

    Work for a Japanese company. I hear they don't do it as much these days.

    The other kind of story I'd heard is "you are now in charge of the annual Christmas party. And nothing else." Again, the goal is to get you to quit due to the humiliation. It works a lot better in Asian cultures because

    @blakeyrat said:

    I'd be in heaven.

    Americans will say this stuff even if it's not true. :smile:

    @blakeyrat said:

    How is that even punishment!

    Shame is a greater driver in other cultures.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Shame is a greater driver in other cultures.

    How could you possibly be ashamed of being a janitor being paid $110k? You'd be king of the janitors. Holy shit.



  • @FrostCat said:

    I was actually being flippant, but I do actually wonder what would happen if you did what @blakeyrat said and just started only coming in for 40 hours a week.

    Here is another thing. It is very common in Korea, for a company to hire a guy. And the company will have a contract with a bigger company to send a guy to work at the bigger company. I don't know how the smaller company makes money out of this but it's not difficult to imagine they just take a bit out of the original contract money and give the rest to the guy who will actually work.

    I'm that guy.

    Why am I even doing this?
    I didn't know. The original(small) company didn't tell me. I've only been a bit more than 2 months here now.

    I realise I should really send my resume again.



  • @Ascendant said:

    Here is another thing. It is very common in Korea, for a company to hire a guy. And the company will have a contract with a bigger company to send a guy to work at the bigger company. I don't know how the smaller company makes money out of this but it's not difficult to imagine they just take a bit out of the original contract money and give the rest to the guy who will actually work.

    That's not very unusual. Just a contracting agency. I worked with one early in my career when I was doing Xbox 360 testing for Microsoft (but working for an agency called Volt), and more recently I did a few 6-month stints after I got laid off.

    Now I'm FTE again and kind of hate it. I wouldn't mind being back to the 6-month stints. It was kind of fun.



  • It's not the money, in this Asian culture. It's all about saving the face. It's all about how you look. Very superficial.



  • @Ascendant said:

    It's not the money, in this Asian culture. It's all about saving the face. It's all about how you look. Very superficial.

    Yeah. What's that quote?

    Not only do I not understand that, I don't understand the people who do understand that

    Worst-case scenario you do the janitor gig until you've found another job then move to another neighborhood where your "face" resets to average. Presumably. I mean there's not like a national "face" database tracking you, is there? Just move.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    How could you possibly be ashamed of being a janitor being paid $110k? You'd be king of the janitors. Holy shit.

    I told you, it's a different world view. I think it's a combination of the company subtly-yet-passive-aggressively saying "you fucked up" and a view that you brought shame upon not just yourself but your family, and the easiest way to expiate that is to commit suicide. It used to be the case that a lot of Japanese people killed themselves over reasons westerners would find stupid, like this, or "they didn't do good enough in school" or whatever.

    Eastern cultures value individuals less than Western ones[1]. Did you really not know about this stuff or are you just pulling my leg?

    [1] this is a generalization, possibly an over-generalization. If you're Eastern and I offended you, then I wasn't talking about your culture.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    Now I'm FTE again and kind of hate it. I wouldn't mind being back to the 6-month stints. It was kind of fun.

    I used to enjoy contracting, but the market for people who know Progress is quite a bit smaller, meaning it's actually work sometimes to find the next one, which is partly why I got out of doing it.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Eastern cultures value individuals less than Western ones[1]. Did you really not know about this stuff or are you just pulling my leg?

    Of course I know about it, you dumb fuck. Christ.

    It's a fucking comedy forum. Working as a janitor for $110k and being "king of the janitors" is funny as shit. It's a joke.

    I do admit I do not understand people who actually will work until 1:00 AM to prop-up that system, though. Face or no face, I can't imagine doing that more than 3-4 days in a row without quitting.

    The funny thing is, you know in WWII Japan had a huge problem keeping experienced pilots for two reasons:

    1. The difference between an experienced pilot and an unexperienced one is HUGE. An experienced fighter pilot has no trouble taking on five unexprienced ones. An experinced torpedo pilot is like 5 times more likely to actually hit a ship.

    2. The pilots wanted to kamikaze at the SLIGHTEST provocation. They had to be warned against it at every opportunity, and it still happened constantly. I was reading an auto-biography about a Japanese torpedo bomber during the war, and he was talking about how on one mission in China his engine stalled and they spent like 3 minutes discussing the best way to crash the plane into something valuable before they thought to try restarting the engine-- it restarted right away, no problem. And they were all kind of disappointed.

    Seriously. The pilots were killing themselves over a temporary stall in a 1937-designed rotary engine.


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