The Last Of Us (infected with SPOILER virus!)



  • Just finished The Last Of Us. Beautiful art and scenery-- blown away by the sheer amount of detail every single area got. Great sound and music. Fun gameplay. Overall a great game.

    But...

    I can't shake the feeling that I just played through as the game's villain. :|



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    I can't shake the feeling that I just played through as the game's villain.

    Lorne, you're the villain in every game.

    Even when you play Guitar Hero.



  • Sony.



  • That game has no heroes or villains. Just a bunch of normal people trying to survive as best they can. Yeah sure you might have ended up fucking over the human race, but the other guys weren't exactly doing a good thing. From what I remember, they had done the same thing to many other immune people and failed. There was nothing that special about Ellie, but she was yours to protect dammit.



  • @Nocha said:

    That game has no heroes or villains. Just a bunch of normal people trying to survive as best they can. Yeah sure you might have ended up fucking over the human race, but the other guys weren't exactly doing a good thing. From what I remember, they had done the same thing to many other immune people and failed. There was nothing that special about Ellie, but she was yours to protect dammit.

    No, that's just it. Ellie WAS special and was the ONLY immune person they'd ever encountered. Joel lied to her. He murdered the doctor, then the Firefly leader, and stole Ellie away.

    And she was never Joel's to protect. Sure, he was given the job of escorting her. But halfway through the game Ellie states it pretty clearly. "You're not my dad, and I'm not Sarah (his dead daughter)".

    Along they way Joel obviously started to see the relationship that way. And maybe Ellie was, too. But then he started to lie, manipulate and murder his way into FORCING that relationship.

    Now, it was pretty obvious right from the beginning Joel wasn't a virtuous hero. The first mission is that you're a gun runner, and you hunt down and murder a rival by shooting him in the head while he begs for his life. (It might have been Joel's partner who pulled the trigger, can't remember, but still, Joel was part of it and had not problems with the outcome). He's a completely broken dude who lost everything and spent the past twenty years surviving without caring. But that doesn't make him a hero.

    He spent the entire game roaming the country side, stealing and gunning down hundreds of living human beings rather than looking for any other solution, and in the end took away humanity's only chance of recovering just so he could have, what, a short lifetime with one person. A person who, if she ever discovered his deceit, would hate his fucking guts.

    Lee (The Walking Dead) > Joel

    But Ellie >>> Clementine



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    No, that's just it. Ellie WAS special and was the ONLY immune person they'd ever encountered. Joel lied to her. He murdered the doctor, then the Firefly leader, and stole Ellie away.

    I seem to recall there are recordings or diaries that suggest they have done the same to several others with no success. Nothing to suggest that Ellie is unique once you start investigating a little more.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    And she was never Joel's to protect. Sure, he was given the job of escorting her. But halfway through the game Ellie states it pretty clearly. "You're not my dad, and I'm not Sarah (his dead daughter)".

    Fair enough. I was viewing it as a "They have been through so much shit together and he has been protecting her for so long" lense.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    he started to lie, manipulate and murder his way into FORCING that relationship.

    I don't really remember this bit? I know he was trying to reassure Ellie a fair bit, but I don't think he was forcing a relationship. She pretty much cared for him all winter when she didn't need to...

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    He's a completely broken dude who lost everything and spent the past twenty years surviving without caring. But that doesn't make him a hero.

    I never said he was a hero. In fact, I would agree with this completely.



  • This is the only game it saddens me to be a Sony exclusive.



  • Too bad it's just Yet Another Zombie Game, of which there's been about 47 million in the last five years.

    I'd love to see quality writing in maybe SOME FUCKING OTHER GENRE FOR GODS SAKE.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Too bad it's just Yet Another Zombie Game, of which there's been about 47 million in the last five years.

    Worse. It's my least favorite genre. "Zombie game in which the main enemy is an endless horde of psychopathic humans because The Real Enemy Is Man". Most of the levels are Joel gunning and choking his way through large groups of humans. Because without society, apparently every single crazy person comes out of the woodworks. And can group into large bands of well-organized gangs with resources and hierarchy. And they have unlimited amounts of ammo and food. And they're literally everywhere you go. Group after group after group of lunatics and cannibals. And even if you mow down hundreds of them, there's still more.

    When you have a massive world with an enemy who already is "large groups, unlimited resources, constantly attacking", it's boring as fuck to have a second version of them who are also humans.

    And then there's the whole thing about humanity being reduced to a fraction of it's original size, and people struggling to survive. It bugs the fuck out of me that people aren't doing everything in their power to group up, hunker down, and protect each other. Protect every human life. And more than everything: fuck like bunnies every single moment they can. Procreate. Replenish the ranks before the population dips to a point where the gene pool crashes.

    @blakeyrat said:

    I'd love to see quality writing in maybe SOME FUCKING OTHER GENRE FOR GODS SAKE.

    I'm sure there is. Have you checked Steam?



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    I'm sure there is. Have you checked Steam?

    Rise of the Tomb Raider was pretty well-written. As was the first Tomb Raider. Not mind-blowing perhaps, but miles better than before the reboot.

    SOMA was pretty well-written. Saint's Row III and IV deserve props for the comedy category.

    Spec Ops: The Line is the last game with writing that really blew my mind away. Which was ALSO kind of a shame because the gameplay was so mediocre.



  • @Nocha said:

    I seem to recall there are recordings or diaries that suggest they have done the same to several others with no success.

    IIRC it wasn't recordings or diaries. Joel said this to Ellie after he "rescued" her, so I have to believe it's a lie.

    I could be wrong, it was a couple of years ago...



  • @NedFodder said:

    @Nocha said:
    I seem to recall there are recordings or diaries that suggest they have done the same to several others with no success.

    IIRC it wasn't recordings or diaries. Joel said this to Ellie after he "rescued" her, so I have to believe it's a lie.

    I could be wrong, it was a couple of years ago...

    It is exactly that. Interspersed with the scene where Joel carries Ellie out, and murders the Firefly leader while she begs. It's-- it's pretty unambiguous.

    But I did some Gagglebinging, and it turns out there's a lot of confused people. Mainly because they are stupid and can't comprehend things. There's a recording you pick up in the final level that goes on about the details of Ellie's immunity, and talks about how her reaction to the spores is completely different from everyone else's, and how the doctor hopes this will mean everyone's sacrifices over the years won't be in vain.

    They somehow interpreted this as there have been many many immune patients who have died during surgery. Because shoulder aliens.



  • @blakeyrat

    Okay, so I'm back from Last of Us to playing Uncharted 1. I'm 5 chapters in, and so far it's been:

    • one puzzle (stepping on stones)
    • a few scenes of platforming, which are pretty much just button mashing since the jumps auto-aim (which I like, but still)
    • about seven hundred firefights where I've mowed down thousands of dudes

    I guess I was getting into this expecting a bit more Tomb Raider and a bit less Doom. The plot so far isn't anything spooktacular-- I'm after treasure. For some reason. And then I gun down lots and lots of dudes. Then jump. Then moar shooting french black dudes. Maybe a cut scene about "I have a map there's gold maybe?"

    Does-- does it get any better, or is this the entire game? Because I have so many games in my "to play" queue already-- but I'll give Uncharted a chance if it gets better.



  • That's pretty much it. There's tons and tons of gunplay.

    If it makes you feel any better, I kind of stopped playing Rise of the Tomb Raider because it's also gun-heavy for whatever reason.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    That's pretty much it. There's tons and tons of gunplay.

    That's disappointing. Especially since it isn't particularly GOOD gunplay. Hide behind a rock. Pop up and shoot at bad guys until the screen starts to go grey. Hide until I regenerate. Repeat. And the enemies have Magic Targeting Radar, so it isn't even like I can sneak around or get the drop on them.

    Thanks for the info.



  • Uncharted 1 hasn't aged very well: the gun play is too repetitive, the story and levels are too linear, the graphics look relatively poor, and the protagonist is a serial murderer (not unlike Joel). The sequels added a lot more options for sneaking during combat (along with improved visuals), but I'm not sure you'd enjoy them either (levels still linear, protagonist still murderer). They were great when they came out, but now they're just average. 2013's Tomb Raider basically ruined the Uncharted series for me (lots more to do than shoot from behind chest-high walls).



  • The Vita one shook it up, sometimes you were hanging from a rope and had to shoot like 57 guys with your pistol.

    They had an animation of him reloading his pistol 1-handed while dangling from a rope that I'd like to see in slow motion, because I'm pretty sure that's physically impossible.

    @NedFodder said:

    2013's Tomb Raider basically ruined the Uncharted series for me (lots more to do than shoot from behind chest-high walls).

    I have to agree with this, other than a few stupid quick time events (why do AAA devs think people LIKE those!?), Tomb Raider was an excellent example of the genre.

    It looks even better when you've played Rise of the Tomb Raider. Haha.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    quick time events (why do AAA devs think people LIKE those!?)

    I can't stand them, but my fiance says they're one of her favorite parts of Tomb Raider. She says she usually gets bored with cut scenes, but QTEs make her pay attention.



  • I'd be ok with them if I could turn them off.

    I guess it's not as much, "I don't see why they exist", but "I don't see why they can't be skipped".

    And... really? She got bored of Tomb Raider's cut scenes? It's one of the few games I've ever played where the characters were actually... likeable a bit.

    BTW, Jonah returns in Rise of the Tomb Raider. I love Jonah. He doesn't seem to hook up with Lara, though.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    She got bored of Tomb Raider's cut scenes?

    No, she gets bored by cut scenes in general. She liked literally everything about Tomb Raider.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    I'd like to see in slow motion

    If he's using his chest or leg or something to insert the new magazine, he could do it one-handed. You can certainly drop a pistol mag one-handed; the only thing holding them in is the pressure from the release button.



  • He's hanging upside-down from a rope.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    He's hanging upside-down from a rope.

    Without seeing specifically what he's doing I can't be sure, obviously, but it might be possible. Unless you had some kind of special-purpose equipment, you'd probably have to holster the gun, retrieve the mag, unholster the gun, drop the old mag, which IS something you can do one-handed, and then insert the new one--like I said, you'd probably have to brace the magazine against your torso or something, but once you had the gun in position with just the tip :giggity: in the mag well, you could just push it down onto the magazine. It'll lock into place when it's fully engaged.



  • When you show me a video of someone doing it, I'll believe it can be done.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    When you show me a video of someone doing it, I'll believe it can be done.

    For the sake of discussion, would you accept video of a person standing on one foot and using only one hand? Because if I were crazy enough to consider filming myself doing it it would be a PITA to find a place I could tie a rope that I could then hang from.



  • No. Nathan Drake is hanging from a rope. Why is this so hard?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    Why is this so hard?

    You go hang yourself[1] from a fucking rope and then ask yourself that question. Duh. I thought you were smart.

    [1] however Drake does it. That wasn't a suggestion to hang by the neck, unless you're into autoerotic asphyxiation, like David Carradine, and if you are I certainly don't want to hear about it.


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