<spoiler>pre madonna</spoiler> on a ¡Jedi! hunt



  • The guy who is in some way behind redis (didn't research the details) rants about his awful job hunt experiences.

    Except he can't help coming off as a spoiled primadona who expected red carpet to be rolled out for him.

    I mean, sure, some of those interviews truly sound bad. But that many? "You walk down the street, you meet a jerk - you met a jerk. You meet 10 jerks - you're the jerk"

    Believe him or not, someone's a WTF here.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    "I've been without a job for almost two years, and I'm running out of money, but it never occurred to me not to go gallivanting around the entire hemisphere!"


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @FrostCat said:

    "I've been without a job for almost two years, and I'm running out of money, but it never occurred to me not to go gallivanting around the entire hemisphere!it can't be my fault because I've been busy networking the entire time."

    Must have been those meddling TDWTFers.



  • Finding a job is frustrating. I guess he is ranting and trying to control himself. He makes a few good points:

    So, since I didn't have a solid chunk of the Python API memorized, they proceeded to invalidate my entire university schooling (CS degree, 3 years), work experience (10 years), and life experience of sitting in front of a computer making things (~20+ years)?

    I think we've discussed this around here. It's impossible to know every little detail of every technology out there from the top of your head.

    Interviews are a pain and since it's time wasted, many people try to get over with them as fast as possible. Specially on IT, were they drag n developers who excel at social and communication skills into a room where a person is trying to be smarter than them (not really, but usually devs have this big ego which make them ask stupidly complex questions that only work to reassure themselves on their awesomeness)


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    He makes the classic mistake of assuming everyone he meets would be lucky to have him. In the several instances where he hadn't worked with something very in-depth and struggled to remember the specifics? He was probably a bad fit for the job. Just being good at something doesn't make you the best candidate for every position ever. Jesus.



  • I'm sure he would have done fine from a technical standpoint.

    The problem is, he knows it. And I bet he made sure the people he interviewed with knew it. And that they knew he knew it.

    IMO it's pretty revealing that the only interview which he passed with flying colors was the one where no one met him in person.



  • Right, but if you look at his personal projects, and the only parts that aren't in erlang are lisp... How many jobs do you think there are in the world that he would be a good fit for, at least from a hiring manager's point-of-view? Is Ericsson still even a company any more?



  • I just feel like I'd be much more sympathetic if he actually got an offer from any of the companies and rejected it based on the WTFery.

    So far it sounds like "they didn't want me, so they suck balls, amirite? Not like that company which did hire me, they're awesome and have a great hiring department" kind of sour grapes.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @cartman82 said:

    it's pretty revealing that the only interview which he passed with flying colors was the one where no one met him

    Not only that, he explicitly loves that they didn't ask him to do anything. They just took his word for how awesome he is. It's like, look, the company that asked him about front end JavaScript or SQL - which he considered "irrelevant" - learned something valuable about his ability to do what they needed.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    I don't think "primadona" is the right word. He sounds more like a cockhole. If his representation of how he acted is accurate, I wouldn't have hired him either. No matter how talented he really is.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    Reading that blog post, I wouldn't hire him for anything corporate ever. He seems like he'll only be happy running his own startup.

    If you apply to jobs in a way linked to your online identity, don't bitch about jobs in your blog


  • SockDev

    If by "is in some way behind Redis" you mean submitting under 100 lines of code, sure...


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Yamikuronue said:

    He seems like he'll only be happy running his own startup.

    Maybe. But he doesn't seem like the type of person that can survive in an environment where he doesn't have someone else to blame for his failures.



  • A bit off topic - if a recruiter for a C++ programmer asks if you are willing to learn PL/1, should that be a red flag? I really don't know PL/1, but it stinks of evil.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    The IBM language from the 60's? Never touched it, but an IBM language that is 50+ years old doesn't sound like fun to me.


  • SockDev

    Why qualify the age? JSONX is a thing we shouldn't have...


  • SockDev

    *Googles JSONX*

    *wants the portion of her brain that will remember it removed*


  • SockDev

    The clue was in the phrase, "shouldn't be a thing"


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Arantor said:

    Why qualify the age?

    Because when I hear of any language that old, I think of COBOL. When I think of COBOL, I want to commit seppuku.

    Filed under: Body too similar


  • SockDev

    @Arantor said:

    The clue was in the phrase, "shouldn't be a thing"

    Ah, but if I let that phrase stop me researching stuff, then I wouldn't have found out about… no, that's a bad example… that too… oh, and that… erm… right… OK, maybe that phrase should stop me occasionally…


  • SockDev

    If it's me saying it, you probably shouldn't be looking ;)


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Arantor said:

    JSONX


  • SockDev


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    I was already familiar with it. I just wanted to draw a name comparison between it and a horrible horror film. ;)



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    In the several instances where he hadn't worked with something very in-depth and struggled to remember the specifics?

    That's bullshit.

    I can't remember shit. The only part of my memory that works is my spatial memory which, natch, virtually no software actually takes advantage of anymore. When it comes to stuff like Python API functions. I solve it partially by using an IDE with autocomplete and a class browser, and partially by having a OneNote data file of 3 GB and constantly growing.

    In my field, I'd be very suspicious of someone who could remember all the details of the Federal laws relating to, for example, healthcare spending accounts without referring to notes. Nobody at this company can do it. I move that nobody anywhere can do it, and the person claiming to be able is relying more on bullshit than expertise.

    On the other hand, anybody who would reject a candidate PURELY based on that is a dick employer you do not want to work with. But I'm guessing that's not actually what happened.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    But I'm guessing that's not actually what happened.

    That's a safe bet. He sounds like a dickhole.



  • 2 year traveling hiatus. Yeah, I've run into these special snowflakes before.
    "Please explain your gap in work."
    "I'm so awesome that I knew I'd get a job at the drop of a hat so I waited until money was running out."

    Rejected reason: Lack of responsibility, planning, and foresight.


    1st company

    60k is unreasonably low. Well, that was secondary to, "The work isn't ambitious enough".

    A beggar should be ready to dig ditches for a living.


    2nd company

    "So, since I didn't have a solid chunk of the Python API memorized"

    Legit complaint, but I have low trust at the moment, because of this:

    • CS degree, 3 years -
      gets you the interview for entry job
    • work experience (10 years), -
      gets you average salary
    • life experience of sitting in front of a computer making things (~20+ years) -
      ok, what does this amount to?
      I had spent the past few months mostly doing frame-by-frame video editing (for a pet project) in Motion—which has zero applicability to an Internet Search Company interview.

    hmm....


    3rd

    So, after Internet Search Company rejection, I gave up on applying to new places for a few months Due to other reasons like: succumbing to multi-day food sickness three times in less than a month, traveling to costa rica for a few weeks, then recovering upon re-entry to the US in San Diego.

    Ok, I thought you were out of money?

    "(searching was forbidden in the solo laptop portion)"

    Understandable, because you'll just copy-paste something. But this is indicative of a fundamental problem computer science has with testing skills. Here you're actually onto something. But of course, there's nothing yet offering suggestions.

    "Now, the JavaScript position they advertised wasn't mentioned as a front-end/design JS thing. There's plenty of JS work these days in non-design application architectures. So, they could have saved themselves a lot of time by having an accurate job posting mentioning they wanted JS+Designer."

    Wouldn't that be the first question you ask, though? It seems like you're having a lot of personal failures, and blaming everything on the companies.


    "Plus (warning: GRIPE AHEAD)"

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL


  • SockDev

    @Yamikuronue said:

    In the several instances where he hadn't worked with something very in-depth and struggled to remember the specifics?

    Depends specifically on what specifics. For instance, if I was interviewing someone for a junior dev role (believe it or not, I have actually done this!), I'd expect them to be familiar with collections and LINQ*, but I wouldn't expect them to be able to write an implementation of IAuthorizationFilter without access to MSDN.

    *Our software is written in .NET



  • @Polygeekery said:

    ...horrible horror film.

    Is that a good one or a bad one?


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    When an entitled dickweed like this guy says "a huge portion of the Python API", most of the time he means "I couldn't write valid Python in ten minutes of trying, but I'm actually the best at Python guys, even though I haven't touched it in six years, I'm really amazing."

    Actually being asked to remember obscure trivia about Python is :wtf:



  • There's something to be said about programming skills where one can work up the knowledge of a new language on the job.

    However, that will put you at a disadvantage.

    If you are, in fact, wanting that type of job anyway, it seems like your best bet would be to freshen up / study on the knowledge before the interview.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @coldandtired said:

    Is that a good one or a bad one?

    Yes.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    I think we've discussed this around here. It's impossible to know every little detail of every technology out there from the top of your head.

    Interviews are a pain and since it's time wasted, many people try to get over with them as fast as possible. Specially on IT, were they drag n developers who excel at social and communication skills into a room where a person is trying to be smarter than them (not really, but usually devs have this big ego which make them ask stupidly complex questions that only work to reassure themselves on their awesomeness)

    When interviewing devs, assuming they make it past the "discuss your resume" portion, I will give them some general knowledge stuff. Like if they claim to have even basic knowledge of asp.net and web development, I'll ask them some of the most basic shit I can think of that anyone with even passing experience with the framework should know.

    • What's the difference between viewstate and session?
    • What's the difference between page_load and page_prerender?
    • How would you pass a variable between two pages?

    I'm not asking anything tricky, or anything complex, or anything that should require Google or MSDN. You'd be surprised how many people struggle.

    After that, it's a bunch of "how would you" questions. I almsot don't care if the answer is correct or not. Just that they can think about the answer and articulate it. And then I'll continue with the interview, and later ask them the same question, but with "the last solution was rejected by the client because..."

    Example. Current company makes software that takes subset of data from an ERP, and exposes it on a web. Reasons: only need to expose a subset of data (not entire ERP), and don't want website traffic to take up cycles in ERP database.

    So I'll ask just that. "You have a client who has an ERP system. It has all the company data-- finance, payroll, warehouse, pricing, customers, so forth. They want a website, but only want to expose some of the data; customers as shoppers, items and pricing, that sort of stuff. But for security reasons, the website can't have direct access to the ERP database. How would you do that?"

    If they come up with a design ("I'd use web services on the ERP server that only the web server can see"), cool. They're thinking. Later I'll throw them a curve ball. "The client says the web service are taking up too many resources in the database. They need to run lots of accounting reports and stuff, so the web service is either timing out, or killing the reports. They want you to redesign to fix it. What would you do?"

    Chances are if they've made it to that point, they're a good candidate.

    I'll still have them do a quick bit of code. Something simple and CRUD-y. Just so they aren't a complete bullshitter.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @xaade said:

    60k is unreasonably low.

    He mentioned interviewing in NYC--that suggests the job was in that area. I wouldn't want to try to live near where I worked in NYC on that kind of money.



  • @FrostCat said:

    He mentioned interviewing in NYC--that suggests the job was in that area. I wouldn't want to try to live near where I worked in NYC on that kind of money.

    I understand completely... for you and me.

    But this is coming from a guy that apparently packed up and traveled around with what might have been no income, and then waits until he's out of money to find a job.

    This is not a responsible person.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @NeighborhoodButcher said:

    I really don't know PL/1, but it stinks of evil.

    I wrote some PL/I at a summer internship in the 80s. It's like COBOL on steroids. I didn't know it was still an actual thing.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    and partially by having a OneNote data file of 3 GB and constantly growing

    Can you play it on random and slo-mo?

    More seriously, I totally agree With you about memorizing an API. There's some stuff I remember And other stuff I can never remember. But I know how to look it up so who cares?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Our budgets come from break-fix sort of work. That is where a good portion of our revenue comes from. What that has taught me is that a good IT guy is a guy who knows what to Google for.

    Learning the tech field is like trying to drink from a firehose. You can't know everything. But if you know what to search for, and how to search for it, that is what makes you effective when something new comes your way. That is approximately every day.


  • BINNED

    @Polygeekery said:

    Our budgets come from break-fix sort of work. That is where a good portion of our revenue comes from. What that has taught me is that a good IT guy is a guy who always leaves some bugs to be fixed laterknows what to Google for.

    FTFJS :grin:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    +++++++

    So much this.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Actually, if I were hiring, I'd try to do something to test that, like give them a simple broken project (with something somewhat obscure but still reasonably google-able) and tell them to fix it.

    Because in reality, that's what you'll be doing.....


  • kills Dumbledore

    So, the only place willing to hire me is the place where I ...never met anybody in person

    I think he smells. Understandable after being homeless for so long.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    What's the difference between viewstate and session?
    What's the difference between page_load and page_prerender?
    How would you pass a variable between two pages?

    At the interview for my upcoming new job, I had a few questions like that, despite making them aware I hadn't done any web work. It was a standard set of questions they use for all developers so I wasn't expected to know everything.

    I made it clear where I was guessing based on other experience, where I had a fairly good idea and when I had no idea. Must have worked since I got the job (first one I interviewed for, none of this "months of bad companies that are bad because they don't want me" shit)



  • @RaceProUK said:

    I'd expect them to be familiar with collections and LINQ*,

    Here we just ask for basic logic, but the candidates don't even seen to understand that one DateTime being lesser than the other does not mean they represent different days. (they forget about time)



  • @Jaloopa said:

    I made it clear where I was guessing based on other experience, where I had a fairly good idea and when I had no idea. Must have worked since I got the job (first one I interviewed for, none of this "months of bad companies that are bad because they don't want me" shit)

    We're a web dev shop, so that explains the questions. But if it was for a junior position (or even an intermediate who is moving from winform to webform), I'd accept "this is what I'm familiar with, but here's how I'd learn those answers". Or, as you said, "Here's the knowledge I have of this, and what I can infer to be the correct answer". At least you're showing you can think and reason, and aren't afraid to admit when you need additional info.

    I'd eliminate a candidate for:

    • A flat "I don't know", full stop, no other explanation. Well, I expect them to know, or to be able to learn
    • A bullshit answer that is wrong, but they're presenting as if it's correct. Or hoping to obfuscate with bullshit. Fuck off. I don't need someone who will lie to me to cover up their lack of ability or knowledge


  • @Sentenryu said:

    Here we just ask for basic logic, but the candidates don't even seen to understand that one DateTime being lesser than the other does not mean they represent different days. (they forget about time)

    Yeah, if you really want to fuck up an interview candidate, ask them almost any question about datetime manipulation.

    • How do you get only the date portion of the current date? (bonus points for doing this in SQL)
    • You have two datetime ranges (start1, end1, start2, end2). Write a function that will determine if they overlap.
    • Write a function that will take two datetimes as an input, and return how many days are between. Input: January 15, 2000 and March 2, 2000
    • How do you account for leap years and daylight savings time?

    The last one is a trick question. The only correct answer is "I don't. I use the standard libraries."


  • kills Dumbledore

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    A flat "I don't know", full stop, no other explanation

    I did say that on one I had literally no idea on. If I'd encountered it in a work situation, I'd have Googled it, but this was a pen-and-paper test.

    I think it's good to have some very hard questions in an interview, to see if the candidate freaks out or starts trying to work towards an answer


  • SockDev

    I'm still pleased with the one coding test I had in an interview. The catch that, as far as they knew, it wasn't supposed to be solvable in PHP.

    It was, of course, just through retardary and syntax contortions that you should never ever do in production code because for the problem at hand, you shouldn't be using PHP anyway.



  • @Jaloopa said:

    I did say that on one I had literally no idea on. If I'd encountered it in a work situation, I'd have Googled it, but this was a pen-and-paper test.

    I think it's good to have some very hard questions in an interview, to see if the candidate freaks out or starts trying to work towards an answer

    That's true. As long as the question is designed to test that. I was thinking "what is this basic concept". In that case, "I don't know" isn't good enough. "I don't know, but I can find out" is acceptable.


  • kills Dumbledore

    @Arantor said:

    it wasn't supposed to be solvable in PHP.

    To make a long story short, the problems on the blackboard that I had solved thinking they were homework were in fact two famous unsolved problems in statistics. That was the first inkling I had that there was anything special about them.


  • SockDev

    To be fair, there was nothing particularly unsolvable about it, just the way it was framed and the solution required some dexterity.

    Problem: you're given the bottom left and top right co-ordinates of two rectangles. Take the area of the two rectangles and sum them together. If the two rectangles have an overlap, subtract it from the area so the result you get from this function is the total covered area of the two rectangles. (and you only count the area once not twice)

    The catch: do this in O(1) time and space complexity.

    The problem setter assumed that you'd end up having an if() statement for the overlap and having different executions depending on the overlap which wouldn't be O(1) time given varying inputs.

    The solution, of course, relies on the fact that ((x > y) && (a > b)) and its ilk, even in PHP, has a value, specifically a numeric value of 1 for true and 0 for false and you can contort through multiplying by 1 or 0 to make it a single equation that sums the area and then subtracts (coordinates > coordinates) * (area of overlap) from it.

    Contortion, but doable.


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