Half hour back into ubuntu and I already want to blow my brains out.



  • Just need a simple fucking VM to test one simple fucking python script, and almost instantly I'm second guessing my commitment to eventually switch to *nix in lieu of ever allowing Windows 10 into my world. All the old bullshit is back.

    • Typing the root password every 15 seconds for every little fucking thing? Check
    • Not being able to disable the root password? Check
    • Hysterical warnings from all corners about all the horrible shit that will happen if I ever use anything but a locked-down regular user account to do anything? Check
    • C&Ping mysterious terminal commands from google to do shit that a decent OS would have built into the UI? Check.
    • Having to build shit from source because reliable, universal executables are still a pipe dream? Check
    • Having to completely replace the OS because they EoL releases after nine fucking months? Check (the 13.04 VM had all the guest tools preinstalled)

    Ubuntu is the retarded, paranoid redneck sitting on his porch aiming his shotgun at every passing car of the computing world.



  • In a system where everything presumes root/user duopoly, you're best off just going along. Otherwise, you end up fighting the OS, as you're obviously doing.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Typing the root password every 15 seconds for every little fucking thing? Check

    Pretty sure Ubuntu supports the "su" command which lets you be somewhat rootish for the rest of the terminal.

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Not being able to disable the root password? Check

    Why would you? You literally only had to type in your password once....

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Hysterical warnings from all corners about all the horrible shit that will happen if I ever use anything but a locked-down regular user account to do anything? Check

    Dude, the warnings you get from everybody here if you disable UAC in windows are just as bad....

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    C&Ping mysterious terminal commands from google to do shit that a decent OS would have built into the UI? Check.

    Meh, I guess thats true?

    Then again, installing general stuff on a Ubuntu machine is not that hard? sudo apt-get python I would guess?

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Having to build shit from source because reliable, universal executables are still a pipe dream? Check

    Doesn't Ubuntu have a not only a packagemanager (or 2) but also a central software-manager-app? Where you can search for and download your stuff?

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Having to completely replace the OS because they EoL releases after nine fucking months? Check (the 13.04 VM had all the guest tools preinstalled)

    You are inside a VM.... Why do you care about the EoL that badly?


    Look, I don't want to defend Ubuntu here but I really don't see the reason for the hate. Yes, it's still not perfect in terms of UI, yes, C&P is still a practice being taught because reasons, yes it has A LOT of problems but urgh.

    Filed Under: I am aware you want to install more than just python!
    Also Filed Under: Does "sudo startx" give you a root interface, btw? I never tried that



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    I'm second guessing my commitment to eventually switch to *nix

    https://what.thedailywtf.com/t/posting-without-comment/53765/1



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Having to completely replace the OS because they EoL releases after nine fucking months? Check (the 13.04 VM had all the guest tools preinstalled)

    They have LTS versions, you know. Not that the EOL is important if you're testing one simple Python script...

    Also, here's a nickel kid, buy yourself a Debian.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Typing the root password every 15 seconds for every little fucking thing? Check

    You can configure sudo to remember the authorization for a few minutes (at least on the command-line, but I'm pretty sure there's a similar setting for PolicyKit somewhere).

    Not being able to disable the root password? Check

    Better than OSX where you can do that, but cannot use sudo if you do. So TR:wtf: is Apple, again.

    Having to build shit from source because reliable, universal executables are still a pipe dream? Check

    I bet there's a PPA for everything you installed from source (if it's not in universe already). You were probably just too lazy to google it.

    Having to completely replace the OS because they EoL releases after nine fucking months?

    If you're literally too dumb to read the website which tells you to install the LTS if you don't want to upgrade twice a year, then nobody can help you.



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Having to completely replace the OS because they EoL releases after nine fucking months? Check (the 13.04 VM had all the guest tools preinstalled)

    Ubuntu LTS is mantained for 5 years, and is the recommended install. The website clearly advice you that the short-life version is for developers and testers

    You can install a lot of shit from ubuntu software center, and in my normal use it's very rare for me to need to build something from source.

    And damn people that think it's fine to have a root user without password, running the system as root, or something like that. That's how criminals get botnets.

    Go back to windows, hog your system with a noisy antivirus that screams at you every time it updates it's definitions like avast, and having more spyware for everything you download for free. Or pay money for better apps.

    Have a windows VM ready for some app that is too annoying for you on windows if you like.

    Windows 10 can't be that bad anyway. If you want to live in windowsland, sooner or later you'll have to to be upgraded.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @fbmac said:

    every time it updates it's definitions

    :twitch:





  • @Kuro said:

    Pretty sure Ubuntu supports the "su" command which lets you be somewhat rootish for the rest of the terminal.

    su requires a root password to be configured; sudo su will allow you to get a root terminal without a root password being set. People often advise against doing this, but it is convenient if you need to do a series of operations which require root.

    sudo normally remembers you typed your password for several minutes; the graphical dialog does not. sudo also only remembers this within a terminal session (won't work in a new tab).

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Not being able to disable the root password? Check

    You actually can disable the password prompt in /etc/sudoers. I never tried what this does to graphical password prompts. Be careful editing that file - a syntax error will cause sudo to stop working completely.


  • sockdevs

    @PleegWat said:

    You actually can disable the password prompt in /etc/sudoers. I never tried what this does to graphical password prompts. Be careful editing that file - a syntax error will cause sudo to stop working completely.

    recommended way to edit that file is via the visudo command. that makes the edit to a temporary file and only replaces the existing sudoers if the new one passes syntax

    no... don't go running screaming because i said vi it actually respoects the value for $EDITOR and uses that, only falling back to vi id $EDITOR isn't set.

    ubuntu sets $EDITOR to nano by default.



  • @accalia said:

    recommended way to edit that file is via the visudo command. that makes the edit to a temporary file and only replaces the existing sudoers if the new one passes syntax

    Yeah, I should've mentioned that.



  • Really great timing on that topic title there...



  • Welp, they do come in 3s: Lemmy, Medowlark Lemmon and now Ian Murdock!



  • I bet there's a PPA for everything you installed from source (if it's
    not in universe already). You were probably just too lazy to google it.

    Needed pip to install python packages. apt-get install-ing threw a bunch of 404 errors. Package manager was useless without reconfiguring it to use the archived repositories, which was the point where the work of fixing began to outweigh the work of just getting a different VM.

    If you're literally too dumb to read the website which tells you to install the LTS if you don't want to upgrade twice a year, then nobody can help you.

    I'm perfectly aware of LTS releases, It just didn't cross my mind that there was a universe out there where installing a couple python packages could require a complete OS upgrade (or downgrade).



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Needed pip to install python packages. apt-get install-ing threw a bunch of 404 errors. Package manager was useless without reconfiguring it to use the archived repositories, which was the point where the work of fixing began to outweigh the work of just getting a different VM.
    ...
    I'm perfectly aware of LTS releases, It just didn't cross my mind that there was a universe out there where installing a couple python packages could require a complete OS upgrade (or downgrade).

    You don't seem to really be aware of what LTS or its absence means, then, when you took an EOL'd distro with you in your timepod.



    1. I knew in the back of my mind about the EoL thing, but didn't think about it. I jumped in mentally unprepared for the shitstorm I was bringing upon myself. My bad.

    2. 13.04 is two versions back from the latest one. How is that "too old"? I'm like 15 versions behind on Firefox. One of my laptops is 5 versions behind on Windows.

    3. Why does any of this matter when I just need a freaking terminal with freaking python?



  • Yeah, ubuntu non-LTS releases used to be 18 months but they went down to 9. And once they turn off the repositories there's not much you can do. So probably better to be on an ubuntu LTS or on debian, which are more long-lived.

    It's weird to me that there are so many docker containers with non-LTS ubuntu base.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    I just need a freaking terminal with freaking python?

    Cygwin?



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    13.04 is two versions back from the latest one.

    Please explain:

    • 13.04
    • 13.10
    • 14.04
    • 14.10
    • 15.04
    • 15.10 (current release)

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    How is that "too old"?

    Let's take a look!

    Version

    Code name

    Docs

    Release date

    End of life date

    Ubuntu 13.04

    Raring Ringtail

    Rel

    April 25, 2013

    January 27, 2014

    Now...lemme look at a calendar...hmmm...December 30 2015. My powers of calendar reading tell me that today is after the end of life date for the stuff you're trying to use.

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Why does any of this matter when I just need a freaking terminal with freaking python?

    So you're saying that when someone says they don't support some software any more you don't understand why there isn't support?


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    two versions back

    Also, it's not Semantic versioning. That's not a major version number, it's the year it came out. It's two years old, almost three.

    One of my laptops is 5 versions behind on Windows.

    You're still running XP? You should feel shame.


  • area_can

    He actually passed away a few years ago but it took a while to get him into the repos...too soon?

    Rest in peace, may his contribution to OSS never be forgotten.



  • @PleegWat said:

    @Kuro said:
    Pretty sure Ubuntu supports the "su" command which lets you be somewhat rootish for the rest of the terminal.

    su requires a root password to be configured; sudo su will allow you to get a root terminal without a root password being set. People often advise against doing this, but it is convenient if you need to do a series of operations which require root.

    I think the "correct" way to do that is with sudo -i. That will start a normal shell as root.



  • Meh, needs to be a VM because reasons.



  • XP's going on 20 years old and it'll still let me install shit just as easily as ever. "No longer supported" doesn't need to mean "Deliberately broken".



  • Like, I said, you don't understand what LTS and its lack mean in this context.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Ubuntu is the retarded, paranoid redneck sitting on his porch aiming his shotgun at every passing car of the computing world.

    But I bet you feel real smart right about now about "[n]ever allowing Windows 10 into [your] world", eh?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    "No longer supported" doesn't need to mean "Deliberately broken".

    As long as you're OK with "no more security updates" and "no new hardware support" and things like that. Good luck with a UEFI bios.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    Good luck with a UEFI bios.

    -shudder- those are painful....

    they're getting better.... but they're not there yet.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @accalia said:

    -shudder- those are painful....

    You must have a bad one, then. I've got two machines at home and two at work and haven't experienced a single problem that wasn't essentially my fault (e.g.: there's an incompatibility with Windows 7 and UEFI that I can't remember the details of, that you solve by turning legacy mode back on.)

    UEFI boots much faster than BIOS systems do.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    You must have a bad one

    INTEL NUC (two of them)

    and a Zantec.... something or other.

    installing windows in UEFI mode worked without a hitch, instlaling linux in UEFI mode was.... excrutiating for the NUC, that involved at least one time where i had to open her up and disconnect the CMOS battery to unbrick it. I eventually gave up with those and flipped them into BIOS mode. they rarely reboot anyway so it's not that big a deal.

    the Zantec wasn't that bad. but it still yells at me every time it reboots through it's piezo speaker that the UEFI boot is in insecure mode because it refused to accept Debian's UEFI signature keys.


  • area_can

    @FrostCat said:

    UEFI boots much faster than BIOS systems do.

    But it doesn't seem to be a huge difference?



  • It means the difference between an OS that works and an OS that the Powers That Be have actively decided to break as a passive-aggressive message to the user to download the new version lest their shit get fucked up by h4xxorz.

    That's the practical answer. What the "real" answer is doesn't make much difference to me.

    Again, my bad for expecting some basic functionality out of an OS release that's newer than the one I use daily.



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    Again, my bad for expecting some basic functionality out of an OS release that's newer than the one I use dailybeing angry about my own ignorance.

    Look, you made a mistake out of ignorance, which we all do. A normal person would go..."Oops, I didn't understand what I was doing," and move on. I can see that you're committed to the blakey-on-linux experience, however.

    Never give in! Never understand it!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Yes, yes it does. But you have to do it from a different terminal than tty7



  • Jesus, did Slashdot take over for the day? What the fuck is happening in this thread.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    @blakeyrat said:

    What the fuck is happening in this thread.

    Dude be time poddin'.

    Also, having used linux and not had to type the root password every 15 seconds, I'm wondering if this guy is basically the linux version of the "I disable UAC so I can keep everything in C:\Windows" guy.



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    Dude be time poddin'.

    Because he didn't magically telepathically know that the "13" in the version number was a year?

    And even if he did know it was a year, why the fuck would they shut off the software download servers that fucking quickly? That's a fucking valid criticism and you know it.

    (The answer these and other questions about Linux are: because it's a shitty OS that barely works.)

    @Yamikuronue said:

    Also, having used linux and not had to type the root password every 15 seconds, I'm wondering if this guy is basically the linux version of the "I disable UAC so I can keep everything in C:\Windows" guy.

    Last time I tried Ubuntu (Ubuntu server running on a Amazon EC2 VM) it never asked a password at all when using SUDO. It shipped totally insecure by default.

    There's a thread about that on the old forums somewhere.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Linux ... it's a shitty OS

    Yeah, a kernel all by itself sure does make for a shitty OS!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Last time I tried Ubuntu (Ubuntu server running on a Amazon EC2 VM) it never asked a password at all when using SUDO. It shipped totally insecure by default.

    You don't know how EC2 sudo works, do you?



  • @Forgotmylogin1 said:

    redneck

    We prefer the term "Agro-American".



  • @rc4 said:

    Yeah, a kernel all by itself sure does make for a shitty OS!

    Wow! It's almost as if the Linux community uses confusing fucking names for everything, specifically so they can deflect criticism of their little software baby!!!

    Look, LINUX SITES are the ones using the word "Linux" to mean the full OS stack. I didn't fucking invent that, it was around long before I even knew what "Linux" was. You can't magically take that back and say "oh now that you're being critical, 'Linux' only means the kernel." Because that's bullshit.

    And you know it's bullshit.

    And you do it anyway.

    Because when a product is as shitty as Linux, and you need to defend it, you gotta use every bullshit rhetorical trick in the book, right?



  • @rc4 said:

    You don't know how EC2 sudo works, do you?

    Yes, please explain to me how it's all my fault that the Ubuntu I ran from Amazon was totally insecure.



  • Linux is literally a kernel and nothing more. If you mean an OS based on linux, then you can say "Linux-based OS" or "*nix."


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @rc4 said:

    Linux is literally a kernel and nothing more. If you mean an OS based on linux, then you can say "Linux-based OS" or "*nix."

    I guess it's time to :mute: this thread. I'm pretty sure I've seen this discussion before.



  • ec2-user is setup to only allow key-based auth by default; password logins are disabled. You can't login as root at all, but ec2-user is setup for passwordless sudo to simplify initial configuration. Wow, sounds soooo insecure!!



  • Okay...?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Prepare for a long discussion/flamewar with blakey. ;)



  • @blakeyrat said:

    And even if he did know it was a year, why the fuck would they shut off the software download servers that fucking quickly? That's a fucking valid criticism and you know it.

    LIAR



  • @rc4 said:

    You don't know how EC2 sudo works, do you?

    He'll still make claims that will demonstrate that even after reading your post that explains it to him.

    Never give in! Never understand it!


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