Upgrade to Windows 10 right now or immediately?



  • During the betas, I was pretty positive about Windows 10.

    When it came out, I was cautiously optimistic.

    Once they started with the upgrade nags, I became suspicious and somewhat ambivalent.

    I'm at a point where I'm seriously considering whether to upgrade at all. I'm even willing to contemplate a move to OS X as my main platform. Apple seems to be actually making their system better over time, not desperately trying to leverage its captive user base at any cost.

    Whatever good will Microsoft had left with me, they squandered it with this shit.



  • To be fair, you can still simply close the window using the X in the upper-right corner, and if you click through the itty-bitty inconspicuous chevron on the right-edge of the window there may be a "Nope" prompt somewhere further down the line. (I closed the prompt before exploring the auxiliary pages.) But having the only two large, clearly actionable options on a pop-up page both lead to a Windows 10 download feels inherently icky—like Microsoft's trying to trick less-savvy computer users into downloading the operating system with tactics often used by spammers and malicious websites.

    Quoted in case anyone is too lazy to read the article.



  • They want as many people on Windows 10 as possible. I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they're charging anyone who's getting that screen, or that the screen can't be closed.

    Apple aren't any better - I've had my laptop tell me several times about upgrading to El Capitan.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @loopback0 said:

    Apple aren't any better - I've had my laptop tell me several times about upgrading to El Capitan.

    Which wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't screwed up a number of things, such as being able to use something other than Time Capsule as a backup target. Funnily enough, I've got a NAS that's much bigger than anything Apple sells and I don't see why I can't backup to it. But can I make it work? :angry:



  • @loopback0 said:

    Apple aren't any better - I've had my laptop tell me several times about upgrading to El Capitan.

    Oh? And was their "No" button hidden like in that dialog above?
    Also, it's been a while, but I remember being able to disable update nags on OS X. At least on Mountain Lion.

    My main reason for hesitating with OS X is

    1. Hackintosh reliability (no way I'm paying the Apple hardware tax)
    2. New system protection crap in El Capitan, where you can't access certain folders even as root. Fuck that shit.


  • It's a work laptop, it's waiting someone testing El Capitan with everything before it can be updated.

    None of that surprises me though.



  • You see an OS upgrade prompt. I see this



  • @cartman82 said:

    Oh? And was their "No" button hidden like in that dialog above?

    It's not hidden on Windows. The close button is right there in the corner.
    Can't remember on OSX though - think it was "Not now" and "Now".

    The automatic updates dialog only has "Details" and "Restart" which irritates me.

    @cartman82 said:

    2) New system protection crap in El Capitan, where you can't access certain folders even as root. Fuck that shit.

    Can be turned off. I'd be surprised if the Hackintosh builds didn't come with it disabled anyway.


  • area_pol

    @cartman82 said:

    I'm at a point where I'm seriously considering whether to upgrade at all. I'm even willing to contemplate a move to OS X as my main platform.

    Try Linux then, this one is easy to use and has a nice UI.

    Be careful with the Windows upgrade, I tried doing that on one installation and it corrupted the partition.



  • @Adynathos said:

    Try Linux then, this one is easy to use and has a nice UI.

    Be careful with the Windows upgrade, I tried doing that on one installation and it corrupted the partition.

    I'm already using linux and will continue to do so inside VM-s.

    I need something beefier on the outside, that can run games and stuff like Word and Photoshop.



  • @Adynathos said:

    Try Linux then, this one is easy to use and has a nice UI.
    Fucking hell there is like 50 versions to choose from. So before even downloading I'm having an aneurysm trying to figure out which one to download and from where.



  • It does help you out...

    If you're not sure which one is right for you, "Cinnamon 64-bit edition" is the most popular.

    I only run Linux occasionally in a VM but Mint with Cinnamon is my favourite.



  • I am embarrassed to admit that I don't understand why different distros exist at all except to promote a specific desktop environment and package manager. None of them do a good job of explaining what the more subtle differences are, after all shouldn't you technically be able to install any desktop environment and package manager on any distro? Why is there a tiny version of linux and what does that mean about all the unneeded cruft in other distros?


  • area_pol

    @DogsB said:

    Fucking hell there is like 50 versions to choose from. So before even downloading I'm having an aneurysm trying to figure out which one to download and from where.

    Let me help you then. I recommend the Cinnamon 64-bit version. Cinnamon is a very convenient UI.

    @LB_ said:

    I am embarrassed to admit that I don't understand why different distros exist at all except to promote a specific desktop environment and package manager.

    Good question. You could achieve an equally good setup by installing Cinnamon on Ubuntu (maybe I should do that instead).
    I don't know the motivations of the poeple who make distros, but from a user perspective I find it convenient that there is a system image that has all the common programs / settings working out of the box.
    With Mint you have UI, browser, media, office etc all setup after the 10 minute automatic OS installation.



  • @Adynathos said:

    Let me help you then. I recommend the Cinnamon 64-bit version. Cinnamon is a very convenient UI.
    So is windows and that's already running on my pc. I might throw it on a vm and use it for circumventing the client side web filter.



  • @loopback0 said:

    El Capitan

    Don't get me started on the "rootless" horseshit with El Capitan. Fuck you Apple.

    Also, here's some good info on disabling the Win10 upgrade nag



  • It can be turned off.



  • Yes, but it shouldn't even be a fucking thing.



  • @DogsB said:

    I might throw it on a vm and use it for circumventing the client side web filter.

    I use my Linux VM for a similar purpose.
    Host laptop on the corporate network via Ethernet - Internet through the corporate firewall. Wireless connected to the non-corporate open Internet connection, and the Linux VM bound to the wireless interface.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Apple seems to be actually making their system better over time, not desperately trying to leverage its captive user base at any cost.

    Apple has already brought in, and in the darkness bound, all the users they could capture. Microsoft is just following their lead in this regard.

    I would also dispute they are making anything better. I do anything with Mac directly, but the colleague who takes care of our porting machine reports some problem with almost every MacOS or XCode upgrade. Recently we already reverted two XCode upgrades because of bug in the iOS SDK that renders it unusable (and was reported and is widely known since the first update that had it, but the next one did nothing to fix it).





  • @LB_ said:

    I am embarrassed to admit that I don't understand why different distros exist at all except to promote a specific desktop environment and package manager

    Every time someone is angry with the administration of a certain distro, they make their own fork.

    In the end, it's all Debian, Fedora or SUSE.


  • BINNED

    @anonymous234 said:

    In the end, it's all Debian, Fedora or SUSE.

    Well... kinda. Mint is a fork of Ubuntu, which is a fork of Debian. Meaning, you get Ubuntu's kernel patches as such after all. I'm sure there's other examples of a similar thing, too.

    Also, there's Linux Mint Debian Edition...



  • @anonymous234 said:

    In the end, it's all Debian, Fedora or SUSE. sieversd.

    FTFY



  • @LB_ said:

    I am embarrassed to admit that I don't understand why different distros exist at all except to promote a specific desktop environment and package manager. None of them do a good job of explaining what the more subtle differences are, after all shouldn't you technically be able to install any desktop environment and package manager on any distro? Why is there a tiny version of linux and what does that mean about all the unneeded cruft in other distros?

    There's also the package management, which can be a massive difference. Firstly, obviously the tools you use to do it: apt-get, yum, pacman, etc.

    Then there is the philosophy behind maintaining the packages themselves. Running updates (stuff just updates over time as new upstream versions come out) vs basically taking a snapshot at a certain point in time and only doing security / bug fix upates (though browsers are pretty much all running updates these days for raisins).

    Some distros are more focused on stability and some on getting new shiny stuff to you quickly.



  • I'm curious about the hamburger menu on the top left.



  • @boomzilla said:

    There's also the package management, which can be a massive difference.

    Didn't I say "package manager" twice? I don't understand the point of your post.



  • @LB_ said:

    I don't understand the point of your post.

    Posting while on a conference call is a :barrier: to reading. I apparently focused on the DE stuff.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @cartman82 said:

    Apple seems to be actually making their system better over time

    :rofl:

    In my experience, they DiscoImprove™ their OS with every update.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Bulb said:

    XCode upgrades

    Trigger warnings please!

    @Bulb said:

    bug in the iOS SDK

    Color me unsurprised. I haven't touched any iOS app for over a year, and I'm still recovering from the experience.



  • @loopback0 said:

    It's a work laptop, it's waiting someone testing El Capitan with everything before it can be updated.

    For some reason my boss insists on immediately upgrading whenever Apple pushes out the teensiest tiniest update. He then proceeds to mail out Apple-y files (pages/numbers/keynote documents) what require the latest version of whatever application created them. In the case of pages/..., updating the application often requires updating to the newest version of MacOS. :-1:

    We now just keep one of the work laptops completely up-to-date, and use it to deal with documents sent by him. (We all have a mac at our desks, but most people do their day-to-day work on some other system. The main function of the mac at my desk is that its screen is between me and the office door, so I can kinda sink down in my chair and hide.)


  • Dupa

    @LB_ said:

    Didn't I say "package manager" twice? I don't understand the point of your post.

    Well, there's more to it. Different distributions have different system configuration tools, plus there is the package maintenance philosophy and this quite often makes a difference (Fedora and Arch are the best examples).

    Then there is the custom software and custom configuration that a lot of derivative distros provide, which you could theoretically do yourself or copy, but that's quite often not that simple.

    Also, there are derivative distros that provide a completely different experience like elementary (they roll out their own set of system apps and DE).

    Also, there are much more independent distros than those you mentioned: OpenMandriva/Mageia, Ubuntu is now much more than a Debian flavor, Arch Linux, Gentoo, KaOS, elementary doesn't really work anymore with vanilla Ubuntu, CentOS, deepin.

    And so on and so on.



  • @asdf said:

    @Bulb said:
    XCode upgrades

    Trigger warnings please!

    Seriously. xcode seems to have jumped onto the release train thing. Seems every couple weeks I'm downloading a new 2+G version. Fuck.



  • My impression is, OS X right now is small potatoes compared to the iOS money machine. As long as people can use it to make more iOS crap, Apple bigheads will be happy to leave it in the hands of some small dev team, in a dusty corner of their campus, and concentrate on bigger things. Which, honestly, sounds great to me.

    MS, on the other hand, haven't managed to get a stranglehold on any relevant, growing market. From their perspective, they either leverage Windows captive audience into some mythical Lebensraum, or fade away into another IBM or Oracle.

    So, even if both OS camps have their own problems, MS is more likely to trend further downwards. A bad scene to be stuck in.



  • @cartman82 said:

    During the betas, I was pretty positive about Windows 10.

    Ok...

    @cartman82 said:

    When it came out, I was cautiously optimistic.

    Sure...

    @cartman82 said:

    Once they started with the upgrade nags, I became suspicious and somewhat ambivalent.

    This makes no sense. You like the product until someone tells you to use the product, then you start hating it?

    @cartman82 said:

    I'm at a point where I'm seriously considering whether to upgrade at all.

    Why? Because Microsoft asked you to? How does that make any sense?

    @cartman82 said:

    Apple seems to be actually making their system better over time, not desperately trying to leverage its captive user base at any cost.

    As opposed to Microsoft? I suppose?

    But wait, a couple paragraphs ago, you were "pretty positive" about Windows 10. Why were you "pretty positive" about an OS that wasn't better over time?

    @cartman82 said:

    Whatever good will Microsoft had left with me, they squandered it with this shit.

    I've read your entire post, and I'm not even sure what "shit" you're referring to. Asking you to upgrade?



  • @dkf said:

    being able to use something other than Time Capsule as a backup target.

    Any external drive will do. A NAS requires more tinkering.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I've read your entire post, and I'm not even sure what "shit" you're referring to. Asking you to upgrade?

    Using deceptive tactics to trick noobs into upgrading. Using upgrade nags in the first place. On top of all the other privacy and update control issues. Basically, the same reason you don't want to keep that registry cleaner someone tricked you into installing with a licence agreement checkbox, even if you actually want the product itself.

    The initial offer to upgrade was fine. But there should have been a "don't show this again" checkbox and that should have been the end of it. This is just sleezy car salesman tactics that don't make me want to be a part of MS ecosystem anymore.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Using deceptive tactics to trick noobs into upgrading.

    What deceptive tactic was used?

    @cartman82 said:

    Using upgrade nags in the first place.

    And you're switching to OS X? Have you ever USED OS X? Sheesh.

    @cartman82 said:

    On top of all the other privacy and update control issues.

    Like what?

    @cartman82 said:

    The initial offer to upgrade was fine. But there should have been a "don't show this again" checkbox and that should have been the end of it. This is just sleezy car salesman tactics that don't make me want to be a part of MS ecosystem anymore.

    But if you have a positive opinion of Windows 10, why the fuck haven't you updated?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What deceptive tactic was used?

    Not having a cancel or no button. Non-technical people will think they don't have-

    You know what?
    FUCK YOU

    Don't play an idiot. You know exactly why this is bullshit. If any other company pulled this crap, you'd be the first one to call them out for that.

    Which leads me to three possible conclusions.

    1. You're a Microsoft shill
    2. You're an idiot
    3. You're trolling me

    Whichever one it is,
    FUCK YOU.



  • I'm just trying to figure out your train of thought. I don't understand the connections here:

    1. I like A
    2. B tells me to switch to A
    3. Suddenly I no longer like A

    Huh?



  • B's attempt to get me to switch sounds like desperation. Why would B be desperate if A was okay?

    Because B's not desperate and @cartman82 is stuck in a paranoia-driven timepod complete with tinfoil hat and can't see regular enthusiasm -- or concern for @cartman82's well-being, still driving that unrepaired '74 Ford Pinto whose wheel bearing is about to give out -- as anything but desperation.

    FUCK YOU too, @cartman82.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Gurth said:

    Any external drive will do. A NAS requires more tinkering.

    That's my point. Using a NAS shouldn't be too hard: you mount the drive (this bit is easy, just as it is easy on other operating systems) and tell Time Machine to use it. Or rather you don't. TM says “No”, or rather doesn't list the network mount as backup destination at all. It also says “No” even if you… umm… energetically force it via a supposedly-suitable command line incantation. Because Apple has determined how much backup space you might ever conceive of needing; anyone thinking they require more than 3TB is obviously a liar. Until they release something themselves.

    Fuck you, Apple. Fuck you.

    (But at least I can cp -R stuff over. That actually worked first time.)


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @dkf said:

    anyone thinking they require more than 3TB is obviously a liar

    Indeed! Is there a switch that lets you mount it claiming no more than 32 Gb is available? That might help!

    Edit: Why does Chrome believe 32 Gb is a spelling error? And why does it want to correct it to remove the space between value and unit?



  • @cartman82 said:

    Whichever one it is,FUCK YOU.

    @TwelveBaud said:

    FUCK YOU too, @cartman82.

    @dkf said:

    Fuck you, Apple. Fuck you.

    What's happened to TDWTF when no one demands money any more?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @boomzilla said:

    when no one demands money any more?
    You get Puppet'd. :loud_sound:



  • I still like SUSE best, purely because of YaST.

    @cartman82 said:

    MS, on the other hand, haven't managed to get a stranglehold on any relevant, growing market.

    They have a chance in 2016, if they don't mess it up.

    @TwelveBaud said:

    Why would B be desperate if A was okay?

    Because they don't want to keep patching C.



  • @boomzilla said:

    What's happened to TDWTF when no one demands money any more?

    Communism...



  • I have to admit, I don't really get what's so terrible about 10. I have it at home and at work, and the fact that they buried all the 8.1 ur-PC-is-a-phone nonsense pretty much sold it for me. Also, the console actually works now.

    Then again, I don't have any problem with Unity on Ubuntu, so I don't really understand this let's-all-downgrade-to-Gnome-2.0-like-it's-1912 business either, so...



  • @tar said:

    I have to admit, I don't really get what's so terrible about 10.

    My impression of screenshots and my super brief first hand experience was that the windows looked like the sort of thing you'd get when the system was locked up or whatever and hadn't gotten around to drawing the window decorations. I'm a fan of pretty simple window managers / themes, but they went a bit overboard.



  • @dkf said:

    Funnily enough, I've got a NAS that's much bigger than anything Apple sells and I don't see why I can't backup to it.

    I have no problem using my NAS. Pretty easy to set up too.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.