A little knowledge is dangerous. WTF



  • It may just be me but it really hurts when I read comments made by an otherwise intelligent person on a subject that they know very little about.  Case in point is this rant on the grimthing.com blog titled "Why .NET is a bad idea?"  link http://grimthing.com/archives/2004/05/29/why-net-is-a-bad-idea/.  Seeing how I have been working professionally with .net since it's beta days, I figured I could use a good critical look at it.  This however is not quite the critical look I was looking for.  Here is the first chapter ".NET hopes to address three current problems at Microsoft, namely loss revenue due to pirated software, security problems and users who continue to use older unsupported software. "  and it goes downhill from there.  Just a huge WTF really if this ends up in the google index and someone trying to understand what .NET is and how it works gets this article returned.   Am I out to lunch?

     

     



  • Know very little about? Where inside their whole article do they even attempt to imply they know ANYTHING about .NET?



  • That article is without doubt one of the biggest pieces of c**p I have seen in my life.

    My reponse is reproduced below. 

    WTF? LOL! WTF? LOL! WTF? LOL! 



  • OMFG!

    .NET prevents this from happening by running what is basically java servlets on a central server that end-users run remotely. There isn’t a CD you insert into your desktop and install the software, it’s a subscription-based service similar to Hotmail.


    Uhhh.. sure.. Java servlets.. on a central server. This guy definitely doesn't know anything about .NET other than that fact it sounds like an internet language. I'd like to know how he would explain the huge framework that gets downloaded through Windows update for each version of .NET. I'm not even going to address the numerous software products out there developed in .NET that are available for download - not "subscription-based".

    I hope that in the almost 3 years since the original post, he's been flooded with e-mail about what .NET really is and has gotten a clue.



  • er....the article is from 2004. 2 and a half years ago. the real WTF would be if anyone would see this as pertinent or timely

     

    I'm gonna go dig up some WTFs about the commodore 64. :-)

     

    Seriously, it's crp, tho outdated crp. 

     



  • If you go through the articles on his site, they span a very wide range of subjects and most of them (I'd say all, but I don't have THAT much time to waste) seem to be of the same level. He might be the doctor from today's main article.



  • @j_pilborough said:

    That article is without doubt one of the biggest pieces of c**p I have seen in my life.

    @unklegwar said:

    Seriously, it's cr*p, tho outdated cr*p.

    Are we actually trying to asterisk-out the word crap? Is this a site visited by adults who work/study with some serious programming deformities, or is this some Disneyland ride? C'mon people, cut that shit out.

    *gasp* did I just say that?



  • @unklegwar said:

    I'm gonna go dig up some WTFs about the commodore 64. :-)

    Yeah.  64[b]K[/b]?  WTF is that?  And it wasn't even 64K, it was only 38K usable!

     :-)


    @Manni said:

    @j_pilborough said:
    That article is without doubt one of the biggest pieces of c**p I have seen in my life.
    @unklegwar said:
    Seriously, it's cr*p, tho outdated cr*p.

    Are we actually trying to asterisk-out the word crap? Is this a site visited by adults who work/study with some serious programming deformities, or is this some Disneyland ride? C'mon people, cut that shit out.

    *gasp* did I just say that?

     <south_park>

    "Manni, did you just use the 'S' word?"

    </south_park>
     



  • OK, I think this article of his sums this guy up to the 'T': Minimum Wage Sucks . This guy is against the raising of of the US minimum wage. From my understanding the minimum wage is around USD$4.00 in most states and non existant in others. People like this is the reason why I would vote to introduce selective breeding.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    OMFG!

    .NET prevents this from happening by running what is basically java servlets on a central server that end-users run remotely. There isn’t a CD you insert into your desktop and install the software, it’s a subscription-based service similar to Hotmail.


    Uhhh.. sure.. Java servlets.. on a central server. This guy definitely doesn't know anything about .NET other than that fact it sounds like an internet language. I'd like to know how he would explain the huge framework that gets downloaded through Windows update for each version of .NET. I'm not even going to address the numerous software products out there developed in .NET that are available for download - not "subscription-based".

    I hope that in the almost 3 years since the original post, he's been flooded with e-mail about what .NET really is and has gotten a clue.

    I think you are completely missing the points he is making here and just trying to attack him. He is only talking about Microsoft here, not every single .Net application. He is making the comparison between a java and .net to try and get the users understand how it works.



  • It's been a busy morning - it was good to break it up with a laugh like this :)

    In regard to minimum wage I say this:  The money has to come from somewhere.



  • @ShadowWolf said:

    It's been a busy morning - it was good to break it up with a laugh like this :)

    In regard to minimum wage I say this:  The money has to come from somewhere.

    OK, would you like to try an attempt to survive on minimum wage. At $4/hr working 80 hours per week, 52 weeks per year, you would make a measly $16/yr.

    And what if you got sick? since you cant afford medical insurance it means no income at all.

    There is only one name for working at this rate, and thats 'SLAVERY'.

    At this rate, you NEED to be working all the time just to survive, you have no life, your life belongs to the person your working for.

    I live in Ireland, Minimum wage here is €8.30, thats ~$10.77, and we manage pretty well. The lowest paid persons can still life a comfortable and meaningful life



  • I don't care to argue Minimum Wage with you because you've already made up your mind on it and aren't going to be willing to even listen to me. 

    As a note, Under US law:

    At $4/hr working 80 hours a week, you would make $20,800 due to mandatory overtime laws.



  • OK.  Count the WTFs in these two sentences:


    Even though .NET is based on Java, it is still produced by
    Microsoft and, therefore, more prone to gaping, security holes you
    could drive a tailer-truck through. For instance, Microsoft claims that
    hooks are there for almost any programming language, but how
    many .NET applications can you find that aren’t built with Redmonds
    proprietary programming languages (C#, Visual [basic, C++])?


     



  • @Hitsuji said:

    From my understanding the minimum wage is around USD$4.00 in most states and non existant in others.

    From my understanding, the current federal minimum wage is USD$5.15/hr. Since the federal law overrides state laws, your claim that the minimum wage is nonexistent in certain states is bogus.



  • @Fred Foobar said:

    @Hitsuji said:

    From my understanding the minimum wage is around USD$4.00 in most states and non existant in others.

    From my understanding, the current federal minimum wage is USD$5.15/hr. Since the federal law overrides state laws, your claim that the minimum wage is nonexistent in certain states is bogus.

    You are correct sir, with one clarification:

    http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm 

    In cases where an employee is subject to both the state and federal
    minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher of the two minimum
    wages.



  • @shadowman said:

    @Fred Foobar said:

    @Hitsuji said:

    From my understanding the minimum wage is around USD$4.00 in most states and non existant in others.

    From my understanding, the current federal minimum wage is USD$5.15/hr. Since the federal law overrides state laws, your claim that the minimum wage is nonexistent in certain states is bogus.

    You are correct sir, with one clarification:

    http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm 

    In cases where an employee is subject to both the state and federal
    minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher of the two minimum
    wages.

     

    He wasn't wrong.  You see the minimum wage is a thing we like to call the MINIMUM wage.  That means it's the minimum, not the required.  So if the federeal minimum wage was $5.15 (which it is) and the minimum wage in the state were I live is $7.50 (which it is) that means that to comply with both laws an employer must pay at least $7.50, which is in line with the federal and state law.  If the state minimum wage was $4.00 then to comply with both laws they would have to pay $5.15

     

    As for the ideological standpoint.  You can challenge me to live on the minimum wage (or $4.00/hr if you want) and I would tell you "hell no."  Do you know why?  Because I worked hard in school so I could go to college and learn enough that I don't have to make minimum wage.  If you slacked off in school and didn't go to college then fell in love and started a family, I understand that you might be stretched.  However, it's not my fault, and I'm not about to go tell your boss that it's his fault you need more money and to increase your pay.  Anyways, hardly ANYONE works for minimum wage.  With the exception of immigrants (probably mostly illegal), and some high school students that is.  It's not like unskilled laborers are all making $5.15/hr.   If you work hard you will make more.  I worked fast food in high school, worked hard and after a year or two I was making $7.50.  If I was working full time I would have have benefits (yes, insurance).  I had a friend who worked at jiffy lube washing cars, no education needed for that, and he was making $10/hr because he worked hard.   So the point is, you will make as much as you earn, and most people that make minimum wage probably deserve minimum wage.  The only people I've known that made minimum wage are my friends working at movie theaters.  But their job was so easy that they just messed around the whole time.  If you are raising a family you should just not take a job that is filled by the high school students.

     

    And for those of you who say that sometimes you can't find another job.  That's crap too.  During high school I had an easy time finding jobs that paid above $7.00/hr.  

     

    Last point.  On the subject of censoring the word "crap."  You do realize that the website your on's URL stands for "The Daily What The Fuck," right?



  • @shadowman said:

    @Fred Foobar said:

    @Hitsuji said:

    From my understanding the minimum wage is around USD$4.00 in most states and non existant in others.

    From my understanding, the current federal minimum wage is USD$5.15/hr. Since the federal law overrides state laws, your claim that the minimum wage is nonexistent in certain states is bogus.

    You are correct sir, with one clarification:

    http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/minimumwage.htm 

    In cases where an employee is subject to both the state and federal
    minimum wage laws, the employee is entitled to the higher of the two minimum
    wages.

    Federal minimum wage is $5.15/hr.  Many states (like Washington where I live) have higher minimum wages.  But the problem I have with most people who argue for a higher minimum wage is not the amount, but what level of comfort you expect a minimum wage to provide.

     Lets take a look at some of Hitsuji's comments for example.  "There is only one name for working at this rate, and thats 'SLAVERY'."  No, slavery is working for no compensation.  There are many fields where working for a few years at very low wages in order to learn a trade are common (and used to be very common many years ago).  Even in the case where you are not actively learning new skills there are still those workers who are simply looking for a small amount of additional money.  High school students needing to pay for gas, insurance, and some fun.  Retirees who are as much bored as they need the money (Yes I understand some retirees do need the money).

    This, and variants like it, are the ones I have the most trouble with.  "I live in Ireland, Minimum wage here is €8.30, thats ~$10.77, and we
    manage pretty well. The lowest paid persons can still life a
    comfortable and meaningful life"  What you're saying here is that every non-skilled menial little job should provide for a 'comfortable' standard of living.  So every 16 year old high school student should be able to get a job and live comfortably, hell why not just quit school and work (this is a known outcome of raising the minimum wage by the way).

    Finally, a federal minimum wage does not take into account the vast differences in cost of living in different areas.  If I tried to live in downtown Seattle on minimum wage I'd have a really hard time of it (unless I resort to sucking up all the free government handouts), but in Savanna Georgia it wouldn't be to bad.

    I would prefer to implement selective breeding for people who won't form reasonable arguements.  Of course if I was implementing selective breeding I'd probably be much more consernded with the selection and breeding parts as it related to me ;) 



  • smbell seems like a smart guy.  Indeed raising the minimum wage is an incentive to drop out of school.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @ShadowWolf said:

    It's been a busy morning - it was good to break it up with a laugh like this :)

    In regard to minimum wage I say this:  The money has to come from somewhere.

    OK, would you like to try an attempt to survive on minimum wage. At $4/hr working 80 hours per week, 52 weeks per year, you would make a measly $16/yr.

    And what if you got sick? since you cant afford medical insurance it means no income at all.

    There is only one name for working at this rate, and thats 'SLAVERY'.

    At this rate, you NEED to be working all the time just to survive, you have no life, your life belongs to the person your working for.

    $16,000 a year?  No problem.  I live in a city with a sensible cost of living, and $10,000 is enough for a one-bedroom apartment in a decent part of town (the occasional rowdy college party, but nothing worse), a decent car, insurance on both the apartment and car, food, utilities, and reasonable entertainment expenses.  The extra $6000 will cover medical insurance, with enough left over to save for retirement.

    Now, raising a family on $16,000 a year?  That's another matter entirely.



  • @Carnildo said:

    @Hitsuji said:
    @ShadowWolf said:

    It's been a busy morning - it was good to break it up with a laugh like this :)

    In regard to minimum wage I say this: The money has to come from somewhere.

    OK, would you like to try an attempt to survive on minimum wage. At $4/hr working 80 hours per week, 52 weeks per year, you would make a measly $16/yr.

    And what if you got sick? since you cant afford medical insurance it means no income at all.

    There is only one name for working at this rate, and thats 'SLAVERY'.

    At this rate, you NEED to be working all the time just to survive, you have no life, your life belongs to the person your working for.

    $16,000 a year? No problem. I live in a city with a sensible cost of living, and $10,000 is enough for a one-bedroom apartment in a decent part of town (the occasional rowdy college party, but nothing worse), a decent car, insurance on both the apartment and car, food, utilities, and reasonable entertainment expenses. The extra $6000 will cover medical insurance, with enough left over to save for retirement.

    Now, raising a family on $16,000 a year? That's another matter entirely.

     

    Worse than that...  Calling earning $4.00/hr " 'SLAVERY' " is blatant insensitivity and insulting to people that were actually slaves.  Perhaps you don't realize this, but slavery is defined by the ownership of a person, not the amount they make.  A slave could make $4.00/hr if their "owner" wanted to pay them.  However, I think if you were to ask an actual slave what he though, I think he might take working for $4.00/hr and being free over working for $20/hr and being a slave.  You seem to not understand the difference between freedom and poverty.  They are quite separate.



  • @tster said:

    Worse than that...  Calling earning $4.00/hr " 'SLAVERY' " is blatant insensitivity and insulting to people that were actually slaves.  Perhaps you don't realize this, but slavery is defined by the ownership of a person, not the amount they make.  A slave could make $4.00/hr if their "owner" wanted to pay them.  However, I think if you were to ask an actual slave what he though, I think he might take working for $4.00/hr and being free over working for $20/hr and being a slave.  You seem to not understand the difference between freedom and poverty.  They are quite separate.


    The real WTF is that the country still has idiotic welfare traps. Yeah, weren't we supposed to have reform to get rid of that, like, ten years ago?!?

    Here's an article I was reading on a proposed $5.15 to $7.25/hr minimum wage increase that was proposed by Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass) - from what I understand, this particular scheme hasn't come to fruition yet, but...

    A family of four with an annual household income of $11,000 (equivalent to what a full-time minimum-wage job yields) could qualify for $33,000 in supplemental welfare benefits. Kennedy’s plan would, assuming no loss of employment, boost that family’s yearly paycheck to $15,000. But, due to the way benefits phase out as incomes rise, that family’s benefit package would decline by $7,000. Thus, total annual income—earned income plus welfare benefits—would actually fall by $3,000. Surely, reducing welfare assistance to half a million working poor families isn’t what the senator from Massachusetts had in mind.
    -- Minimum-Wage Hike Would Hurt Low-Wage Workers, Michael Frank


  • I cry everytime I realize that's my senator.   So the solution is abolishing welfare!



  • @tster said:

    I cry everytime I realize that's my senator.   So the solution is abolishing welfare!

    That's, umm, one way. It's got its downsides. But at least it could be structured without those effective marginal tax rates of more than 100%.



  • Raising minimum wage also causes layoffs. So unemployment goes up. Why? Because the company is having to pay more for the same work, so they let go of any extra people they can afford not to have.



  • @pniko said:

    Know very little about? Where inside their whole article do they even attempt to imply they know ANYTHING about .NET?
     

    Good point but one would assume that by writing an article calling something a piece of poo, the author would have even the most basic knowledge of the subject.  Having  just the information  (read as FUD) that can be gleaned from reading an article summary at /. to me doesn't count as understanding.

     

     

     



  • @unklegwar said:

    er....the article is from 2004. 2 and a half years ago. the real WTF would be if anyone would see this as pertinent or timely

    I'm gonna go dig up some WTFs about the commodore 64. :-)

    Seriously, it's cr*p, tho outdated cr*p. 

    you're right it is more then two years old, but at the time of publication (2004) the .Net framework had been in the wild for 2 years (more if you count the beta days).  Which is more then enough time to get proper information on the subject.  You don't have to like .Net, I was looking for valid reasons not to like it, but his reasons for not liking it didn't seem to be based on the same subject.  To use your C64 analogy, imagine if two years or 20 years after the C64 came out someone posted a rant on the internet calling the C64 a piece of crap because it's quantum computing core required the key from a 84 Porsche to find out how many free quarks there are in a potato chip. 



  • Sounds like the Chewbacca Defense to me.  It's obvious to me that this person seems to think .NET is essentially an application of web services to make your entire desktop into a thin-client, running applications remotely from Microsoft's servers.  And of course, this does not make sense.  Look at him!  He's a wookie!

    I particularly like his reasoning that distributing applications like Office online (every time you run it, nonetheless) would be more cost-effective for Microsoft than pressing CDs and shipping them.  Because the internet is free, of course.


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