Overcome by Disgust
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Are you attempting to suggest by sarcasm that folks coming in on commercial flights might be subject to less scrutiny than folks seeking asylum?
I don't remember doing that.
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@boomzilla said:
Possibly my perception is not accurate in other ways.
Or completely wrong.I've seen a couple of things lately where Belgians have been talking about how terrible they've been at integrating and assimilating Muslims:
Molenbeek broke my heart
A former resident reflects on his struggles with Brussels’ most notorious neighborhood.
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Belgians have been talking about how terrible they've been at integrating and assimilating Muslims:
It's not just the Belgians, and it's not just muslims. It's all the ex-colonial-powers and their ex-colonies.In the UK it's Indians & Pakistanis. France - Algerians, Syrians, Lebanese, Senegalese. Belgi̇um - Congolese, Rwandans, Moroccans. And so on.
Look in your projects. What do you see? Largely speaking, ex slaves, and they've had hundreds of years to integrate. The European empires have only had a couple of generations.
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Look in your projects. What do you see? Largely speaking, ex slaves, and they've had hundreds of years to integrate. The European empires have only had a couple of generations.
We started going backwards in some important ways. Segregation is the hot new thing among progressives. You read about people pissing themselves over the cultural appropriation of yoga and realize that we're trying to do exactly what the Belgians have managed in Molenbeek.
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And this is your somewhat daily reminder that, contrary to popular "feelz & beliefs", no one involved in the attacks were Syrian refugees:
Who were the Paris attackers? Many had links to Syria, crossed officials’ radars | Globalnews.ca
French police and prosecutors, friends and families, and journalists have unveiled details about the men accused of carrying out the attacks in Paris. Altogether, authorities say that three teams participated in the bloody assault.
ABDELHAMID ABAAOUD, 28 - Belgian-born Abaaoud of Moroccan descent
ISMAEL OMAR MOSTEFAI, 29 - "The 29-year-old French man was born south of Paris." - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34825505
SAMY AMIMOUR, 28 - The Frenchman...
AHMAD AL-MOHAMMAD, 25 - Name on a fake passport that has multiple copies floating around. Often mis-attributed as "attacker was Syrian refugee"
BILAL HADFI - Hadfi, a French citizen
BRAHIM ABDESLAM, 30 or 31 a French national - http://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-ignored-signals-on-abdeslam-brothers/
HASNA AITBOULAHCEN, 26 - Born in the Paris suburb of Clichy-la-Garenne, Aitboulahcen moved to the eastern French town of Creutzwald with her parents and four siblings when she was 16. Some years later Aitboulahcen apparently left Creutzwald and settled in the Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois. Her father, who was born in Marrakech, and her older sister moved to Morocco. Two for one mis-information-- she died in the police raids. News originally said she blew herself up but what a surprise that was fucking wrong, as is almost everything reported by the news surrounding these events. She was killed BY a suicide bomb inside the apartment.
SALAH ABDESLAM, 26 - Abdeslam, a Brussels-born man
AHMAD DAHMANI - a 26-year-old Belgian of Moroccan origin
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@Lorne_Kates said:
And this is your somewhat daily reminder that, contrary to popular "feelz & beliefs", no one involved in the attacks were Syrian refugees:
I don't recall anyone here, at least, saying they were. But that's probably also contrary to popular "feelz & beliefs."
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I'd like to think that nobody on this forum is dangerously idiotic, but whatever thread we're calling "THAT thread" usually proves me wrong.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
And this is your somewhat daily reminder that, contrary to popular "feelz & beliefs", no one involved in the attacks were Syrian refugees:
I don't recall anyone here, at least, saying they were. But that's probably also contrary to popular "feelz & beliefs."
You. Literally you were.
Well, at least one of those guys came in through the refugee program. But I know you're too afraid to be called a racist to notice stuff like that.
@Lorne_Kates said:
Wrong (followed by links showing you were wrong that NO ONE was Syrian or came through the Refugee program)
To which you doubled down on your idiocy with:
None of those stories addressed the issue where the guy was fingerprinted when he was processed as a Syrian refugee. Now, if that turns out not to be accurate, that's another story. But I haven't heard anything to refute that.
It isn't "another story". It is THE****strong text story. Because everything you argued came from false and inaccurate reports. That's the entire basis of people's arguments. "Syrians / refugees are bad because X", where X is completely, entirely and utterly false.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
You. Literally you were.
I'll wait for you to quote where I did that.
@Lorne_Kates said:
Because everything you argued came from false and inaccurate reports.
Literally none the links you previously provided contradict what I said. And none of them contradict that the guy was fingerprinted at a refugee processing center (or whatever they're calling them).
http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583
Authorities in France and Greece have said that fingerprints taken from the remains of a suicide bomber outside France’s national sports stadium, the Stade de France, match the prints of a man who entered Europe via the Aegean island of Leros on Oct. 3.
Police on Leros registered the man under the identity in the passport he showed them: Ahmad AlMohammad, 25, from Syria. The same passport was found near the man’s body outside the stadium on Friday night.
That's the story I've been talking about. Literally nothing you posted contradicts that. Have you since found something where those French and Greek officials walked this back?
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That's the story I've been talking about. Literally nothing you posted contradicts that. Have you since found something where those French and Greek officials walked this back?
The passport is a fake. The fingerprints literally do not match any refugee, and no refugee was involved in the attacks. Literally EVERYTHING I posted contradicts you, the headline, and the content of the article.
Did you get thrown on your head too many times last class?
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@Lorne_Kates said:
The passport is a fake.
Something that I've never said wasn't true.
@Lorne_Kates said:
The fingerprints literally do not match any refugee, and no refugee was involved in the attacks.
Well, yeah, the guy was a fake refugee, is the point. Or, like I asked, do you know of some information that contradicts that previous report that they took his fingerprints in Greece? Because you haven't provided anything.
@Lorne_Kates said:
Literally EVERYTHING I posted contradicts you, the headline, and the content of the article.
Is it opposite day today or what?
@Lorne_Kates said:
Did you get thrown on your head too many times last class?
I think I may need some more of that to get down to your level of comprehension on this subject.
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Swedish police arrest man for 'plotting terrorist attack'
Swedish police arrest a man suspected of plotting a "terrorist attack" after a two-day manhunt, as the country steps up security after last week's carnage in Paris.
Swedish police have arrested a man suspected of plotting a "terrorist attack" after a two-day manhunt, as the country steps up security after last week's carnage in Paris.
Iraqi Mutar Muthanna Majid was apprehended during an afternoon raid on a centre for asylum seekers in the north-eastern city of Boliden without incident, according to security services.
Huh...another terrorist using the refugees as cover.
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another
You still don't know the meaning of words, do you?
using the refugees as cover.
I'll treat every "fact" in that article as complete bullshit until proven otherwise, just like every other "breaking news" story that baits to be clicked.
Telling flag: "While no link with the Paris killers was determined"
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Well, yeah, the guy was a fake refugee, is the point. Or, like I asked, do you know of some information that contradicts that previous report that they took his fingerprints in Greece? Because you haven't provided anything.
No, he wasn't. Again, if you would use words " French officials said in a statement that the bomber’s fingerprints match a set taken in Greece in October."
- A PASSPORT was found near the body. Not fingerprints. A passport. A fake passport.
- Greek officials say that a copy of that passport (not the one found on the body-- there are multiple copies)-- was used by a refugee.
There is no connection between #1 and #2. In fact:
'French officials say that they have no proof that the Stade de France suicide bomber – one of three who detonated crude explosive belts at the stadium – was Mr Almuhamed. Intelligence sources in the US told CBS news that there are doubts whether the passport is authentic. The number of the document is incorrect and name does not match the picture, it was claimed."
So a fake passport, possibly forged from an actual refugee's passport, was deliberately planted to make idiots think Syrian refugees are "doin teh bombingz".
If I forge a passport, and put @boomzilla's finger prints on it, then go shoot someone in the head and leave the passport near the body-- are you "connected" to the murder or not?
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The last para of that article is telling.
Ursula von der Leyen, Germany’s Defence Minister, appeared to doubt that Mr Almuhamed, whoever he may be, had taken part in the attack. She said linking the refugee crisis to the threat of terrorism would be wrong. “Terrorism is so well organised that it doesn’t have to risk … the sometimes life-threatening crossings at sea.”
Germany's Defence Minister. Not just "some cunt in the interpubs".
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@Lorne_Kates said:
'French officials say that they have no proof that the Stade de France suicide bomber – one of three who detonated crude explosive belts at the stadium – was Mr Almuhamed. Intelligence sources in the US told CBS news that there are doubts whether the passport is authentic. The number of the document is incorrect and name does not match the picture, it was claimed."
Why the passport found near a Paris suicide bomber is intriguing French investigators
Passport was not on Almuhamed's body - rather it was 'lying nearby, as if meant to be found'
Hmmm...that and the WJS article were both published on November 16th. Here is something dated on the 18th from Reuters:
French authorities have said the fingerprints of the attacker who blew himself up matched those of the man who landed on Leros.
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In Leros, Mohammad was registered as required under European Union rules, with his fingerprints recorded in a European database known as Eurodac. Because his passport looked authentic and there was no police record on him, he was given a permit allowing him to stay in Greece for six months.So, that's less breaking news than your statement about them not having any information. Which is the sort of statement you'd expect before they'd been able to make the fingerprint match. And I provided a less breaking news story corroborating the fingerprint stuff, along with some more details.
@Lorne_Kates said:
You still don't know the meaning of words, do you?
Many of them. I admit that I still get confused sometimes about genders.
@Lorne_Kates said:
If I forge a passport, and put @boomzilla's finger prints on it, then go shoot someone in the head and leave the passport near the body-- are you "connected" to the murder or not?
You have this idea that I'm trying to pin the terrorism on refugees. I don't understand why. Your whole diatribe here seems to hinge on alleging that I claimed that there was a refugee by the name on the passport and that the guy near it was that guy.
Well, forensics seem to say that someone using that passport came in as a refugee and went to Paris.
Germany's Defence Minister. Not just "some cunt in the interpubs".
I see theorizing there, but again, nothing to contradict the forensic evidence of the fingerprints, which neither of you guys have managed to find anything that says otherwise about that.
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Hmmm...that and the WJS article were both published on November 16th. Here is something dated on the 18th from Reuters:
Which says the exact same thing, but in different words. A passport was found. It may or may not have been used by the attacker. It may or may not have been used by a refugee.
There's a description of the route the passport took, which stops and goes cold long before France.
Many of them. I admit that I still get confused sometimes about genders.
There's a thread dedicated to that.
I see theorizing there
That isn't me.
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My disagreement with you on this has been on your insistence, based on a fake passport and fingerprints, that the bomber must have used the refugee route from Syria to Europe; that this was somehow an "easy option", and that we are thus justified in being scared of immigrants, refusing to accept them, etc.
Never mind that the evidence of him passing via that route appears to be purely circumstantial. Aside from that, the whole thing stinks to high heaven.
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If you're going out to blow yourself up, you don't take your passport with you "just in case you need it".
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The guy's remains were so mangled as to be unidentifiable, and yet his passport was untouched. Almost as though it had been dropped on purpose
- This one's a little bit TFH, but it's not inconceivable that someone out to carry out a terrorist attack and aware of the refugee handling process might kill a refugee for their papers, and place their fingerprinted and severed hand(s) at the site in order to further tie the attack to "OMG refugees".
- If you're a terrorist trying to get from Syria to Europe in order to carry out an attack in Paris, rule #1 surely has to be to avoid getting caught. As such, it makes zero sense to go via a dangerous route that's going to get you fingerprinted, have your fake passport scrutinised multiple times, and to then go out of your way to have contact with officialdom (by demanding asylum in Serbia, for example). It would be far easier to get yourself a fake European passport, get yourself dropped in a more mainland-type part of Europe, and simply disappear. You know. Like the other terrorists do.
Anyway, trawling through the French press, it seems we're all a bit behind the times. 1 of the "Stade de France" bombers has been identified, he was French, the other two both had Syrian passports. 2 photos have been pulled from Eurodac (the system that tracks immigrants and asylum demands)
Seems they both came through Leros, with 196 others after their makeshift boat sank, and were travelling as brothers. At least one of the passports was a fake, the identity belonging to a Syrian soldier killed several months ago.
But it still doesn't make sense
if you're just trying to be a terrorist, as opposed to also pushing blame onto refugees. There's far quieter and more secure ways to get into Europe.
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Also, the one on the right doesn't look very happy. Maybe he was a closeted trans. Or being forced to use Discourse.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
Which says the exact same thing, but in different words. A passport was found. It may or may not have been used by the attacker. It may or may not have been used by a refugee.
Yes. Except they also mentioned the fingerprint evidence.
@Lorne_Kates said:
There's a description of the route the passport took, which stops and goes cold long before France.
Uh huh. More interesting than the passport, to me at least, is the guy who participated in the attacks and got fingerprinted as a refugee. But you're right, it's much more important that the document be legit and matches his name and stuff.
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Maybe he was a closeted trans.
I'm sure it'll work out if any of the 72 virgins he gets are trans
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My disagreement with you on this has been on your insistence, based on a fake passport and fingerprints, that the bomber must have used the refugee route from Syria to Europe; that this was somehow an "easy option",
Um...so, he was processed as a refugee by the Greeks. What's wrong about my assertion that he did what the evidence says that he did? I don't know about all of his options, but he definitely did what he did. We now know of at least one other ne'er-do-well who is using refugees for cover. Why are you insisting that they don't or won't do it in the face of them actually, y'know...doing just that?
...and that we are thus justified in being scared of immigrants, refusing to accept them, etc.
I've said that we'd be idiots not to consider that and not to be afraid of it at all. You supplied the opinion about refusing to accept them yourself.
If you're going out to blow yourself up, you don't take your passport with you "just in case you need it".
The guy's remains were so mangled as to be unidentifiable, and yet his passport was untouched. Almost as though it had been dropped on purposeYeah, there are weird things there that don't make sense, but these guys are crazy from my POV. And I'd rather take the evidence as it exists than ignore some of it because it doesn't fit my preconceived thoughts.
If you're a terrorist trying to get from Syria to Europe in order to carry out an attack in Paris, rule #1 surely has to be to avoid getting caught. As such, it makes zero sense to go via a dangerous route that's going to get you fingerprinted, have your fake passport scrutinised multiple times, and to then go out of your way to have contact with officialdom (by demanding asylum in Serbia, for example). It would be far easier to get yourself a fake European passport, get yourself dropped in a more mainland-type part of Europe, and simply disappear. You know. Like the other terrorists do.
Except that he did exactly that and didn't get caught. For guys in Syria (i.e., ISIS) I'll bet it's at least as easy to get a fake Syrian passport as a fake European passport. Though I wouldn't doubt for a minute that they're doing both.
Anyway, trawling through the French press, it seems we're all a bit behind the times. 1 of the "Stade de France" bombers has been identified, he was French, the other two both had Syrian passports. 2 photos have been pulled from Eurodac (the system that tracks immigrants and asylum demands)
Well, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along...that they went through refugee processing.
But it still doesn't make sense if you're just trying to be a terrorist, as opposed to also pushing blame onto refugees. There's far quieter and more secure ways to get into Europe.
But you would say basically the same thing, I suspect, about believing the stuff that's written in the Koran. And I'm pretty sure they'd disagree with you about that, too.
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Why are you insisting that they don't or won't do it in the face of them actually, y'know...doing just that?
I'm not. As you're well aware, by the fact you cut the end off my sentence.
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Actually, I think it's more that a lot of people see that as a reasonable vetting criterion to keep out guys like the guy who snuck in through Greece.
You supplied the opinion about refusing to accept them yourself.
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@boomzilla said:
Why are you insisting that they don't or won't do it in the face of them actually, y'know...doing just that?
I'm not. As you're well aware, by the fact you cut the end off my sentence.OK, sorry, I may have confused some of what you said with what @Lorne_Kates was saying. Also, there was a lot in that sentence. And the only part of the refugee route that I insisted he used was getting through the processing. I had no idea how they got there to begin with, though I guess that part of the story has come out.
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@boomzilla said:
Actually, I think it's more that a lot of people see that as a reasonable vetting criterion to keep out guys like the guy who snuck in through Greece.
You supplied the opinion about refusing to accept them yourself.
Yes, exactly! That pretty much confirms that you were wrong that I was trying to say we shouldn't accept them for this reason. I suspect even you agree with that, even if you decide the trade off is worth it. But maybe you actually do think borders should just be totally open and countries shouldn't be able to control who comes and goes.
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My POV is this.
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There's no more that could have been done in this case without increasing the suffering of a large number of genuine refugees. Their passports were good enough fakes to pass inspection. Guys have obviously managed to avoid being fingerprinted or DNA tested, or we'd know who they are by now.
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In the current situation, there is no way to close the borders without literally putting up machine gun posts. We're not talking about the US, who might deign to take a few hundred refugees shipped over on jets, we're talking about thousands of desperate people per day coming over very small stretches of water. You would really have to gun them down on the beaches. To sink their boats and let them drown.
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I strongly suspect they
(the two bombers) took this route deliberately, and not just as a way of getting (probably back) into Europe. I see this as a very deliberate way of casting suspicion on what is an unstoppable tide of refugees. "Domestic" terrorists (and, so far, there's no reason to suspect any of the suspects were anything other than domestic) can, and do, get in and out of Europe unseen, via some very permeable exterior borders.
So yeah. Hundreds of people (including a couple of friends of mine) were killed and wounded in Paris on the 13th. But thousands of refugees have perished in the Med this year, and continue to do so. Those who survive the crossing are in an enormously precarious situation. We need to help them, not fear them.
Fuck the terrorist toerags. Be human.
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OK, FTR, I think you gotta let the refugees in, but you also gotta think about WTF to do with them. Temporary? Permanent? Also, how do you pick out the assholes who use it to sneak in? That shit is serious.
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Also, how do you pick out the assholes who use it to sneak in? That shit is serious
I dunno. How do you do that with natural born citizens?
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I dunno. How do you do that with natural born citizens?
If science finds a cheap way to identify psychopaths with a brainscan, would it be ok to kill 'em all before they do their stuff? I think it would solve a lot of problems.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I dunno. How do you do that with natural born citizens?
If science finds a cheap way to identify psychopaths with a brainscan, would it be ok to kill 'em all before they do their stuff? I think it would solve a lot of problems.
So the answer is "We can't, and we don't, because civilized societies are innocent until proven guilty". Gotcha.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
@boomzilla said:
Also, how do you pick out the assholes who use it to sneak in? That shit is serious
I dunno. How do you do that with natural born citizens?
Heh. That's so stupid it's funny.
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Look in your projects. What do you see? Largely speaking, ex slaves, and they've had hundreds of years to integrate. The European empires have only had a couple of generations.
You're right about the people from ex-colonies, but it's not like there had been much integration of ex slaves going on in the US before the 1960s. Jim Crow laws and all that.
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Heh. That's so stupid it's funny.
What, your comment? So far, all of the identified Paris attackers were natural born citizens. You think
@boomzilla said:That shit is serious
…which is what ISIS want you to think. It's not serious, it's a fucking sideshow. The resources you're using up to try and make sure no "assholes" are sneaking in through a dangerous and illogical route are resources you're not using to track and catch the people who are already here (for whatever value of "here" you choose to use) and dangerous. They're resources you're not using trying to shut the safe and logical routes that "assholes" might use to get in.Jim Crow laws and all that.
Tru dat.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-20/swedish-police-arrest-man-for-plotting-terrorist-attack/6959052
Swedish police have arrested a man suspected of plotting a "terrorist attack" after a two-day manhunt, as the country steps up security after last week's carnage in Paris.
Iraqi Mutar Muthanna Majid was apprehended during an afternoon raid on a centre for asylum seekers in the north-eastern city of Boliden without incident, according to security services.
Surprise, surprise!Sweden’s security service had some explaining to do on Sunday after police released a 22-year-old 'suspected terrorist' seized on Thursday night following a national security alert. “He is no longer suspected of any crime,” Sweden's national prosecutor's office said in a press release. [...] On Sunday, Swedish commentators were lambasting Säpo for what looks likely to go down as one of the most embarrassing false alarms in its history.
Huh...another terrorist using the refugees as cover.
Seems like "innocent until proven guilty" is just some bullshit for liberal bleeding-hearts when it comes to Teh Terraaargh!Edit:
'd by @Lorne_Kates. For sufficiently small values of
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What, your comment? So far, all of the identified Paris attackers were natural born citizens.
Some of whom had been to Syria and snuck back in via the refugee processing. Fuck, man, how many times have I said that?
Seems like "innocent until proven guilty" is just some bullshit for liberal bleeding-hearts when it comes to Teh Terraaargh!
Yeah, about as much as you want another attack like Paris.
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Some of whom had been to Syria and snuck back in via the refugee processing.
So fucking what? Some of them came to Europe on boats. Let's ban fucking boats, why don't we.
Yeah, about as much as you want another attack like Paris.
You're just giving up on such niceties like "reasonable discussion" in favor of "EVERYBODY WHO DOESN'T THINK LIKE ME IS A TERRORIST WAAAARGARBLARG", aren't you?
Sure, let's give up this whole "human rights", "fair trial", "innocent until proven guilty" bullshit and I dunno, just shoot them outright. I mean, how do you know they're not terrorists?
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You're just giving up on such niceties like "reasonable discussion" in favor of "EVERYBODY WHO DOESN'T THINK LIKE ME IS A TERRORIST WAAAARGARBLARG", aren't you?
Yes, in cases where that was already applied to me.
So fucking what? Some of them came to Europe on boats. Let's ban fucking boats, why don't we.
What the hell? Look...there's a situation where people are coming in and there's not a lot of ability to check them to make sure they are who they say they are. That's what's different about the refugee thing. The nature of the situation makes that pretty much required. Which is just the sort of thing that someone who wants to get in without their actual identity being revealed, since they're probably on a watch list or something.
You guys are an awesome example of the perfect being the enemy of the good and at the same time apparently turning off your brains for fear of being perceived as racist.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I dunno. How do you do that with natural born citizens?
And how do we do with the president?
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What the hell? Look...there's a situation where people are coming in and there's not a lot of ability to check them to make sure they are who they say they are.
What would knowing that Kara Ben Nemsi from Aleppo is actually Kara Ben Nemsi from Aleppo gain you?*That's* what's different about the refugee thing. The nature of the situation makes that pretty much required. Which is just the sort of thing that someone who wants to get in without their actual identity being revealed, since they're probably on a watch list or something.
Doesn't help you a whole lot either if your terrorists are a) homegrown and b) known to the secret service but still not being watched closely enough, because when farting in the wrong place gets you on a terror watch list (there's over a million people on the US no-fly list, so that must be roughly the necessary level of suspect activity) there are just too many people on it to watch.Kinda related, from a German magazine, here is a statistic of terror victims by year (orange: in France)
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What would knowing that Kara Ben Nemsi from Aleppo is actually Kara Ben Nemsi from Aleppo gain you?
Then you know he (or she?) isn't one of your home grown jihadis sneaking back into the country.
Doesn't help you a whole lot either if your terrorists are a) homegrown and b) known to the secret service but still not being watched closely enough
Yes. This is always going to be a problem.
Kinda related, from a German magazine, here is a statistic of terror victims by year (orange: in France)
Getting rid of the Evil Empire was a good thing for them, based on that chart.
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Which is just the sort of thing that someone who wants to get in without their actual identity being revealed, since they're probably on a watch list or something.
You really think it's that much of a problem for IS terrorists to get a fake passport and change their look a bit? Especially since, as the Paris attacks taught us, they don't really need to sneak into Europe since they already have people here?
And you really think it's justifable to screw over thousands of legitimate people just because one guy snuck in to show that he can?
You guys are an awesome example of the perfect being the enemy of the good and at the same time apparently turning off your brains for fear of being perceived as racist.
No, I just don't think that because there's some shit brewing around the Middle East, we should panic, give up on such basic values of civilization as "people are individuals first and their race/ethnicity/orientation/religion second" and "an individual is innocent until proven guilty" and go back a hundred or so years.
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You really think it's that much of a problem for IS terrorists to get a fake passport and change their look a bit?
I don't know. I assume it's possible. I also know that they've used the refugee route, and that's a cause for concern. Are you ignoring that it actually happened?
And you really think it's justifable to screw over thousands of legitimate people just because one guy snuck in to show that he can?
I think you think I think that. Even after I explicitly said the opposite.
No, I just don't think that because there's some shit brewing around the Middle East, we should panic, give up on such basic values of civilization as "people are individuals first and their race/ethnicity/orientation/religion second" and "an individual is innocent until proven guilty" and go back a hundred or so years.
But it's OK to scream "RAAAAACIST" at people who are interested in considering the downsides? We're either with you or against you, eh?
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Getting rid of the Evil Empire was a good thing for them, based on that chart.
You don't read german, do you?
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All this terrorism shit is a big overreaction. The chance of suffering a terrorist attack is very tiny.
Its not an extinction event like a change in our global temperature.
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@boomzilla said:
Getting rid of the Evil Empire was a good thing for them, based on that chart.
You don't read german, do you?No. I was basing that off of my knowledge of the Soviets sponsoring lots of terrorist activities, both in Europe and in the Middle East, plus the drop off after they went away.
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Dunno much about the rest, but the Provisional IRA got more arms and money from America than the Soviets.
The Paris terrorist attacks, the connection to Belgium and what comes next
