Fuck you Microsoft and your extremely narrow world-view



  • And now, which .NET Framework Multi-Target...something is which?

    Also, fuck your translated error messages.


  • area_can

    Is that the actual control panel or is that the Metro (tm) one?



  • ...hang on...


  • Dupa

    Go to control panel and then to remove programs. Problem solved.



  • Okay, at this point, I don't even have words for them. In Windows 10 (or 8?), there's this new "Add and Remove Programs" thing (yay, we're back in XP times!), which replaces the old "Programs and Functions". Or so I thought - turns out they're both there, it's just that the former is accessible from Start menu after writing just "prog", and the latter needs its name spelled in full (literally).

    And I've just found out that "Applications and Functions" (not to be confused with "Programs and Functions") is alias for "Add and Remove Programs".

    WHY. WHY HAVE THREE PLACES TO GO WHEN YOU WANT TO UNINSTALL SOMETHING. WHY EVEN BOTHER MAKING NEW ONE IF OLD ONE IS STILL THEREEEEE



  • @bb36e said:

    Is that the actual control panel

    Yes.

    @bb36e said:

    or is that the Metro (tm) one

    Also yes.


  • area_deu

    Can you still make a magic folder like in Win7 that lists all the things in the control panel?



  • It's literally the first item when you right click on the start button:

    The new one includes apps installed from the store, I think.



  • @LB_ said:

    right click on the start button

    Discoverability yay!

    @LB_ said:

    The new one includes apps installed from the store, I think.

    It has all the same entries as the old one.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Gaska said:

    Discoverability yay!

    If you are spoiled from Discourse and its "discoverable" keyboard shortcuts... you can also press Ctrl + X for the same effect.

    Filed Under: Why is that menu black in the new version? Is Microsoft bikeshedding now?



  • @Kuro said:

    Why is that menu black in the new version? Is Microsoft bikeshedding now?

    The context menu on the Start menu has already changed to black. Not really sure why it is taking so long to harmonize all this. Apparently the update has updated some, but not all, of the control panel icons.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Maybe the colors are some kind of heatcolddark map

    Filed Under: Discourse will be Windows in 9 years! Jeff has planned it all out!



  • @Kuro said:

    If you are spoiled from Discourse and its "discoverable" keyboard shortcuts...

    I'm not spoiled by Discourse. I'm spoiled by my keyboard having a key with a drawing identical to the drawing I see on screen, over Start button. Which has been with me for the most of my life (the key, not the keyboard or the drawing).

    @Kuro said:

    you can also press Ctrl + X for the same effect.

    Where and when and what effect? Was something supposed to happen when I press it when taskbar or desktop has focus? Because it didn't.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I am spoiled from being unable to think apparently.
    What I meant was WinKey + X
    That opens the same menu right clicking on the start button does.

    Filed Under: Sorry



  • Yeah, that WinX thing is even less discoverable than right-click. Especially that hitting just Win is much easier, and is much more useful.


  • area_can

    But is it more discoverable than Linux? @blake



  • @bb36e said:

    @blake

    Such a half-assed mention. I wonder what will be his reaction when he sees it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    the only reason I know of it is because old versions of windows had some kind of laptop-settings-thing under that combination. I think it still exists but I can't find it anymore.
    I believe it changed on Win 8 when the removed the Windows-icon for 0.1 versions (so you can't rightclick that).

    I kinda like the options this menu gives you, though. Fastest way to get an admin console up if you need it.
    And I also use it to uninstall things (as was the reason this menu was mentioned here, afair).
    For everything else Winkey + typing is still the fastest thing :smiley:

    Filed Under: YWMD


  • area_can

    I didn't wanna summon it, but I didn't know we had a blake!



  • @Kuro said:

    the only reason I know of it is because old versions of windows had some kind of laptop-settings-thing under that combination. I think it still exists but I can't find it anymore.

    Are you talking about Mobility Center (or whatever it's called in English - on my computer, it's "Centrum Mobilności w systemie Windows")? I always launched it from Start menu.



  • Yeah, WinKey + X used to be the mobility center in Windows 7 and earlier. I only found out it existed a few weeks before Win10 came out.

    As for discoverability, you mean you don't right click stuff first? I always try right click before left click to see what my options are.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    yeah, that thing. I never even attempted to find it in the start menu. I know I stumbled upon it by accident and it proved to be handy whenever my graphics driver shit itself so hard that it would refuse to dim the display (I would refuse to restart, though because ain't nobody got time for that).

    Apparently I haven't used it in ages but searching for it brings (fond?) memories. Meaning they haven't updated the UI of that mobility center at all.

    Filed Under: Gotta make it black in the next Windows version!



  • @LB_ said:

    As for discoverability, you mean you don't right click stuff first? I always try right click before left click to see what my options are.

    I do right-click most of stuff, but buttons I do not. Might be because no other button ever created has context menu.



  • Every version of Windows even back to XP lets you right click on the start button. To be honest I'm not sure why it has 'button' in its name - it's not a button at all.



  • It's clickable. It has "up" and "down" graphics. There is one action bound to button press, and it requires full click procedure. It fits all the criteria for being a button.

    Or am I wrong? Am I missing something?



  • @Gaska said:

    WHY. WHY HAVE THREE PLACES TO GO WHEN YOU WANT TO UNINSTALL SOMETHING. WHY EVEN BOTHER MAKING NEW ONE IF OLD ONE IS STILL THEREEEEE

    Object orientation is terribly hard.

       class ProgramOrFunction
       {
           public void uninstall();
           public void repair();
       }
    

  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Just checked on Win7 and I am unsure why the fuck you would ever right click on it.

    "Properties" is the same shit you get if you right click and hit properties anywhere on the unused section of the taskbar.

    "Open Windows Explorer" is a dupe of the default #1 pin - Explorer (which I have never ever ever seen anyone remove)

    So if anyone discovered this in Win7, they probably filed it as useless knowledge and mentally mapped "right click on start button" to "does nothing". Presumably it is the same in XP.

    Therefore it would have to be rediscovered in 8/8.1/10, which is less likely than being discovered in the first place.

    (Side note: This machine is somewhat of a timepod, hence Firefucks still being in slot 2. Winamp still whips the llama's ass, however.)



  • When I think of "button" I think of the stylized ones like "OK" or "Yes" or "Retry". The start button looks nothing like a button. Or do you call every clickable thing a button? Are files buttons? Are hyperlinks buttons? Are tray icons buttons?

    EDIT: @Weng I only said it existed, not that it was useful before Win10.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    It clearly used to be a button. The classic 9x/NT interfaces, and IIRC XP met all the traditional skeudomorphic button criteria and was styled very similarly to a vanilla button. Microsoft CALLED IT a button.

    The nomenclature (and the mental inertia) has stuck. It no longer quacks like a duck but performs the same general functions. Therefore, either it is a duck that's been braindamaged or is actually a goose who has killed the duck and assumed its identity.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Windows 95. Buttons and Start Button.

    CLEARLY A FUCKING BUTTON.



  • I guess you'll just have to use one of those high-quality, uh... where the fuck are you from? Lithuania? One of those high-quality Lithuanian OSes instead of Windows.

    But yeah, this is obviously Microsoft's fault. Not your government, which was sleeping-through the 70s and 80s computer revolution, and basically ceded this industry to the US without even a tiny fight.



  • @LB_ said:

    When I think of "button" I think of the stylized ones like "OK" or "Yes" or "Retry". The start button looks nothing like a button.

    It did on Windows 7 with classic theme. Was it a button then? Why/why not? If it was, why does changing its appearance without altering functionality at all suddenly makes it non-button?

    Also - is Office Ribbon main menu activator a button or not?



  • @LB_ said:

    Or do you call every clickable thing a button? Are files buttons? Are hyperlinks buttons? Are tray icons buttons?

    None of these meet all the criteria I listed earlier. Maybe except hyperlinks, but it's just because I didn't think I'd need to spell it out that a button has to have a border.



  • @Weng said:

    It clearly used to be a button. The classic 9x/NT interfaces, and IIRC XP met all the traditional skeudomorphic button criteria and was styled very similarly to a vanilla button. Microsoft CALLED IT a button.

    The nomenclature (and the mental inertia) has stuck. It no longer quacks like a duck but performs the same general functions. Therefore, either it is a duck that's been braindamaged or is actually a goose who has killed the duck and assumed its identity.


    It's obviously a transgender button, you insensitive clod.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I guess you'll just have to use one of those high-quality, uh... where the fuck are you from? Lithuania? One of those high-quality Lithuanian OSes instead of Windows.

    One thing's for sure: I'd have orders of magnitude less problems with this Lithuanian OS than with Windows.

    @blakeyrat said:

    But yeah, this is obviously Microsoft's fault.

    Squeezing all the text into quarter of available space, truncating useful information if it didn't fit? Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure that' Microsoft's fault.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Not your government, which was sleeping-through the 70s and 80s computer revolution, and basically ceded this industry to the US without even a tiny fight.

    Are you sure you're in the right topic? Because it doesn't look like it.



  • @LB_ said:

    Every version of Windows even back to XP lets you right click on the start button.

    ISTR being able to right-click the Start button in Windows 9X and selecting Move or Close.

    I may be mis-remembering. I know you could summon the context menu with <nobr>Alt+-</nobr> anyway.



  • Yeah, they sure screwed it up. It's the only "button" in the entire OS that stays pressed while a menu opens from it. Point is, it wasn't until this thread that I even realized it had the word 'button' in its name - I've never considered it a button because it doesn't behave like one at all. Clearly I'm in the minority though...



  • @LB_ said:

    I've never considered it a button because it doesn't behave like one at all.

    You are TRWTF.



  • No button I have ever used stays pressed while popping up a menu for me to click within.



  • @Weng said:

    Winamp still whips the llama's ass, however.

    Feh. Once you go Foobar, you never go back.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    But yeah, this is obviously Microsoft's fault. Not your government, which was sleeping-through the 70s and 80s computer revolution, and basically ceded this industry to the US without even a tiny fight.

    Yuo are rueld by Microesofts!



  • You're right about that, I rue Microsoft all the time.


  • Dupa

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    Feh. Once you go Foobar, you never go back.

    QFT

    Unless you go Spotify, of course.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @LB_ said:

    I always try right click before left click to see what my options are.

    Filthy casual. I always shift + right click to get the extra options



  • @Gaska said:

    Squeezing all the text into quarter of available space, truncating useful information if it didn't fit? Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure that' Microsoft's fault.

    I remember reading a review of Windows 95, back when that was new, in which the author complained that it was hard to tell which taskbar button launched which MS Office application if he had several open, because all of the buttons would read “Microso…” and only the tiny icon would be different. Plus ça change.



  • @Gaska said:

    WHY EVEN BOTHER MAKING NEW ONE IF OLD ONE IS STILL THEREEEEE

    Because the old one doesn't look enough like something that belongs on a phone.



  • @LB_ said:

    No button I have ever used stays pressed while popping up a menu for me to click within.

    This single thing isn't enough to say "it doesn't behave like one at all". The latter implies that it doesn't, well, behave at all like a button. For example, it's typical for buttons in fancy custom GUIs (like, every game ever created) to highlight themselves on hover. Also, this Windows 10 Start menu thingy has a different look for each of these: nothing, hover, click. Also, if I press mouse button down, move it away, and release it there, nothing happens. It has hell lot of similar behavior with a button whether you like it or not.

    Not to mention that there are actually buttons that stay down after pressing. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I know I've encountered such things in quite a few programs.



  • @Gurth said:

    I remember reading a review of Windows 95, back when that was new, in which the author complained that it was hard to tell which taskbar button launched which MS Office application if he had several open, because all of the buttons would read “Microso…” and only the tiny icon would be different. Plus ça change.

    Back in 98 times, and then in XP times (I skipped everything in between), I was too annoyed to no end by it. Also, I hated the grouping thing. But I'm strangely okay with Windows Vista icon-only taskbar. Might it be because it only takes hover instead of click? And that you see accurate miniatures of the full windows so you can easily distinguish between particular instances even in the lack of text labels?

    Also, it's not quite the same as my problem. In OP, I wanted to compare several entries to find out what's the difference between them. It doesn't ever happen when using taskbar - you rarely ever compare because usually you know what is what, but even if it's not immediately obvious, you already know what the difference between any two windows is.


  • area_deu

    @Gaska said:

    Windows Vista icon-only taskbar.

    Which version of Vista did you use?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Gaska said:

    Not to mention that there are actually buttons that stay down after pressing. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I know I've encountered such things in quite a few programs.

    @Weng said:

    bi and _ buttons in, certinaly older versions of, Word.


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