I was Doing It Wrong™ and Visual Studio 2015 crashed

More like that all the Vim users already have their .vimrcs so fine-tuned that no one cares about defaults anymore, since they don't affect them. The rest got used to them. So it's not a case of backwards compatibility as much as FOSStards being assholes to humanity.

fbmac

@Gaska said:

Just like everything else that can run on X server.

I don't have a X server at work, and I am not allowed to install anything there.

@Gaska said:

But much more keypresses. And more brain power wasted on handling editor.

It doesn't match my experience with it.

@Gaska said:

Not a technical reason.

That device is very limited, so there isn't much options

@Gaska said:

But it's more keystrokes on average.

Again, it doesn't match my experience with it

@Gaska said:

But it crashes less often.

I will take your word for it because seting it up would be work

@Gaska said:

Which is still sub-second.

It takes at lest 3 seconds to open gvim in my work notebook. There is a good chance it's related to all that anti-viruses and security stuff there is running there. But notepad++ opens instantly.

@Gaska said:

Intermediate and late learning curve is just as steep as initial.

That could be said for eclipse too. But it doesn't matter at my job because I can't set up eclipse to use over ssh. And our company policies forbids me to install linux locally, so I have to use a remote computer for compiling, and it wouldn't be practical to be transferring source code around for compiling.

@Gaska said:

Is re-learning the same things over and over again such a nice experience to you? Because it's not to me.

I only do it when I'm in the mood for it, I can survive with the basic commands.

Now I think TRWTF is the company policies. But whatever, VIM helps to mitigate it.

Gąska

@fbmac said:

I don't have a X server at work, and I am not allowed to install anything there.

Cue blakeyrant about what a big failure you must be to not have admin rights on your workstation.

@fbmac said:

It doesn't match my experience with it.

Have you ever had to think what to press to highlight third word fifteen lines above cursor? I didn't, because moving mouse and clicking requires zero thinking ahead. Also, it would be faster than any key combo you might come up with in Vim.

@fbmac said:

Again, it doesn't match my experience with it

You're lying here. In GUI editor, about 95-99% of all keystrokes are text input, the rest being keyboard shortcuts for code completion, copying and pasting (exact percentage varies from person to person). In vim, many keystrokes are spent on tasks that in GUI editor are usually performed by mouse, such as navigation, text selection and file browsing. It's literally impossible for the total number of keystrokes over extended period of time (say, a year - to get rid of statistical noise) to be lower in vim than in GUI when the usage patterns are similar.

@fbmac said:

It takes at lest 3 seconds to open gvim in my work notebook.

Something is very, very wrong with your notebook. It's like drimking from broken glass and conclude that mugs are better because they don't cut your lips.
.
@fbmac said:

That could be said for eclipse too.

Yes, but its significantly lower than vim's on every stage.

@fbmac said:

And our company policies forbids me to install linux locally, so I have to use a remote computer for compiling, and it wouldn't be practical to be transferring source code around for compiling.

Transferring code around for compiling is a standard practice around here, and it works great. I'm sure there exists some Windows counterpart of rsync.

@fbmac said:

I only do it when I'm in the mood for it

The fact you're ever in such mood is

already.

fbmac

@Gaska said:

Have you ever had to think what to press to highlight third word fifteen lines above cursor? I didn't, because moving mouse and clicking requires zero thinking ahead. Also, it would be faster than any key combo you might come up with in Vim.

I don't like using too much mouse movements while doing stuff. I've gone as far as drawing some fluxograms with VIM and graphviz (I know it's a WTF, but I don't do much diagramming anyway, last time I used something saner).

@Gaska said:

Transferring code around for compiling is a standard practice around here, and it works great. I'm sure there exists some Windows counterpart of rsync.

The most practical tool I have at my disposal is a GUI tool, and for that I would need for me to do much more mouse movements and keystrokes than my current setup.

@Gaska said:

Cue blakeyrant about what a big failure you must be to not have admin rights on your workstation.

I do agree with @blakeyrat on this one, but this decision is out of my hands. Puting an @ there because I know he loves notifications.

@Gaska said:

You're lying here. In GUI editor, about 95-99% of all keystrokes are text input, the rest being keyboard shortcuts for code completion, copying and pasting (exact percentage varies from person to person).

Don't call me a lier (at least when I'm not trolling). As I said above, I avoid mouse movements.

dse

@fbmac said:

Don't call me a lier (at least when I'm not trolling)

A liar then? Or maybe a layer or lawyer but that is same as liar.

Gąska

@fbmac said:

I don't like using too much mouse movements while doing stuff.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that vim is a much bigger mental burden than GUI.

@fbmac said:

The most practical tool I have at my disposal is a GUI tool

If you mean what I think you mean, then it's not practical at all and you should google a little further.

@fbmac said:

I do agree with @blakeyrat on this one, but this decision is out of my hands.

You're still a loser in his eyes.

@fbmac said:

Don't call me a lier (at least when I'm not trolling).

Don't lie then!

@fbmac said:

As I said above, I avoid mouse movements.

Brotip: if you refuse to use mouse in GUI application, you're gonna have a bad time.

fbmac

@Gaska said:

If you mean what I think you mean, then it's not practical at all and you should google a little further.

Googling, then begging the powers that be to let me install it and repeat this process for every tool I find. Fuck it, I will am already frustrated just thinking about that.

@Gaska said:

You're still a loser in his eyes.

This division of the world between winners and losers is pretty confusing. I only see it in american movies and we don't even have a translation that makes any sense for it. How do I measure my score, and how many points do I need to be a winner?

If he hates Discourse gamification, would he approve this sort of life gamification?

@Gaska said:

Don't lie then!

I was totally talking about a belgium city called Lier, I never post typos in a web forum.

@Gaska said:

Brotip: if you refuse to use mouse in GUI application, you're gonna have a bad time.

So to avoid mouse movements and wrist pain, use a CLI editor. That's what I do.

Gąska

@fbmac said:

Googling, then begging the powers that be to let me install it

Do they run spyware on your machine? How long does it take on average from downloading a program to getting ordered to uninstall it? How long would it be if you kept your mouthhole shut about it? Is there any chance of getting Virtualbox approved?

@fbmac said:

This division of the world between winners and losers is pretty confusing.

No one is dividing anything. A loser doesn't always mean someone who lost the game. <BTW, you just lost The Game.> It can be used as a generic insult too.

@fbmac said:

So to avoid mouse movements and wrist pain, use a CLI editor. That's what I do.

OK, so next time you claim that CLI allows for less key presses, please specify that you are comparing a proper use of a properly configured vim against an absolutely wrong workflow in GUI editor that no human being actually uses it like that.

fbmac

@Gaska said:

Do they run spyware on your machine?

Probably

@Gaska said:

How long does it take on average from downloading a program to getting ordered to uninstall it?

That depends

@Gaska said:

Is there any chance of getting Virtualbox approved?

The hell will freeze over before they let me install virtualbox there.

@Gaska said:

OK, so next time you claim that CLI allows for less key presses, please specify that you are comparing a proper use of a properly configured vim against an absolutely wrong workflow in GUI editor that no human being actually uses it like that.

You're saying I'm doing it wrong?

Gąska

@fbmac said:

You're saying I'm doing it wrong?

If you minimize the use of mouse in Eclipse and do as much as possible with keyboard then yes, you're

.

dkf

@PWolff said:

COPY CON IO.SYS

Amateur.

COPY CON FDISK.COM

asdf

@Gaska said:

If you minimize the use of mouse in Eclipse and do as much as possible with keyboard then yes, you're .

I haven't used eclipse in a while, but if its keyboard shortcuts are similar to IntelliJ's and if it has the same keyboard navigation capabilities, then not using the mouse is actually reasonable. I know I rarely touch my mouse when I'm in my IDE.

Anyone who claims that vim is better than IDEs because x is faster hasn't spent enough time with his IDE to figure out how to do x properly. Hint: It's going to be more discoverable than the same feature in vim.

dkf

@asdf said:

I haven't used eclipse in a while, but if its keyboard shortcuts are similar to IntelliJ's and if it has the same keyboard navigation capabilities, then not using the mouse is actually reasonable. I know I rarely touch my mouse when I'm in my IDE.

IME, the input speed is not normally the limiting factor. The time to think exactly what to do and what action to take next, that's what is the bottleneck (and likely to remain so).

PleegWat

@Gaska said:

OK, so next time you claim that CLI allows for less key presses, please specify that you are comparing a proper use of a properly configured vim against an absolutely wrong workflow in GUI editor that no human being actually uses it like that.

Properly configure your vim with set mouse=a, and you can mouse in vim to your heart's content. It's even on by default in gvim!

Gąska

Yep, and it throws you into visual mode with every click.

PleegWat

ENOREPRO. I only get visual mode if I drag.

Gąska

Well, then defaults you've overridden must be really insane, or I misremember something and regular click does something even more stupid or useless.

Did I mention how much I hate when text cursor moves along with me mouse-scrolling the file?