Salt: Not just for passwords



  • @anotherusername said:

    Either we have vastly differing opinions about salt, or they salt fries really heavily in the Five Guys restaurants around where you live

    Both.

    The more salt you have, the more used to it you get, and the more you need to get the "flavor" of salt. Go off salt for, like, a week, and your tastebuds reset. Eating the fries will be like that blowjob scene from Showgirls, except instead of being in a swimming pool, it's in the Dead Sea. And the guy you're blowing just ate a pound of salt, and rimmed his cock with salt like a margarita glass. Also, his penis is made of salt.

    The .com site lists a Regular fries as having 962mg of sodium. The UK also lists 962. I can only assume the Canada one is at least that.

    That's almost my entire daily intake of sodium. And that isn't counting what you'll get from the burger (456), ketchup (204), pickles (265). You could probably easily hit 2000mg--- 2g-- nearly an entire teaspoon of salt. For comparison, one of those little packets of salt you can get? 200mg. So, like, 10 of those.

    Given the AHA recommends a max of 1500mg PER DAY... exceeding the daily allowance in a single meal isn't-- well-- good to do too often.



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    1500mg

    So 1.5g?

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Oh, also, you may want to order "lite salt".

    We get "LoSalt" in the UK which is a low sodium alternative. Although that's simply because ~67% of the sodium is replaced with potassium.



    Filed under: I'll replace the fat in KFC with cyanide and produce a low fat option and as a bonus reduce the overweight popualtion


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Given the AHA recommends a max of 1500mg PER DAY... exceeding the daily allowance in a single meal isn't-- well-- good to do too often.

    Do you have functional kidneys and no high blood pressure? Eat as much salt as you find tasty then. Those allowances are miniscule.


  • sockdevs

    @Polygeekery said:

    Do you have functional kidneys and no high blood pressure?

    AND have a sufficiently high fluid intake.

    that bit's important too. ;-)


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    If you get thirsty, drink something.

    I thought that would go without saying. I did not know I was advocating for dehydration.


  • sockdevs

    @Polygeekery said:

    I thought that would go without saying.

    We clearly have different oppinions on the average brain power avaolable to people....

    :-P



  • @Polygeekery said:

    If you get thirsty, drink somethingwater.

    I thought that would go without saying. I did not know I was advocating for dehydration.

    Fixed. And that should go for when you get hungry, too. If you feel hungry, drink some water. If you still feel hungry a short while later, then eat something.

    Drink other things if you want, but not because you're thirsty. Pretty much everything else liquid that you can put in your body has sugar, salt, caffeine, alcohol, etc. and should be used in proportion to your need for those things, not to try to quench thirst. (Your need for sugar water is typically pretty low, if you're an average person. Salt can be necessary if you've been sweating a lot. Caffeine and alcohol fall in the "don't really need but don't really hurt anything as long as you don't overdo it" category. So do sugar and salt, for that matter, but you probably get plenty of those from food.)


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    What about margaritas? They have alcohol, sugar and salt.


  • sockdevs

    @Polygeekery said:

    What about margaritas? They have alcohol, sugar and salt.

    Everything in moderation

    Including moderation.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Do you have functional kidneys and no high blood pressure? Eat as much salt as you find tasty then. Those allowances are miniscule.

    Do you want to no longer have functional kidneys or low blood pressure? Eat as much salt as you find tasty then.

    @anotherusername said:

    Your need for sugar water is typically pretty low, if you're an average person. Salt can be necessary if you've been sweating a lot.

    Fun side rank: sports drinks. Surely a billion dollar industry based around making people believe they need sugar water would lie or mislead people, right?

    Marketplace!

    Sports drinks promise to rehydrate, provide energy to muscles in the form of sugar and replenish electrolytes lost during exercise.

    Electrolytes are minerals, such as potassium and sodium, that carry an electrical charge and are important for body function. They can be depleted through sweat during intense exercise over a long period of time or in the hot sun.

    To test how many electrolytes are actually lost during exercise, Marketplace recruited a team of recreational runners and tested their blood before and after a 45-minute run. None of the runners depleted either their glucose or electrolyte levels enough to require a sports drink to replenish them. In many cases, electrolyte and glucose levels increased in the blood. The test revealed that they could have benefited from water alone.

    Wells, who is a researcher with the Human Physiology Research Unit at the University of Toronto and has worked with elite athletes, says that the body is very good at providing itself with what it needs to fuel moderate exercise.

    Full episode:


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Do you want to no longer have functional kidneys or low blood pressure? Eat as much salt as you find tasty then.

    I can assure you that in an otherwise healthy individual, consuming more than 1.5g of salt per day will not harm them in any way, shape, or form. Now, that is not to say that you could eat 1kg of it per day without dying, but the actual level of intake before harm is substantially higher than that level.

    I love cooking, and I properly season our meals. I would wager that each meal that we have will put us over the 1.5g limit that you quoted. When I visit the doctor, they always comment on my low blood pressure, and even did back when I was still a smoker.

    We go through a box of kosher salt a few times per year, we are in good health. Even my doctor has told me what I told you. If you have two functional kidneys and no high blood pressure, don't worry about salt intake.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    If you get thirsty, drink something.

    I thought that would go without saying. I did not know I was advocating for dehydration.

    If I eat a lot of salt, I bloat up. Need extra liquid to flush it out. Note that this doesn't raise my blood pressure, but it might make me a little uncomfortable. Effect is on the order of a couple of pounds.



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    Do you want to no longer have functional kidneys or low blood pressure? Eat as much salt as you find tasty then.

    Huh?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @boomzilla said:

    If I eat a lot of salt, I bloat up. Need extra liquid to flush it out. Note that this doesn't raise my blood pressure, but it might make me a little uncomfortable. Effect is on the order of a couple of pounds.

    That is just simple biology. Your body retains more water in order to dilute the elevated salt levels. That is also how lots of fad diets "work". They put you on a diet that has basically no sodium in it and your body pisses out a lot of weight and you "miraculously" lose 3-5 lbs in a few days.

    Just water though, nothing to worry about. If the extra water makes you feel uncomfortable though, that is a very sensible reason to watch your sodium intake.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    That is just simple biologychemistry.

    But, yeah. Point being, I benefit from drinking more liquid when I eat a lot of salt.

    @Polygeekery said:

    Just water though, nothing to worry about. If the extra water makes you feel uncomfortable though, that is a very sensible reason to watch your sodium intake.

    Bah. Just drink a few more glasses of water. No reason to punish my taste buds by restricting salt.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    I can assure you that in an otherwise healthy individual, consuming more than 1.5g of salt per day will not harm them in any way, shape, or form.

    Thanks, Dr. Polygeekery. That's sound medical advice.

    Wait, hang on, I'm getting a note from my producer-- turns out that is actually NOT sound medical advice, and that you're not even a doctor!

    http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/HealthyEating/Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs-About-Sodium_UCM_306840_Article.jsp

    @Doctors with science and shit said:

    What would the health impact be of lowering sodium consumption to less than 1,500 mg per day for most Americans?
    One estimate suggested that if the U.S. population moved to an average intake of 1,500 mg/day sodium from its current level, it could result in a 25.6% overall decrease in blood pressure and an estimated $26.2 billion in health care savings. Another estimate projected that achieving this goal would reduce deaths from CVD by anywhere from 500,000 to nearly 1.2 million over the next 10 years.

    but but but people sweat and...

    @Still doctors with massive amount of aggregated data, and zero anecdotes said:

    The recommendation for less than 1500 mg/day does not apply to people who lose large amounts of sodium in sweat, such as competitive athletes and workers exposed to extreme heat stress (for example, foundry workers and fire fighters)

    Since this isn't The Daily What The Firefighter, I'm guessing that doesn't apply to any of us.



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    Thanks, Dr. Polygeekery. That's sound medical advice.

    Wait, hang on, I'm getting a note from my producer-- turns out that is actually NOT sound medical advice, and that you're not even a doctor!

    Age-adjusted associations and then multivariate associations between systolic BP (SBP) and lifestyle behaviors were estimated using multiple linear regressions.
    ...
    The 5 parameters representing the well-accepted modifiable factors for hypertension reduction plus age and education level, accounted for 19.7% of the SBP variance in women and 12.8% in men. Considering their squared partial correlation coefficient, age and BMI were the most important parameters relating to SBP level. Salt intake was not associated with SBP in either sex after multiple adjustments.



  • You're conflating a change in an average with what a specific person should do.

    Suppose we had a very small study of 2 people. Persons X and Y both eat 2,000 mg of salt per day. Person X is relatively healthy and does not suffer from any negative effects. Person Y is not, and suffers from high blood pressure.

    If you say that persons X and Y should both follow that advice and cut back to 1,500 mg of salt, you miss the point. Person Y might need to cut back to 1,000 mg of salt, and then he would no longer suffer from high blood pressure. Person X can continue doing what he's been doing, because it's not causing him any problems.

    In this simplified scenario, the average intake of sodium has been cut to 1,500 mg, and high blood pressure in the subjects has been eliminated.

    Expand that to a whole population and the message is, the people who actually need to cut back on salt are the people who actually need to cut back on salt.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Wait, hang on, I'm getting a note from my producer-- turns out that is actually NOT sound medical advice, and that you're not even a doctor!

    And neither are you, so perhaps you should read the most recent research, and not advocacy groups that have to justify their existence?

    Actual doctors, and scientists, and shit:

    This week a meta-analysis of seven studies involving a total of 6,250 subjects in the American Journal of Hypertension found no strong evidence that cutting salt intake reduces the risk for heart attacks, strokes or death in people with normal or high blood pressure.

    The origin of this bullshit, as told by doctors and scientists and shit:

    Fears over salt first surfaced more than a century ago. In 1904 French doctors reported that six of their subjects who had high blood pressure—a known risk factor for heart disease—were salt fiends. Worries escalated in the 1970s when Brookhaven National Laboratory's Lewis Dahl claimed that he had "unequivocal" evidence that salt causes hypertension: he induced high blood pressure in rats by feeding them the human equivalent of 500 grams of sodium a day. (Today the average American consumes 3.4 grams of sodium, or 8.5 grams of salt, a day.)

    More from doctors and scientists and shit:

    Scientific tools have become much more precise since then, but the correlation between salt intake and poor health has remained tenuous. Intersalt, a large study published in 1988, compared sodium intake with blood pressure in subjects from 52 international research centers and found no relationship between sodium intake and the prevalence of hypertension. In fact, the population that ate the most salt, about 14 grams a day, had a lower median blood pressure than the population that ate the least, about 7.2 grams a day. In 2004 the Cochrane Collaboration, an international, independent, not-for-profit health care research organization funded in part by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, published a review of 11 salt-reduction trials. Over the long-term, low-salt diets, compared to normal diets, decreased systolic blood pressure (the top number in the blood pressure ratio) in healthy people by 1.1 millimeters of mercury (mmHg) and diastolic blood pressure (the bottom number) by 0.6 mmHg. That is like going from 120/80 to 119/79. The review concluded that "intensive interventions, unsuited to primary care or population prevention programs, provide only minimal reductions in blood pressure during long-term trials." A 2003 Cochrane review of 57 shorter-term trials similarly concluded that "there is little evidence for long-term benefit from reducing salt intake."

    So, forgive me if I follow the advice of my doctor. I pay him, you spout nonsense for free.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Can we jeff the armchair doctoring into another thread?

    [done - bz]



  • @Polygeekery said:

    >he induced high blood pressure in rats by feeding them the human equivalent of 500 grams of sodium a day.

    I would not be surprised if my BP went up if I ate a pound of salt a day. But I suspect I'd have bigger problems.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    would reduce deaths from CVD by anywhere from 500,000 to nearly 1.2 million

    WTH, how do you "reduce" deaths by increasing the number? Am I parsing this wrong? Can someone please explain?


    Filed under: I'm not sure if that blue squiggle under by should be there...



  • @accalia said:

    avaolable

    And, as demonstrated, hand power also varies widely.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @rc4 said:

    hand power
    Do you REALIZE how hard it is to type with PAWS :interrobang:



  • @Tsaukpaetra said:

    WTH, how do you "reduce" deaths by increasing the number? Am I parsing this wrong? Can someone please explain?

    The number of deaths in the next 10 years would be lower than the current year (I guess). The difference in annual deaths would be in the range of 500,000 to 1.2 million.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    OH! Yeah, that blue squiggle was definitely where it was at.


    Filed under: Filed bug [424-9910.3]: Potential parse miss from conjunction-bounded clauses



  • @accalia said:

    avaolable

    Like the avowelability of that word?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @anotherusername said:

    2,000 mg of salt per day

    Yuck! I'd find that horribly salty (except in conditions where I was sweating a lot, of course, but that's uncommon for me).



  • I actually went and got Five Guys for lunch. This thread was making me hungry.

    And that's not even counting the half cup or so of peanuts I ate.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @anotherusername said:

    And that's not even counting the half cup or so of peanuts I ate.

    Don't listen to that damned Canadian. If you don't have high blood pressure, and are not undergoing dialysis, you will be fine. ;)

    The calories might make you need to buy bigger pants though. :stuck_out_tongue:



  • I expect to burn off most of the calories fretting over the World Series game, so I'm sure I'll be fine.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    "Meat sweats" burn calories also.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @loopback0 said:

    Although that's simply because ~67% of the sodium is replaced with potassium.

    That is a fucking terrible idea. Instead of outstripping your daily recommended intake of salt, you can overdose on potassium, which is much worse.



  • Probably.

    I don't (knowingly) consume the stuff.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Fun side rank: sports drinks. Surely a billion dollar industry based around making people believe they need sugar water would lie or mislead people, right?

    The important ingredient in a sports drink is not the sugar, it's the electrolytes. Which is a fancy way of saying salt. Yes, you don't need them if you just run around the block, but they're still the best thing you can drink while doing sports.

    @Polygeekery said:

    Don't listen to that damned Canadian. If you don't have high blood pressure, and are not undergoing dialysis, you will be fine. :wink:

    Well, there are people whose blood pressure increases significantly after eating salt. Those people should watch their intake.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @loopback0 said:

    Probably

    Listen to the Bra Fox, he is 25 and has degrees in all the things. 743 degrees and counting. Still working on CS though, for some reason.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Still working on CS though, for some reason.

    So he's transdegree?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @loopback0 said:

    So he's transdegree?

    He came here to deceive us in to thinking he knows :wtf: he is talking about. He doesn't even work in computer security. He works for NAMBLA.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    He came here to deceive us in to thinking he knows :wtf: he is talking about.

    I think he needs to try harder, then.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Or fuck off back to tumblr. That's my preference.


  • sockdevs

    .... of the two off topic discussions i've been in today it's the one that's still tangentially related to the discussion at hand that gets jeffed? really?!

    DISCOURSISTENT MODS!



  • @accalia said:

    DISCOURSISTENT MODS!

    When in Rome...

    (Hint: it's one someone asked to be Jeffed)


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    It's been a really slow day today.


  • sockdevs

    @loopback0 said:

    (Hint: it's one someone asked to be Jeffed)

    the other one someone mentioned should be jeffed in thread.... guess they didn't flag for it.

    :rofl:


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @accalia said:

    they didn't flag for it.
    What's this? Are we low on flags?
    Guess it's time to hoard them then, they might be worth something someday... ;)



  • @accalia said:

    guess they didn't flag for it.

    Or it's not been seen yet, like the one I flagged for a Jeffing.


  • sockdevs

    the one in the sales pitch driven marketing?

    that was a fun discussion. :smiley:

    and absolutely MILES from being on target.



  • @accalia said:

    the one in the sales pitch driven marketing?

    Nah.



  • @asdf said:

    The important ingredient in a sports drink is not the sugar, it's the electrolytes. Which is a fancy way of saying salt. Yes, you don't need them if you just run around the block, but they're still the best thing you can drink while doing sports.

    Except saltwater tastes like shit. So they add sugar. Now it tastes like neutral shit. So they add MOAR sugar. Then, when it's finally as sweet as soda, they market it as healthy. :thumbsup:

    You now what salt is good for? Melting ice. So you don't need 4WD.



  • @accalia said:

    .... of the two off topic discussions i've been in today it's the one that's still tangentially related to the discussion at hand that gets jeffed? really?!

    It was explicitly requested (nicely!) by the OP.


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