How is it possible to get scrollbar so wrong!?





  • Start menu scrollbar seems to work fine for me. I think when Win10 first came out it was busted though.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Isn't that what always happens when people try to reinvent the scrollbar?
    Spotify has a scrollbar I can never see (dark grey on dark grey)
    Discourse has some greenblue bar that is supposed to represent the scrollbar

    Why do Designers think I want to use their crappy version of a scrollbar when the windows scrollbar works just fine for every other program? Can't we just use the OS-defined scrollbar? Pretty sure every OS allows you to change the scrollbar-design, too!

    Filed Under: Cue the "There was this bug in the windows scrollbar that allowed for total control-response from people



  • Less broken than a Discoscrollbar.



  • Wow, it's almost like Discourse's scrollbar.



  • @Kuro said:

    Discourse has some greenblue bar that is supposed to represent the scrollbar

    @loopback0 said:

    Less broken than a Discoscrollbar.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Wow, it's almost like Discourse's scrollbar.

    Did anyone else think of typing something about Discourse's scrollbar? I think I was the first one to think of doing that in this thread.



  • That's how broken it is. Everyone wants to point it out.



  • @Kuro said:

    Why do Designers think I want to use their crappy version of a scrollbar when the windows scrollbar works just fine for every other program? Can't we just use the OS-defined scrollbar? Pretty sure every OS allows you to change the scrollbar-design, too!

    Your post gets even funnier when you realize it's the OS developers who fucked up the custom scrollbar and made it part of the OS.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Fucking scrollbars: how do they work?



  • Am I missing something? Discourse uses my browser's native scrollbar, are you guys talking about mobile or something? Or is this about how Discourse used to be?



  • Was @ben_lubar the first one to think of typing something about Discourse's scrollbar?

    [poll]

    • Yes
    • No
      [/poll]


  • @Captain said:

    the first one to think of

    Impossible to know without a mind reader and a time machine.



  • @LB_ said:

    Am I missing something? Discourse uses my browser's native scrollbar,

    ... but then it changes the page length during a scroll event, breaking the scroll bar utterly.



  • Wait, you people actually click on the scroll bar!? I can understand for the start menu, but for webpages?

    Why would you want to do that though? Do you, like, memorize where to drag the scrollbar to get to certain text on a page? Do you not have Home/End keys or their ctrl+alt+arrow-key equivalents? Do you not have a mouse wheel or a touchpad?

    EDIT: Ok, somehow seeing the mouse in the first post didn't register with me...I'm TR :wtf: for thinking that it was custom scrollbars that was being shown as bad.



  • @LB_ said:

    Wait, you people actually click on the scroll bar!? … for webpages?

    Yep. On everything but Pissforce, which, as has been noted, breaks the scrollbars utterly.

    Here's a use case for you.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @ben_lubar said:

    I think I was the first one to think of doing that in this thread.

    So, what you are saying is... I :hanzo:'d 3 people because you were so slow in typing what you are thinking?

    @Gaska said:

    Your post gets even funnier when you realize it's the OS developers who fucked up the custom scrollbar and made it part of the OS.

    Wait, thats a standard scrollbar? What program is this even? How would you... why would you... argh

    Filed Under: Argh!!!



  • Hate to rain on your parade but I cannot reproduce that.



  • @LB_ said:

    Wait, you people actually click on the scroll bar!?

    Certainly. For long pages or documents, if you know approximately where you want to go it’s much faster to option-click it so the slider jumps to that location or clicking the slider and dragging it to where you want to go, than to repeatedly swipe over the mouse/operate the scroll wheel to get there.



  • @LB_ said:

    Do you, like, memorize where to drag the scrollbar to get to certain text on a page?

    Sometimes, for long pages, yes.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Gurth said:

    option-click

    ?

    @Gurth said:

    operate the scroll wheel to get there

    I introduce you to free-scroll mouse wheels. Your life is now better.

    Filed Under: Seriously - free-scroll mouse wheels make scrollbars totally useless for that purpose. They're a wonderful thing



  • @sloosecannon said:

    @Gurth said:
    option-click

    ?

    Shift-click on Windows.

    @sloosecannon said:

    @Gurth said:
    operate the scroll wheel to get there

    I introduce you to free-scroll mouse wheels. Your life is now better.

    Shift-click works whether or not you have one. ::shrug::



  • @LB_ said:

    Wait, you people actually click on the scroll bar!?

    Whether or not that's a popular thing to do, that's no excuse for it to be completely broken.

    @LB_ said:

    Do you, like, memorize where to drag the scrollbar to get to certain text on a page?

    I like the Visual Studio mode where it turns the scrollbar into a little compacted version of the syntax-colored text in the window. Makes it super easy to locate stuff. Like scrolling through a video with keyframe previews in Vegas, but vertical.


  • area_deu

    @blakeyrat said:

    I like the Visual Studio mode where it turns the scrollbar into a little compacted version of the syntax-colored text in the window.

    The #1 reason to install Power Tools if you only have VS2010.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    I like the Visual Studio mode where it turns the scrollbar into a little compacted version of the syntax-colored text in the window. Makes it super easy to locate stuff. Like scrolling through a video with keyframe previews in Vegas, but vertical.

    +1 that's a great use of the scrollbar



  • @aliceif said:

    The #1 reason to install Power Tools if you only have VS2010.

    ... why would you be using such an old version?

    @sloosecannon said:

    +1 that's a great use of the scrollbar

    It makes me enthusiastic that maybe GUI designers are starting to make use of spatial memory (things like, say, recognizing code by the shape of the text) again, instead of doing all they can to sabotage people's spatial memory abilities.

    But it's probably just a fluke.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    ... why would you be using such an old version?

    Company mandate, for example. I'm stuck on 2010 too.

    Funnily enough, we can have VS2012 Data Tools installed for the DB projects, but not for actual development. Don't ask why.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Company mandate, for example. I'm stuck on 2010 too.

    What would happen if you upgrade? Do they shoot you?

    Every company I've worked for in a developer position, they'd just say, "here's your MSDN login, download whatever, knock yourself out."



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What would happen if you upgrade?

    You get a dialog saying "you need administrator permissions to perform this action" or something like that. And since you don't have local admin on the machine, you're boned.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Every company I've worked for in a developer position, they'd just say, "here's your MSDN login, download whatever, knock yourself out."

    Well, this one is... special.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    You get a dialog saying "you need administrator permissions to perform this action" or something like that. And since you don't have local admin on the machine, you're boned.

    How the fuck are you a software developer without local admin?

    "Ok! I just finished our new desktop app! Now to test the installer-- oh wait I can't."

    ... I guess it works if you write web apps and are perfectly ok doing 100% of your testing on IIS Express and never need to attach a debugger to anything? Maybe?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    "Ok! I just finished our new desktop app! Now to test the installer-- oh wait I can't."

    ClickOnce deployment apparently works without any permissions over basic user. Actually, I haven't really run into anything that would require me to have admin except trying to install some Visual Studio add-ins.

    What's funny is that we got sysadmin permissions on the production databases on like day 2, but local admin? Nope, guess we're just too irresponsible.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    How the fuck are you a software developer without local admin?

    Company security policy. Sheesh, can't you just accept that @Maciejasjmj's bosses are utter idiots and he has to cope with their random policies if only because they're his bosses?



  • Oh I get that, what I don't get is just rolling over and taking it instead of, say, fighting to get a MSDN license, or leaving for another workplace that actually respects your time.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    leaving for another workplace that actually respects your time.

    Well, my contract luckily ends in a month, so I plan to be back to in-house development instead of doing on-premises work for this particular client.

    (And yes, for in-house development we get proper laptops with local admin and basically no restrictions for what goes there. It's just the client that requires us to use their machines)


  • mod

    We have a "don't ask don't tell" policy with the helpdesk about being local admins. We're not technically supposed to be; we're supposed to call them and have local admin temporarily granted when we need to install things. The fact that we all then use that to permanently grant ourselves local admin is deliberately ignored.



  • @sloosecannon said:

    @Gurth said:
    option-click

    ?

    Pressing the key marked by the red box in the following illustration:

    and while keeping it pressed, clicking in the scroll bar. Apparently, shift-clicking does the same on Windows (thanks, @Parody — I wish I’d known that in my Windows days).

    @sloosecannon said:

    I introduce you to free-scroll mouse wheels. Your life is now better.

    I don’t want a scroll wheel. I prefer a mouse with a touch-sensitive upper surface that I can give a swipe to move the page. At the same time, I also like to option-click in the scroll bar if I know where on a long page I want to go.



  • @Gurth said:

    option-click

    @Gurth said:
    shift-click

    TIL in both cases.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Gurth said:

    @sloosecannon said:
    @Gurth said:
    option-click

    ?

    Pressing the key marked by the red box in the following illustration:

    Oh. Mac keyboard stuff. OK. Why the elgiu do they need a special snowflake keyboard again?

    @Gurth said:

    I prefer a mouse with a touch-sensitive upper surface that I can give a swipe to move the page. At the same time, I also like to option-click in the scroll bar if I know where on a long page I want to go.

    Ick - Touch sensitive upper surface is icky. I'll take my MX Master thankyouverymuch

    @loopback0 said:

    TIL in both cases.

    +1



  • @loopback0 said:

    TIL in both cases.

    Srsly?

    @sloosecannon said:

    +1

    I know people don't read manuals, but you've never ONCE been bored and looked up an OS' list of shortcuts?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    I know people don't read manuals, but you've never ONCE been bored and looked up an OS' list of shortcuts?

    I have, but apparently I didn't look up that list



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @loopback0 said:
    TIL in both cases.

    Srsly?


    Yup.
    @blakeyrat said:
    I know people don't read manuals, but you've never ONCE been bored and looked up an OS' list of shortcuts?

    Not that list, it seems.



  • @tufty said:

    Here's a use case for you.

    Why not just hit enter to jump from one result to another?

    @blakeyrat said:

    I like the Visual Studio mode where it turns the scrollbar into a little compacted version of the syntax-colored text in the window. Makes it super easy to locate stuff. Like scrolling through a video with keyframe previews in Vegas, but vertical.

    Ah yeah, that's cool - I just didn't know Visual Studio supported it. I think the one time I had that it was when I was trying out Sublime Text.



  • @LB_ said:

    Why not just hit enter to jump from one result to another?

    Because there's 300 results over 3 blocks and you've already seen it's not in the first group.



  • LOL it's like Discourse's scrollbar.



  • @Rhywden said:

    Hate to rain on your parade but I cannot reproduce that.

    I couldn't repro it at first either, but when I expanded a lot of folders in my Start menu, all of a sudden I could. Bloody hell, it even works if I expand just one folder

    Thanks for the shitload of stuff, Visual Studio! :thumbsup:



  • @Boner said:

    LOL it's like Discourse's scrollbar.

    But scrolls smoother.



  • Wait, in the Windows world you can't run a web server or install things or run a debugger without being root?

    That sucks. I wonder when Windows will catch up with Linux.



  • Only installers need admin privileges. AFAIK you can run servers and debuggers on limited accounts just fine (I believe I have in fact).



  • Can't you just install to a folder inside your home directory?



  • You can unzip a program anywhere you want and run it, but installers require elevation before they begin to run. Usually the only reason for this requirement is changing registry keys. Most programs I have used that have installers also have zip downloads for "portable" versions that don't need registry stuff or exact installation locations.



  • @LB_ said:

    Most programs

    [citation needed]


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