WTF, conspiracy theorists about Ahmed Mohamed on Hacker News
-
Less easy to overlook the fact people of that particular group have a tendency to above-average murdering lots of people. Unless you're liberal, in which case great extremes must be taken to ensure that no one except right-wing Christians get painted broadly as terrorist threats.
-
Do you not see the difference? All the imaginary sky uncles deserve the ridicule. No ideology should get a blind pass hiding behind my brown skin.
-
above-average murdering lots of people
I'd throw up a Citation Needed, but then I remembered which thread this is, and realized if it didn't even being with a logical, fact-based argument, ain't no way I'm changing the momentum of that shit-train.
toot toot
-
yup this is problem, when one does not distinguish bigots from racists from people with certain ideology. Leftists and SJW just muddy the water.
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
@anotherusername said:
above-average murdering lots of people
I'd throw up a Citation Needed, but then I remembered which thread this is, and realized if it didn't even being with a logical, fact-based argument, ain't no way I'm changing the momentum of that shit-train.
Here, here's a link:
Little Support for Terrorism Among Muslim Americans
Recent events have raised questions about the threat of homegrown terrorism in the U.S., but survey results show that Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject extremism.
And now that you've read the headline, go read the actual article, because the numbers they reported contradicted their own headline.
-
yup this is problem, when one does not distinguish bigots from racists from people with certain ideology. Leftists and SJW just muddy the water.
"Look, I'd LOVE to stop being a fuckhole, but all these people just keep insisting I stop being a fuckhole!"
-
www.pewforum.org
Little Support for Terrorism Among Muslim AmericansThank you for posting a 6 year out of date link that doesn't support your point. I've made a note of it.
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
link ... doesn't support your point
Almost 1 out of 10 Muslim Americans said that terrorism was "sometimes or often" justified. There are something like 5-12 million Muslim Americans. That's not "little support", that's fucking horrid.
What percentage of self-identifying Christians do you think would say that picketing military funerals to chant "god hates fags" is "sometimes or often" justified? And that's not even a fair comparison to killing civilians.
@Lorne_Kates said:
6 year out of date
You have anything more recent? Please share it.
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
I'd throw up a Citation Needed, but then I remembered which
threadforum this is, and realized if it didn't even being with a logical, fact-based argument, ain't no way I'm changing the momentum of that shit-train.FTFY
-
Almost 1 out of 10 Muslim Americans said that terrorism was "sometimes or often" justified. There are something like 5-12 million Muslim Americans.
You know when someone says something so unbelievably stupid, you can't even form a response? Yup. Anyone else can have a crack at this if they want. I'm out.
-
...I just quoted what the article said, and happen to disagree with them on how concerning it is.
And the 5-12 million figure came from Google.
So what's your problem exactly?
-
...I just quoted what the article said, and happen to disagree with them on how concerning it is.
And the 5-12 million figure came from Google.
So what's your problem exactly?
We'll talk when you learn about extrapolating sample sizes to populations. Page me after Stats 101.
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
@anotherusername said:
Almost 1 out of 10 Muslim Americans said that terrorism was "sometimes or often" justified. There are something like 5-12 million Muslim Americans.
You know when someone says something so unbelievably stupid, you can't even form a response? Yup. Anyone else can have a crack at this if they want. I'm out.
To me, that reads like the original question was "Is terrorism ever justified", at least 9/100 said 'sometimes', some fraction said 'often', and those got collated in the final conclusion.
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
We'll talk when you learn about extrapolating sample sizes to populations. Page me after Stats 101.
The whole fucking point in an opinion poll is getting a representative sample of the population. The margin for error in a correctly-sampled study should be minimal, and they report it. Pew Research has been doing it for a while. If you're so goddamn smart then why don't you go tell them how to do their job better?
that reads like the original question was "Is terrorism ever justified"
It was more along the lines of "is suicide bombing or other forms of violence against civilian targets ever justified to defend Islam from its enemies". About 8% said sometimes, about 1% said often. So yes, ~9% was the combination of "sometimes" and "often". Another percentage said "rarely", but I left them out, just to give them the benefit of the doubt.
-
Mind you, even buttuming that sample size does directly extrapolate to population, it still says nothing beyond "9% of a stereotypical population see things in terms that aren't black or white". Given the inherent racism in America (and, to be honest, most western countries), I'm surprised it's only 9%.
And anyway, how many American Christians would agree that state sanctioned murder is sometime or often justified? Torture? Overturning other states? Supporting states or militias who murder, torture and terrorise? Would they be wrong or right in doing so?
When you've been called a nigger all your life, passed over for promotion when the underqualified redneck gets one, and stopped twice a week by the police for possession of dark skin and above-averagely-curly hair, you might consider, for example, race riots as being "sometimes" or "often" justified.
-
it still says nothing beyond "9% of a stereotypical population see things in terms that aren't black or white"
It wasn't black or white, it was "never, rarely, sometimes, often", and I delineated them between "rarely" and "sometimes". It felt like a pretty fair place to draw the line.
When you've been called a nigger all your life, passed over for promotion when the underqualified redneck gets one, and stopped twice a week by the police for possession of dark skin and above-averagely-curly hair, you might consider, for example, race riots as being "sometimes" or "often" justified.
You'd be wrong if you did. If many people agreed with you, that would be an alarming statistic.
-
And anyway, how many American Christians would agree that state sanctioned murder is sometime or often justified? Torture? Overturning other states? Supporting states or militias who murder, torture and terrorise? Would they be wrong or right in doing so?
But it wouldn't be FAIR to assume all American Christians agree with murder and torture, just because some fringe radicals think it's okay. Painting an entire culture and religion with a broad brush like that would be wrong.
"9% of a stereotypical population see things in terms that aren't black or white"
In other words "I'm not racist, but if you misinterpret this one poll I read once, it proves that all people who have a different skin color than me want to rape and murder everyone you know and love, so we should kill them. But I'm not racist. It's just common sense."
Yup.
-
It felt like a pretty fair place to draw the line.
"Look, I'm not saying ALL Muslims are savage murders. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much skin, or that you're wrong for eating pork? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these terrorists. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
But it wouldn't be FAIR to assume all American Christians agree with murder and torture, just because some fringe radicals think it's okay. Painting an entire culture and religion with a broad brush like that would be wrong.
If we were talking about somewhere around 1 in 1000 American Muslims, you'd probably have a valid point. We're not. We're talking about almost 1 in 10, according to that poll. Not a group of fringe radicals. Hundreds of thousands of Americans.
-
Given the inherent racism in
America (and, to be honest, most western countries)humanityFTFH
-
You will have to condemn the ideology, it is a problem with Islam. The poll only is sampling the percent of literalists within one religion. Christians have learned to throw away most of their holly book, most Muslims have done that too, only that a good fraction do not have the courage to admit it when asked.
And anyway, how many American Christians would agree that state sanctioned murder is sometime or often justified? Torture? Overturning other states? Supporting states or militias who murder, torture and terrorise? Would they be wrong or right in doing so?
Yet another imaginary uncle and his loyal literalists following his infinite wisdom. I am sure polls will be damning! and yet no one will blame the actual culprit which is the religion, because religion is considered innocent always!When you've been called a nigger all your life, passed over for promotion when the underqualified redneck gets one, and stopped twice a week by the police for possession of dark skin and above-averagely-curly hair, you might consider, for example, race riots as being "sometimes" or "often" justified.
There is a problem with race specially in the south. Definitely it is much better than East, Middle East, and Europe. You see the big news here, because it is considered ugly here, and people hate racists. Since technology is created here it covers the problems in the US with a big magnifier, but it does not mean it is worse.
Given the inherent racism in America (and, to be honest, most western countries)
The worst type of racism is not in the west. Pay a visit to Dubai and see how people from east Asia are working as slaves. I am sure there are even worse places than Dubai, but I have not seen myself.
Actually US is far better than most countries. It is better because anyone can be an American. There is no american-ness, or skin color. It is far easier to integrate in the US, and that is why, terrorism, violence against/by immigrants, and racism are big issues in the Europe right now, but not in the US.
-
I've been following this news story. All this is is a successful troll for attention - so successful that people are STILL talking about it. It doesn't help that even the POTUS even gave it attention. All he did was take a clock apart and put it in a briefcase. Let it go, people.
-
If we were talking about somewhere around 1 in 1000 American Muslims, you'd probably have a valid point. We're not. We're talking about almost 1 in 10, according to that poll. Not a group of fringe radicals. Hundreds of thousands of Americans.
"Look, I'm not saying ALL Muslims are savage murders. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much skin, or that you're wrong for eating pork? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these terrorists. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
"Look, I'm not saying ALL Muslims are savage murders. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much skin, or that you're wrong for eating pork? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these terrorists. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
If we were talking about somewhere around 1 in 1000 American Muslims, you'd probably have a valid point. We're not. We're talking about almost 1 in 10, according to that poll. Not a group of fringe radicals. Hundreds of thousands of Americans.
<see, I can play this game too. your straw man proves nothing.>
-
If we were talking about somewhere around 1 in 1000 American Muslims, you'd probably have a valid point. We're not. We're talking about almost 1 in 10, according to that poll. Not a group of fringe radicals. Hundreds of thousands of Americans.
"Look, I'm not saying ALL Muslims are savage murders. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much skin, or that you're wrong for eating pork? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these terrorists. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
"Look, I'm not saying ALL Muslims are savage murders. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much skin, or that you're wrong for eating pork? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these terrorists. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
If we were talking about somewhere around 1 in 1000 American Muslims, you'd probably have a valid point. We're not. We're talking about almost 1 in 10, according to that poll. Not a group of fringe radicals. Hundreds of thousands of Americans.
Filed Under: Can I get in on this action?
-
"Look, I'm not saying ALL savage murderers are Muslims. But some of them are, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will move next door to you, and decide that your daughter is showing too much life, or that you're wrong for being alive? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can't afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm not justifying killing them. I'm not even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we stop letting in these murderers. But for everyone's safety, it might be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It would keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a small, controllable space. It'd be like a camp, just for them!"
-
"Look, I'm saying ALL savage murderers are Muslims. But some of them aren't, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them won't move next door to you, and decide that your daughter isn't showing too much life, or that you're right for being alive? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can afford to have these people living amongst us God fearing, law-abiding proper folk. Now, I'm justifying killing them. I'm even advocating deporting them-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our immigration policy so we don't stop letting in these murderers. But for everyone's safety, it might not be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It wouldn't keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a large, uncontrollable space. It'd be like a camp, for everyone!"
-
"Look, I'm saying ALL moderators are savage Muslims. But some of them aren't, beyond any shadow of a doubt. Do YOU want to take the chance that one of them will Jeff you, and decide that your president's daughter isn't being eaten by a dragon, or that they should do their job? Is your family's life worth that risk? We can afford to have these people living amongst us flame baiting, trolltastic proper folk. Now, I'm justifying megaJeffing them. I'm even advocating giving them a two character username-- though we need to have a serious rethink of our signup policy so we don't stop letting in these moderators. But for everyone's safety, it might not be good to create a safe space for these people to live and congregate. It wouldn't keep us safe from them, and give them a place to live and thrive amongst their own kind. It'd be a way to concentrate them into a large, uncontrollable space. It'd be like a camp, for everyone!"
-
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate, can we get back to the actual thing I posted?
-
About how racist you are? Nah, I'm more interested than trolling than debating
-
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate,
I wasn't having a debate. I was making fun of @Lorne_Kates.
-
@anotherusername said:
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate,
I wasn't having a debate. I was making fun of @Lorne_Kates.
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate, can we get back to the actual thing I posted?
-
@Lorne_Kates said:
@boomzilla said:
@anotherusername said:
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate,
I wasn't having a debate. I was making fun of @Lorne_Kates.
Now that everyone's had their fun with that little death camp straw man debate, can we get back to the actual thing I posted?
I wasn't having a debate. I was making fun of @Lorne_Kates.
-
@xaade said:
Fuck, I wish this was a white kid, because this shit goes down with white kids too, but the media doesn't make it national news.
There's something magical about the kid being Muslim that puts him above criticism.
... but you're not a racist.
Given your sarcastic assertion, please show us where in the dictionary racism involves discrimination against the Muslim religion, esp. given that some of my Muslim friends are white, some are black, and some are shades in between...?
Is Muslim a race? I've never seen it listed on the census.
'd
-
-
When you've been called a nigger all your life, passed over for promotion when the underqualified redneck gets one, and stopped twice a week by the police for possession of dark skin and above-averagely-curly hair, you might consider, for example, race riots as being "sometimes" or "often" justified.
You'd be wrong if you did. If many people agreed with you, that would be an alarming statistic.
There is a line somewhere. At what point does taking personal abuse cross over into justified retaliation? When they mug you? When they kick your teeth in? When they kill your child? When your whole community gets taken to the ovens for "processing"?
-
ovens for "processing"?
Is Soylent Green Kosher or Halal?
given that some of my Muslim friends are white, some are black, and some are shades in between...?
Some of my best Muslim friends are gay Jews.
-
When your whole community gets taken to the ovens for "processing"?
@Lorne_Kates said:
Is Soylent Green Kosher or Halal?
Soylent green is...n't cops?
-
Given your sarcastic assertion, please show us where in the dictionary racism involves discrimination against the Muslim religion, esp. given that some of my Muslim friends are white, some are black, and some are shades in between...?
I refer the honorable gentleman to my previous reply.It's easy to claim you're not a racist if you're careful / lucky enough to only spout your nastiness about people's chosen imaginary sky uncle. You can easily overlook the fact people of that particular group have a tendency to above-average brownness of skin.
Another nice gambit is the "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are [niggers/yids/muslims/slopes/gingers/french]"
-
-
There is a line somewhere. At what point does taking personal abuse cross over into justified retaliation? When they mug you? When they kick your teeth in? When they kill your child? When your whole community gets taken to the ovens for "processing"?
I'd say yes, the line is drawn at racial rioters damaging property that doesn't belong to them, mugging me, kicking my teeth in... all of the above. <inb4 that's not what you meant>
In other words, no matter how abused you think you are in this country, violence against civilian targets / uninvolved persons is still not justified. Even if retaliation was justified, it would be justified toward the specific people who deserved it. Not getting mad and going out and breaking windows and stealing a TV from some guy who's just trying to make an honest living and had the misfortune of trying to open a business in your neighborhood.
-
I'd say yes, the line is drawn at racial rioters damaging property that doesn't belong to them, mugging me, kicking my teeth in... all of the above.
In other words, no matter how abused you think you are in this country, violence against civilian targets / uninvolved persons is still not justified. Even if retaliation was justified, it would be justified toward the specific people who deserved it. Not getting mad and going out and breaking windows and stealing a TV from some guy who's just trying to make an honest living and had the misfortune of trying to open a business in your neighborhood.
I was talking about self-defense. I agree rioting is a different matter altogether and generally NOT justified.
@redwizard said:
Given your sarcastic assertion, please show us where in the dictionary racism involves discrimination against the Muslim religion, esp. given that some of my Muslim friends are white, some are black, and some are shades in between...?
I refer the honorable gentleman to my previous reply.It's easy to claim you're not a racist if you're careful / lucky enough to only spout your nastiness about people's chosen imaginary sky uncle. You can easily overlook the fact people of that particular group have a tendency to above-average brownness of skin.
Another nice gambit is the "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are [niggers/yids/muslims/slopes/gingers/french]"
That does not answer the question. Rather than go on a BlakeyRant™ on the topic, I'll screen shot Google's definition of racism for your convenience:
Nothing about religion in there. Which was the whole point of my demonstration involving various races that follow the practice of Islam that I was referring to.
Speaking of that, as for the "nice gambit" you introduced into the discussion, let me say that I agree that trying to pass a few friends off as evidence that one is not racist tends to have the reverse effect. It's not really proof either way. But the problem I have with the rebuttal is it's way overused to the point that's lost its meaning, as it's used as a make-wrong to trap a person more than anything else. I give it the same credibility as asking a young girl in high school: "have you had sex yet?" (Yes = slut, No = tease. Can't win.) Or asking a man to answer only yes or no to: "do you still beat your wife?" (Yes = GUILTY!, No = oh you used to, therefore GUILTY!) Therefore, I give it the same level of credibility as I do this guy with regard to claims of restitution owed - and about as much attention.
Good day.
-
Okay, you're not a racist. You're a bigot. Have a nice one.
-
Okay, you're not a racist. You're a bigot. Have a nice one.
Now you're just being an idiot. Whatever.
EDIT: Or maybe I'm the idiot for not recognizing a good-natured
?
-
@anotherusername said:
I'd say yes, the line is drawn at racial rioters damaging property that doesn't belong to them, mugging me, kicking my teeth in... all of the above.
In other words, no matter how abused you think you are in this country, violence against civilian targets / uninvolved persons is still not justified. Even if retaliation was justified, it would be justified toward the specific people who deserved it. Not getting mad and going out and breaking windows and stealing a TV from some guy who's just trying to make an honest living and had the misfortune of trying to open a business in your neighborhood.
I was talking about self-defense. I agree rioting is a different matter altogether and generally NOT justified.
When you replied, you replied to my post where I directly quoted someone <doesn't matter who, really> saying this:
you might consider, for example, race riots as being "sometimes" or "often" justified.
Self-defense is fine, and a different topic. Persons believing ^ would be concerning.
-
you replied to my post where I directly quoted someone
Yes I missed that. Sorry.
-
I'll screen shot Google's definition of racism for your convenience:
Fail. Everyone knows the preferred SJW source for definitions is wikipedia.
-
Fail. Everyone knows the preferred SJW source for definitions is
wikipediawhatever meaning suits them at the time.FTFY.
-
They've largely taken over wikipedia, so it really amounts to the same thing, except by using wikipedia, they can claim an objective source.
Filed under: it's OK to be an asshole for a good cause
