Chrome's window control fuckery



  • I'm sure I'm years late on complaining about this, but I rarely use Chrome, so I'm just catching up.

    Okay, so I've got a ton of windows open, riiiight? Cool. Scenario is set.

    WAIT almost set-- one of those Windows is Chrome. :thumbsup:

    So now I'm all like "Well hell, the window I have maximized right now? I don't want that one. I want a different one. I suppose I COULD hunt through the task bar to find the right one, but the task bar is allll the way down there, and my cursor is alllll the way up here. And besides, it was one of the last few windows I used. I'll just start minimizing until I find the right one."

    Park that cursor last button on the left, and start clicking. Paying attention to the windows as they reveal...

    Nope

    http://i.imgur.com/ylz6EWN.png

    Nope

    http://i.imgur.com/ylz6EWN.png

    Nope... wait, what the fuck just happened? Why did something different just happen? Where did my Chrome instance go? Let's look back at the tape to see what reallystrong text happened:

    @Instant Replay!!! said:

    http://i.imgur.com/ylz6EWN.png

    Nope

    http://i.imgur.com/ylz6EWN.png

    Nope

    What the holy shit, Chrome? In all those screenshots, the mouse didn't move position. I was just clicking away, expecting my mouse to be in the same spot over the standard Windows controls. But not Chrome. Because hey, why use standard controls that users are familiar with (and may have even themed themselves), in their standard position?

    And what the holy shit, Windows? Why do you let that happen?

    And for the holy trinity-- how many years did Chrome go with that 6 pixel gap between the edge of the window and the X button, causing millions of misclicks when someone tried to close the window?



  • Why are you running Windows 95, anyway?



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Why are you running Windows 95, anyway?

    I'm not. It's Windows 7 with Themes turned off. I like the look, I like the better performance, and it gives me more screen real-estate in the taskbar.



  • If you weren't using the Windows Classic theme, you'd find the Chrome buttons much closer to the Windows buttons.



  • Maybe stop running Windows 98 theme? Just a thought?

    Chrome's UI matches the OS as it's shipped for the last 7 years.

    And yes it sucks and is buggy and wrong that Chrome isn't rendering widgets correctly, but it also sucks and is wrong that you are a stuffy curmudgeon who is ranting in the senile home, "why did my computer-machine change!? I hate change so much I will install bullshit to trick myself into thinking I'm still running Windows 98!!! Daggummmit!!!"

    EDIT: oh it's not a thing you installed, but you're still running Windows 7 which is now TWO FULL RELEASE VERSIONS BEHIND.

    Now please give me a rant about how it does "everything you need" etc etc.



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    I like the better performance,

    You get worse performance that way, but sure why not.


  • BINNED

    LINUX MASTER RACE!

    In all seriousness now, is that option really missing on Windows? Because that sucks if it is.



  • dhromebook MASTER RACE!



  • Let's play guess the browser!
    On Win7 Firefox, IE 11 & Chrome ...



  • @ben_lubar said:

    dhromebook MASTER RACE!

    There are no settings?





  • It's easy, you put the answer right in your post. Maybe you should have [spoiler]spoler'd[/spoiler] it?

    <!-- spoler -->


  • I see 0 settings for adjusting the look, do I write that down as a yes then?
    :blowfish:



  • Because it is the wrong order? I think? I can't even tell anymore myself. The ugly one is FF, that is for sure.



  • @Luhmann said:

    The ugly one is FF, that is for sure.

    That's like one of the universal constants.



  • Oh order is important? That's different.





  • Right; Chrome's widgets were off a couple pixels on WINDOWS 7. TWO FULL VERSIONS BEHIND THE CURRENT OS RELEASE. Remember? We complained all about that YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS RELEVANT.


  • sockdevs

    @Onyx said:

    In all seriousness now, is that option really missing on Windows? Because that sucks if it is.

    yes, in fact that option is missing from chrome on windows.

    IIRC chromium on windows has it though....



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Maybe stop running Windows 98 theme? Just a thought?

    It shouldn't matter if I was running the My Little Dipshit Cunt-Queef and Sparkles theme. If Chrome doesn't match, it's TRWTF.

    @blakeyrat said:

    still running Windows 7

    Hmm, should I dig up the thread where I argued against a bunch of Windows 7 UI choice, and you went on about how Windows 7 is THE BEST AT EVERYTHING. Nah, all what it'll do is prove you wrong, and you do a good enough job at that yourself.

    @blakeyrat said:

    now TWO FULL RELEASE VERSIONS BEHIND.

    Yes, let me upgrade my work developer machine to THE LATEST GREATEST CUTTING EDGE the INSTANT IT COMES OUT so the widgets MIGHT look right on a browser I don't use because FUCK GETTING WORK DONE!

    You really are stupid sometimes.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Chrome's UI matches the OS as it's shipped for the last 7 years.

    As other screenshots below point out-- no, no it doesn't. It's almoststrong text the same (sorry "much closer"), but it is still not the same. Either it matches because it uses native widgets, or it fails.

    @blakeyrat said:

    TWO FULL RELEASE VERSIONS BEHIND.

    You can't even get this right. Three full releases. 8, 8.1, 10. Or as it's more commonly known: "Shit. Shit ignoring what users actually wanted. And cloud-based shit with added spyware and an appstore".



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Maybe stop running Windows 98 theme? Just a thought?

    Yes, because users having a choice on how their computer look is a BAD THING !

    Microsoft should just remove the themes and make everyone use the default look.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Chrome's UI matches the OS as it's shipped for the last 7 years.

    Chrome's UI should just use the OS widgets instead of trying to match the default look of the OS, because THEMES

    @blakeyrat said:

    you're still running Windows 7 which is now TWO FULL RELEASE VERSIONS BEHIND.

    And it is still supported until January 2020, so what is the reason people can't use it ?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    I like the better performance

    If you have a modern-esque GPU, performance is actually not better... but meh...

    Also, NOREPRO Windows 10, it uses the OS default control.



  • @sloosecannon said:

    Windows 10

    Trading one bug for another, huh?



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Chrome's UI should just use the OS widgets instead of trying to match the default look of the OS, because THEMES

    If it could write on top of the title bar, maybe. Every browser with the tabs above the address bar needs to either waste a lot of space or emulate the OS's widgets, at least on Windows.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Chrome's UI should just use the OS widgets instead of trying to match the default look of the OS, because THEMES

    Or windows could give native support for theming individual windows.


  • sockdevs

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    @sloosecannon said:
    Windows 10

    Trading one bug for another, huh?

    Windows 7 to windows 10 is trading one bug for E_OVERFLOW bugs...

    i'd love to get an explanation as to why the windows mail app crashes every hour on the hour on every windows 10 computer i have... It's something to do with having two exchange email accounts because it goes away if i drop the School account or the Work account, but since i still use both of them they're staying.



  • @xaade said:

    Or windows could give native support for theming individual windows.

    Isn't styling your own window controls supported in WPF?



  • @hungrier said:

    Isn't styling your own window controls supported in WPF?

    In a consistent manner to keep the positions correct? No.

    At least windows 98 gave you consistent results when you asked for the UI metrics, like border width, etc.
    Ever since XP that shit went out the window, and now you can't know where to put things.

    @TimeBandit said:

    Chrome's UI should just use the OS widgets instead of trying to match the default look of the OS, because THEMES

    I didn't realize that was a rule....

    But you know, Microsoft and there own rules. It wouldn't surprise me.



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    It shouldn't matter if I was running the My Little Dipshit Cunt-Queef and Sparkles theme. If Chrome doesn't match, it's TRWTF.

    I'm sure you can see the problem here: there is no way to add an extra window button and still guarantee that.

    Custom borders is a half-assed feature that's supported by Windows but not really.



  • @xaade said:

    In a consistent manner to keep the positions correct? No.

    Things do manage to do it, though. Visual Studio has its own style that IME looks consistent regardless of Windows version. So does Steam, so I don't think it's just Microsoft that knows the magic to make it happen.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @hungrier said:

    Steam

    Not an example of good UI...


  • sockdevs

    @sloosecannon said:

    Not an example of good UI...

    nor of one that actually looks anything like the standard windows look and feel.

    Photoshop is another one that does this. they do their own custom look and feel that completely ignores the local themes.... or at least they did the last time i actually used photoshop. it's possible that changed, but i doubt it.



  • @hungrier said:

    Visual Studio has its own style that IME looks consistent regardless of Windows version.

    But you're getting that backwards here.

    OP doesn't want it to look the same regardless of OS, that's easy.

    OP wants it to use the OS metrics so the buttons show up in the right place.

    As I said before, in 98 this worked by calling the OS for the metrics. You could create a borderless window, put custom controls in, so you could theme it, and you could guarantee the window borders and button positions matched.

    I know, because I did it, using the OS API to get the system metrics.

    Since XP, that hasn't worked, because the OS gives you metrics all over the place, and no documentation to tell you how to add it or subtract it to get the values you really need. And some parts of windows UI don't even honor the metrics either.

    After that, I don't even want to try on Windows 7,8,10.



  • @accalia said:

    Photoshop is another one that does this. they do their own custom look and feel that completely ignores the local themes....

    We used to do that too. Finally, after about a year, we had enough metrics to finally convince management that the amount of time spent fixing bugs was just not worth the effort. We finally killed the custom frame. (Note to designers: stop trying to make our Windows apps look like fucking Mac windows!)



  • @accalia said:

    i'd love to get an explanation

    Fire up process explorer, process monitor, get a crash dump, and start investigating! Or better yet, send me the dumps! I love that shit

    @xaade said:

    But you know, Microsoft and there theirown rules.

    Honestly, I don't expect a company as massive as microsoft with a codebase as massive as windows to be bulletproof in its consistency


  • sockdevs

    @mrguyorama said:

    Fire up process explorer, process monitor, get a crash dump, and start investigating!

    that sounds like work!

    @mrguyorama said:

    Or better yet, send me the dumps! I love that shit

    are you a nigerian prince then?



  • @accalia said:

    that sounds like work!

    Yes but I fix :smile:

    @accalia said:

    are you a nigerian prince then?

    Only if you give me your bank details so I can wire you the 900 million dollars you have inherited.


  • sockdevs

    @mrguyorama said:

    Yes but I fix :smile:

    i'll think about it then.... better make sure the data is properly scrubbed so you cna't get my credentials and stuff.....

    @mrguyorama said:

    Only if you give me your bank details so I can wire you the 900 million dollars you have inherited.

    oh! in that case nevermind! yes i'm sending you my bank details, my credit card number with CVV number, and my mothers maiden name. I look forward to doing business with you shortly and will make sure that the transfer of the stated sum of 900 million dollars goes smoothly and without issue!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @dcon said:

    Note to designers: stop trying to make our Windows apps look like fucking Mac windows!

    +1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

    @accalia said:

    will make sure that the transfer of the stated sum of 900 million dollars goes smoothly and without issue!

    I kinda want to see some guy who makes sure that scammers pay up. Using force, if necessary...

    Filed Under: superhero ideas, ??? Ideas Thread, etc



  • @Lorne_Kates said:

    It shouldn't matter if I was running the My Little Dipshit Cunt-Queef and Sparkles theme.

    What, uh, what site do you download that on?

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Hmm, should I dig up the thread where I argued against a bunch of Windows 7 UI choice, and you went on about how Windows 7 is THE BEST AT EVERYTHING.

    You actually should, because I have no recollection of typing that and I bet it's pretty brilliant.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Yes, let me upgrade my work developer machine to THE LATEST GREATEST CUTTING EDGE the INSTANT IT COMES OUT so the widgets MIGHT look right on a browser I don't use because FUCK GETTING WORK DONE!

    The widgets look fine on the OS you're currently using. Assuming you don't switch it into "I wish it were 1996 again"-mode.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    You really are stupid sometimes.

    Hell yeah.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    You can't even get this right. Three full releases. 8, 8.1, 10. Or as it's more commonly known: "Shit. Shit ignoring what users actually wanted. And cloud-based shit with added spyware and an appstore".

    I didn't know 8.1 counted, since it was a free upgrade from 8.0 I kind of just assumed it was more equivalent to a Service Pack or something. But whatever. Three versions behind. Why not.

    @Lorne_Kates said:

    Or as it's more commonly known: "Shit. Shit ignoring what users actually wanted. And cloud-based shit with added spyware and an appstore".

    I remember when I called up my IT guy and asked if the office was getting upgraded to Shit Ignoring What Users Actually Wanted, strangely he was confused by that even though that's the common name everybody knows for Windows 8.1.



  • @sloosecannon said:

    I kinda want to see some guy who makes sure that scammers pay up. Using force, if necessary...

    Scam blocker.

    He dual wields shields.



  • @xaade said:

    Or windows could give native support for theming individual windows.

    Why would that be desirable?


  • sockdevs

    @sloosecannon said:

    I kinda want to see some guy who makes sure that scammers pay up. Using force, if necessary...

    Blessed be she who scams the scammers, for the world is her oyster



  • @hungrier said:

    So does Steam,

    Steam also doesn't allow changing the fucking font size, so it's pretty much the exact opposite of "thing you want to cite as a good UI".



  • Just playing devil's advocate.

    Honestly, I would expect that every program use the same kit, and that windows does it's own theming (I don't mean ornate theming here, just whatever UI they land on, right now 7,8, and 10 let you change color, good enough), and allow you to pick certain programs to override the theme with another windows provided theme.

    So if I wanted chrome to have a blue border instead of a red one like my default color, that would be a nice to have.

    But straight up letting programs create their own window, has done more bad than good.


    I'll let one exception.

    WinAmp.

    Just because, I really liked how it did it. I really liked the boombox feel.



  • @xaade said:

    So if I wanted chrome to have a blue border instead of a red one like my default color, that would be a nice to have.

    I guess. Like the old MacOS folder/file colors feature maybe.

    @xaade said:

    But straight up letting programs create their own window, has done more bad than good.

    The problem is there's no way to stop them.



  • A few years ago the Chrome team replaced all controls with something which resembles the look of those controls in Chrome OS, "because consistency". They completely broke how the components behaved on the platform on which Chrome was running. For example, the scrollbar no longer had arrows and clicking in an empty area did not scroll the page to that place.

    It took them a few version to get that rectified, because end user backlash was enormous.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The problem is there's no way to stop them.

    It's a personal decision I guess.

    I suppose you could stop them, if you were the OS... Windows would have to be changed somehow. Maybe only let programs have access to the content of the window.

    But then altering title, etc....


    I do like having tabs up on the title bar, it's a much more practical use of the space.

    Maybe if windows had a standard way to do that.

    That's about the only good use I've seen.

    But then, what if someone else comes up with a good use for it.



  • @xaade said:

    I suppose you could stop them, if you were the OS... Windows would have to be changed somehow. Maybe only let programs have access to the content of the window.

    I'm a software developer. What's my incentive to switch to this new windowing model where I have less control over my product? And my product (for example, a borderless window video game) might be literally impossible to create? You better be handing me a HUUUUUGE time savings to make up for that.



  • Well, if I give you borderless window mode, we're back to square one.

    ...

    Oh, I know, how about I give you an environment to create apps in, and you make your borderless game into an app.

    ...

    That didn't work either.

    ...

    Well then, let's give people the tools to hurt themselves with.

    And let's show them how to do it (Microsoft office).

    ...

    There is a way to stop them, but is it worth it?

    You give people flexibility, and they will produce shit with it.

    Meh, I've done stated the obvious I guess.

    shrug


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