Ben Carson Gum is a Holocaust of flavor in my mouth!


  • Dupa

    Yay, I was right after all!



  • @xaade said:

    What would have happened had we not pumped so much CO2 into the atmosphere?

    Oh no. Now we have Nazis, Guns and Global Warming in a single thread. All it takes is for some idiot to bring up Abortion or 9/11 and the tread will enter an uncontrolled runaway chain reaction, exceed critical mass, collapse into a black hole and destroy the world.


  • Dupa

    @RandomStranger said:

    and the tread will enter an uncontrolled runaway chain reaction, exceed critical mass, collapse into a black hole and destroy the world.

    That's one fucking crazy tread.

    Just


  • kills Dumbledore

    @RandomStranger said:

    All it takes is for some idiot to bring up Abortion or 9/11

    Or transphobia.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    911phobia!


  • BINNED

    @RandomStranger said:

    Oh no. Now we have Nazis, Guns and Global Warming in a single thread. All it takes is for some idiot to bring up Abortion or 9/11 and the tread will enter the republican debate and how all of their candidates want toan uncontrolled runaway chain reaction, exceed critical mass, collapse into a black hole and destroy the world.

    FTFY



  • @dse said:

    Egypt to Ben Carson: no, the pyramids were not for storing grain you dumb shit.

    Last I checked, Egyptian antiquities officials also don't believe the Israelite enslavement in Egypt or their exodus actually happened. So you're basically not allowed to believe in a literal reading of that part of the Bible as history that actually happened without falling afoul of them, much less speculate that Joseph, a guy they believe never existed and/or never ruled Egypt, built pyramids for some reason other than their officially sanctioned reason.



  • Debating something that may or may not have happened thousands of years ago in a nation that's risen and fallen a dozen times is peanuts compared to a recent candidate-turned-President who said the United States had 58 states. <!-- :trolleybus: -->


  • BINNED

    @mott555 said:

    Debating something that may or may not have happened thousands of years ago in a nation that's risen and fallen a dozen times is peanuts

    Republican candidates are trolls feeding on pnuts and pnut butters. Who cares about state names and such trivia when you can debate about the grand scheme of things like killing baby Hitler nuts peeing on the moon after a failed Apollo mission conspiracy. That is what motivates their base, with their head up in their butts.



  • @dse said:

    That is what motivates their basemedia, with their head up in their butts.

    FTFY.



  • @dse said:

    Who cares about state names and such trivia

    Well, when you represent the federal government, who's job is to lead the country, and support the domestic integrity between states, it helps to know how many there are.

    I would be much less forgiving if he had said 48 or 52.

    "Sir, Alaska is complaining about Russia sending drones over their land"

    "Alaska.... let them solve their own problems. I have too many problems to deal with in our own country"

    "Sir.... Alaska is in our country."

    "What?.... pssst.... Nah.... No..."

    "Sir.... It's a state."

    "I know it isn't a state.... there's 58 states and Alaska isn't one."

    "Ok.... I'll just call up the last President...."

    "Putin?.... What's he going to do?"



  • @xaade said:

    "Ok.... I'll just call up the last President...."

    "Putin?.... What's he going to do?"

    I thought you weren't allowed to be a US citizen if you can't enumerate the presidents?



  • @PleegWat said:

    I thought you weren't allowed to be a US citizen if you can't enumerate the presidents?

    You only have to do it once.

    Seriously, that test is just there so that you actually bother to give a shit about the country you want to live in, or bother trying to find out if it's really the place you need to be.

    Somewhere along the line, we lost the concept that we have values, and focused mainly on our ability to make .00001% of the worlds population have slightly better lives.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @PleegWat said:

    I thought you weren't allowed to be a US citizen if you can't enumerate the presidents?

    Being born here gives you a free pass on that.



  • @antiquarian said:

    Being born here gives you a free pass on that.

    Those damn mexcans know the Const-a-tution bettern ah do!



  • @antiquarian said:

    @PleegWat said:
    I thought you weren't allowed to be a US citizen if you can't enumerate the presidents?

    Being born here gives you a free pass on that.

    Heh, figures. My knowledge of these matters exclusively originates from American cartoons.

    I could enumerate the Dutch Monarchs, but there's only 7 of them (Willem I, Willem II, Willem III, Wilhemina, Juliana, Beatrix, Willem-Alexander), and don't ask me inauguration years.



  • @boomzilla said:

    we're not talking about major combat operations of civilians with small arms against a mechanized and trained army.

    No? I thought that was exactly what was being suggested. That the minority jewish population, magically armed, would take on and somehow beat the military power which managed to kick the military might of most of the rest of Europe into a pulp for the first couple of years of the war. A minority jewish population who were blamed by much of the rest of the population for what was wrong with Germany (and, indeed, much of Europe) at the time.

    This thesis also fails to take into account that the jewish population had been subjected to "slow boiling", starting with "can't do this", then "can't do that", then "wear this star", then "we're going to rehouse you out of this ghetto". Significant armed resistance would probably have turned this into "shoot them like dogs".

    The effective underground movements giving armed resistance to the Nazis during the second world war all came from populations who had been suddenly invaded, and even that came at a massive cost. Entire villages were slaughtered in retribution for resistance action in France, for example .



  • @tufty said:

    I thought that was exactly what was being suggested

    Yes, that's what the gun grabbers always suggest.

    @tufty said:

    That the minority jewish population, magically armed, would take on and somehow beat the military power which managed to kick the military might of most of the rest of Europe into a pulp for the first couple of years of the war

    I think the Holocaust probably started something like 5 years before the war. Some armed resistance might also have made it more difficult for everyone to ignore what was going on with the Jews in Germany in the lead up to the war, both for locals and internationally.

    Might also have made no difference. I feel like I'm repeating myself. Oh, yeah, it's like you didn't read my previous comment. Well, here's another opportunity.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I think the Holocaust probably started something like 5 years before the war. Some armed resistance might also have made it more difficult for everyone to ignore what was going on with the Jews in Germany in the lead up to the war, both for locals and internationally.

    Might also have made no difference. I feel like I'm repeating myself. Oh, yeah, it's like you didn't read my previous comment. Well, here's another opportunity.

    Jews being repressed wasn't a thing that started a couple of years before the war. It was a thing that started a couple of centuries before the war. You could even say it is a thing that has always been, and just had a lull for a couple of decades after the war only because of the atrocities of the holocaust.



  • @PleegWat said:

    Jews being repressed wasn't a thing that started a couple of years before the war.

    Yes, but repressed vs disappeared is what we're talking about here.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @PleegWat said:
    Jews being repressed wasn't a thing that started a couple of years before the war.

    Yes, but repressed vs disappeared is what we're talking about here.

    Define Holocaust, in that case. From my recollection of my history lessons, the first major public act was the Kristallnacht, which was in November '38. From my recollection and a reading of the header of that article, armed resistance would only have made it bloodier.



  • @PleegWat said:

    Define Holocaust, in that case. From my recollection of my history lessons, the first major public act was the Kristallnacht, which was in November '38. From my recollection and a reading of the header of that article, armed resistance would only have made it bloodier.

    That seems to be when the real genocide began, I guess. Though I don't think it could have ultimately made things any bloodier for the Jews.



  • @PleegWat said:

    From my recollection and a reading of the header of that article, armed resistance would only have made it bloodier.

    Yeah but imagine if they had boomboxes and dubstep. It'd have been rockin'!



  • @PleegWat said:

    Heh, figures. My knowledge of these matters exclusively originates from American cartoonsAnimaniacs.

    FTFY



  • All of you crazy Fuckers[1] can keep going, I'll be over here with my fingers in my ears.

    1. Forum regulars on WTDWTF. What did you think I meant?


  • @boomzilla said:

    Yes, that's what the gun grabbers always suggest.

    Yada yada yada.

    Yes, I am a supporter of gun control. And yes, I disagree with the thesis "I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed". This does not, however, mean that I'm saying, as you seem to think, that the fact the majority of jews were unarmed is the best thing that could have happened.

    What I'm saying, as is pretty much anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together, is that Carson's claim is specious and idiotic.

    @boomzilla said:

    Some armed resistance might also have made it more difficult for everyone to ignore what was going on with the Jews in Germany in the lead up to the war, both for locals and internationally.

    Not at all. People locally and internationally largely didn't care about the jews, either in the lead up to the war, or, for the most case, during the war. If there had been armed uprising in the ghettos pre-war, the most likely result would have been treating the jews as terrorists, at which they would probably have become "an interior problem that that funny little Herr Hitler is dealing with in an effective manner."

    Kristallnacht was, arguably, the point where repression turned into violence and incarceration, but wide scale targetted executions of jews and other "undesirables" didn't start until 1941 with the einsatzgruppen, and actual industrial scale murder waited another year until 1942 with Heydrich's "Final Solution".



  • I'll continue here because some people have (perhaps accidentally) "liked" my previous post, don't want to edit that post and imply that they also "like" this.

    There seems to be an idée réçu that an armed population will somehow "stand up to" a repressive government. That's crap. When you're living in a comfortable society, it's very easy to cry

    You'll take my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands!

    It's far less easy to stand up, gun at the ready, when you know the government's response is

    Cold and dead, you say? Yep, we're OK with that.

    Even in a society where everyone has guns, most people will bow their heads and try to get on with their lives without being shot or having to shoot anyone. A recent example of this is Iraq under Saddam Hussein - pretty much every household had at least one firearm, and pretty much every "of age" male was trained to use them. And yet, the massively repressive regime, which used chemical weapons against its own people, was not toppled by its people.

    Indeed, even with evidence that Saddam's regime had been shooting and gassing its ethnic minorities, the response of the rest of the world was pretty much

    Meh, internal politics. How do we sell him more weaponry without the press finding out?

    Because we, the world in general, didn't give a fuck about the jews, and we didn't give a fuck about the kurds, and we didn't give fuck about the bosniak muslims, and we won't give a fuck about you or I if our respective governments decide to start ethnically cleansing us.

    Guns wouldn't have helped the jews, they didn't help the kurds or the bozniaks, and they won't help you or I.



  • @tufty said:

    What I'm saying, as is pretty much anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together

    There's your problem. You're supposed to keep them in your head.



  • Incorrect. You're supposed to use them.



  • Very much this. You need much more than scattered resistance by a disliked group to counter state-organized murder.



  • I love that whole "You'll never be able to defend yourself, so you should just give up and die" attitude. You guys must be a real hit at family gatherings. Probably making Zoloft a lot of money, too.



  • Yeah yeah yeah. And when the feds come kicking down your door, you'll hand over your guns like all the rest.



  • :rolleyes:

    The United States wouldn't even exist if everyone in 1776 had your attitude.


  • BINNED

    @mott555 said:

    The United States wouldn't even exist if everyone in 1776 had your attitude.

    Only that now you will need tanks and drones and anti-aircraft carriers to have a fair fight like what you could get in 1776.

    @tufty said:

    Guns wouldn't have helped the jews, they didn't help the kurds or the bozniaks, and they won't help you or I.

    Very nicely put! Iraq is hardly the only example. Look at what selling unmatched guns to the opposition in Syria has achieved, just more casualty. When dealing with a brutal state-run army, there is nothing that civilians could achieve with guns. North Korea will Nuke its entire nation if they decide not to cry for their dear leader.



  • @dse said:

    Only that now you will need tanks and drones and anti-aircraft carriers to have a fair fight like what you could get in 1776.

    Afghanistan has done pretty well against tanks and drones, against two different world powers even. Fighting a superior force is not a hopeless cause like some are trying to claim.


  • BINNED

    @mott555 said:

    Afghanistan has done pretty well against tanks and drones, against two different world powers even.

    :wtf: done well? Afghanistan is in a constant war since forever. All the nations resources have gone and still go to fund random militia forces. If you want a fight that never ends pick one with a big power.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @mott555 said:

    Afghanistan has done pretty well against tanks and drones, against two different world powers even.

    To be fair, America decided they had to fight another war at the same time. They could have left Iraq to fester in its own juices just fine, but the US Administration of the time decided that doing one thing well wasn't their style and that doing two things badly was much more them.



  • I wager that's exactly what would happen if we had some kind of civil war. We're still (nominally) the world superpower. If we start fighting ourselves, it wouldn't surprise me if other nations jumped on us as well. And at that point, whoever's in charge of whatever America is at the time will probably say "I'm done fighting rednecks in Iowa and Missouri, better deal with these other guys who have fighters and tanks first."

    Actually, I strongly suspect they wouldn't even bother with Iowa and Missouri. Just not enough people there to be worth the effort. I think Balkanization is the most likely outcome of any hypothetical civil war in today's United States.



  • And that would be a bad thing how?

    Seriously. Internet hard guy stuff aside, if you find yourself with numbers of armed-to-the-teeth military kicking your door down and pointing big, loaded automatic weapons at you, are you going to :

    1 - Pull out your hunting rifle / target pistol / etc and "go out in a blaze of glory" shouting "my cold dead hands, motherfuckers!"
    3 - Shit yourself.

    Second situation. large numbers of armed-to-the-teeth military have just kicked your next-door-neighbour's front door down. Do you :

    1 - Pull out your hunting rifle and go full Rambo on those motherfuckers
    3 - Wait for the TV people to arrive, then say "I can't understand it, he was always very polite, kept himself to himself...."



  • You're retarded and clearly live in a different reality than I do. There's enough organization among the local gun clubs here that we wouldn't be sitting oblivious at home waiting to get picked off one-by-one. And considering the majority of local police and National Guard would be on my side of the fight, there'd be a hell of a lot of resistance.

    We aren't New York City here. A lot of people out here in flyover country know how to be self-sufficient. And while we may be rednecks, we aren't the retarded single-digit IQ rednecks the media and certain political parties like to pretend we are.



  • @dse said:

    :wtf: done well? Afghanistan is in a constant war since forever. All the nations resources have gone and still go to fund random militia forces. If you want a fight that never ends pick one with a big power.

    Whoosh. Afghanistan is a crap country, always has been, probably always will be. But if even they, armed with sticks and rifles and makeshift bombs, can hold off the world powers with tanks and stealth bombers, what do you think 10 million+ well-armed American citizens could do against a hypothetical government-gone-bad?



  • @mott555 said:

    what do you think 10 million+ well-armed American citizens could do against a hypothetical government-gone-bad?

    End up as a big pile of corpses. Or shit themselves.


  • BINNED

    @mott555 said:

    what do you think 10 million+ well-armed American citizens could do against a hypothetical government-gone-bad?

    You clearly have never have dealt with one. If you value your life, and your family's you will know the answer: you will immigrate. Yes, like a nice little coward.

    @mott555 said:

    We aren't New York City here. A lot of people out here in flyover country know how to be self-sufficient. And while we may be rednecks, we aren't the retarded single-digit IQ rednecks the media and certain political parties like to pretend we are.

    I am not against guns and I love rednecks for this attitude. Just do not try to make up crazy excuses for guns. guns should be regulated: make them more expensive and do not sell them to college student who have not paid their student loan, or have not used their penis to fuck. Make it more difficult to get in cities.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dse said:

    You clearly have never have dealt with one. If you value your life, and your family's you will know the answer: you will immigrateemigrate. Yes, like a nice little coward.

    FTFY­



  • <grammar> Nazi!



  • @mott555 said:

    There's enough organization among the local gun clubs here that we wouldn't be sitting oblivious at home waiting to get picked off one-by-one

    Funny thing is, you see, when a government moves on insurgents, it doesn't generally phone them up to say

    Hey, we're gonna come and clamp down on you next Tuesday at 18:07, if that's OK with you.

    They kick doors down in a concerted manner at 3am. You don't get a chance to organise, because the first thing you know you're either handcuffed in an orange suit, or you've got a bullet through your head. As for the local police and / or national guard? You're a terrorist and a cop killer, motherfucker. You don't get no leniency or support from them, if they're even involved.



  • @mott555 said:

    Whoosh. Afghanistan is a crap country, always has been, probably always will be. But if even they, armed with sticks and rifles and makeshift bombs, can hold off the world powers with tanks and stealth bombers, what do you think 10 million+ well-armed American citizens could do against a hypothetical government-gone-bad?

    Afghanistan also doesn't have a powerful government. It's a failed state - no wonder that there are insurgents you can't get rid of.



  • @dse said:

    You clearly have never have dealt with one. If you value your life, and your family's you will know the answer: you will immigrate. Yes, like a nice little coward.

    Emigrate where? America's still the most free country. We'd be giving up a lot by going anywhere else in the world. Not to mention the cost of packing up and traveling thousands of miles.

    @dse said:

    Just do not try to make up crazy excuses for guns.

    It's not a crazy excuse. It has a historical basis for it. The Founders even wrote about it, given what they'd just gone through.

    @dse said:

    guns should be regulated

    You should read up on current gun regulations. We are currently over-regulated in ways that don't make sense, mostly because these regulations were all written up by anti-gun politicians who don't know the difference between a Pop-Tart and a .50 BMG.

    • Why is a rifle with a 16-inch barrel okay, but one with a 15-inch barrel worth 10 years in federal prison?
    • Why is it perfectly okay to open-carry a handgun, but putting a jacket over it without first being raked over the coals by "training" and "permitting" requirements is illegal and dangerous?
    • Why is a machine gun manufactured in 1985 perfectly okay for civilian ownership, but one manufactured in 1986 is dangerous and illegal?
    • Why is it illegal to remove the stock from my rifle or put a shorter barrel in it, yet if I had another rifle which is physically identical in every way except the original Form 4473 calls it a pistol, those things would be fine?
    • Why is it illegal for a pistol to touch your shoulder?
    • Why do certain states think flash hiders are scary and ban them? They're actually pretty useless...
    • Why do we require mufflers on cars, but make them expensive and difficult to acquire for firearms?
    • Why does a Form 4473 ask me for my race? Is it so certain races can be discriminated against when they attempt to purchase a firearm?
    • Why is it okay to own a foreign-made firearm, but only if all but 10 of the parts are first replaced with American-made parts?

    @dse said:

    make them more expensive

    Let's just arbitrarily make things we don't like more expensive! :wtf:

    @dse said:

    do not sell them to college student who have not paid their student loan

    Let's have the government step in and manage everyone's finances for them! Clearly our government has the funds to take on this massive project!

    @dse said:

    or have not used their penis to fuck

    What is this I don't even

    @dse said:

    Make it more difficult to get in cities.

    Like Chicago? Where it's damn near impossible to buy one through legal means, but you can easily buy a black market one from a gang member? Where gun homicide is still through the roof? Or how about New Jersey, where a woman who tried to follow the law and legally purchase a firearm to defend herself from a violent ex-boyfriend was killed by said ex-boyfriend while waiting for a pistol purchase permit to make its way through the bureaucracy?

    It seems you would agree with Ben Carson who once basically said that you don't have the right to defend yourself with a firearm if you happen to live in a city, but it's fine for rural folk! :wtf:

    @tufty said:

    There's enough organization among the local gun clubs here that we wouldn't be sitting oblivious at home waiting to get picked off one-by-one

    Funny thing is, you see, when a government moves on insurgents, it doesn't generally phone them up to say

    Hey, we're gonna come and clamp down on you next Tuesday at 18:07, if that's OK with you.

    They kick doors down in a concerted manner at 3am. You don't get a chance to organise, because the first thing you know you're either handcuffed in an orange suit, or you've got a bullet through your head. As for the local police and / or national guard? You're a terrorist and a cop killer, motherfucker. You don't get no leniency or support from them, if they're even involved.

    How would they know which doors to kick in first? Chances are good they'd be kicking in a lot of doors of a lot of non-gun-owners, and that would piss off a lot of people. As for the police, notice how few police are enforcing the new SAFE Act in New York? Basically none. Good luck getting them to go door-to-door on even more extreme measures. Or how about Colorado with their standard-capacity magazine ban that the police refuse to enforce? Think they'll go door-to-door? Except for a few shitholes like Baltimore or D.C., door-to-door gun confiscation wouldn't go anywhere, because there's a huge disconnect between those in charge at the federal level, and those who would do the actual work.



  • @mott555 said:

    How would they know which doors to kick in first?

    Your paperwork has an address on it. You are member of a gun club, who presumably know your address. You shout your stupid mouth off on the internet, browse gun-related sites, all under NSA observation. How much gun related / political view metadata do you need for a malicious government to have before they start pulling people in quietly / kicking in doors?

    Hell, you don't even need a malicious government. Form yourself a little insurgent group, start standing up to the government, gun in hand. "We're not paying your taxes, the first fucker comes up here asking for them gets a cap in the ass." See how long it lasts.

    It's hilarious. You seem to think that your little metal toys somehow give you some sort of protection from the big bad "man", when in fact they're being used as a smokescreen to hide the fact that the man is / has already sold all your actual rights to nameless corporations. And you don't get any personal protection either - as n example, you've got almost exactly the same odds of being mugged (about 1 in 1000) in the US as you have in the UK, except that in the US, between 30 and 50 percent of the time it will be done at gunpoint.

    And you call me retarded.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @mott555 said:

    Why is a rifle with a 16-inch barrel okay, but one with a 15-inch barrel worth 10 years in federal prison?

    Well, in actuality you can own it but you have to pay a $200 tax. So they don't even care about safety or anything like that. Just taxing you if the barrel is 15.9999999999999".

    Which, really, is even more retarded.


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