Spaces in file paths, part 7.38*10^89

TimeBandit

http://askubuntu.com/questions/454253/how-to-run-32-bit-app-in-ubuntu-64-bit

I have a few wtfs involving mixing and matching 64 bit and 32 bit on centos if you want them. Actually just one but its a lot of fun.

Where is the

there ?
Wanna run 32bits executable on a 64bits Debian-based OS ?

sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install libc6:i386 libncurses5:i386 libstdc++6:i386 (or whatever 32bits library you want)

Please tell me your wtfs involving CentOS.

TimeBandit

@DogsB said:

You've never tried mixing and matching 64bit with 32bit have you?

I certainly have.

Android SDK on 64bits Debian :
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update
apt-get install libstdc++6:i386 libgcc1:i386 zlib1g:i386 libncurses5:i386

Voilà !

On my Debian machine I have /lib and /lib64. Makes perfect sens

Edit : and I've run 32bits Flash on 64bits Firefox before Adobe got off their ass and made a 64bits version

DogsB

Yes but windows does it out of the box. I don't have to resort to any command line nonsense to get it working.

I haven't had any problems getting any of my tools from windows 7 32bit to migrate forward to windows 10 64bit actually. Some of those tools I've had on winxp 32bit

In linux you can't go from 32bit to 64bit without any skullduggery.

DogsB

@TimeBandit said:

@DogsB said:
You've never tried mixing and matching 64bit with 32bit have you?

I certainly have.

Android SDK on 64bits Debian :
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update
apt-get install libstdc++6:i386 libgcc1:i386 zlib1g:i386 libncurses5:i386

Voilà !

On my Debian machine I have /lib and /lib64. Makes perfect sens

Edit : and I've run 32bits Flash on 64bits Firefox before Adobe got off their ass and made a 64bits version

Don't forget to apt-get install your 64bit libraries too. Also be careful that you link to the correct version segfaults are a pain the hole to track down.

TimeBandit

@DogsB said:

Also be careful that you link to the correct version segfaults are a pain the hole to track down

That's the job of your compiler/linker
For GCC you pass it either -m64 or -m32 to specify 64bits or 32bits.

DogsB

@TimeBandit said:

@DogsB said:
Also be careful that you link to the correct version segfaults are a pain the hole to track down

That's the job of your compiler/linker
For GCC you pass it either -m64 or -m32 to specify 64bits or 32bits.

Still not getting around the whole you have to go off and get those things manually. Then double check they're on the build machine too. On windows you have everything there already.

TimeBandit

@DogsB said:

On windows you have everything there already.

Windows 7 and 8 64bits Hard Drive requirements : 20 gigs

Minimum Debian 64bits install with desktop : 5gigs

You could have a Linux distro with everything installed by default, but I prefer to only install the parts I need.

You seem to prefer to have everything, and the kitchen sink.

To each is own

LB_

You had to do what with the chair?

DogsB

@TimeBandit said:

@DogsB said:
On windows you have everything there already.

Windows 7 and 8 64bits Hard Drive requirements : 20 gigs

Minimum Debian 64bits install with desktop : 5gigs

I see you're doing apples to bananas comparsions already. please continue.

@TimeBandit said:

You could have a Linux distro with everything installed by default, but I prefer to only install the parts I need.

You seem to prefer to have everything, and the kitchen sink.

Yes with windows I live with the unrelenting horror that is a working OS with little configuration. Oh my gosh it takes up 3% of my harddrive. I quite like having the whole shebang without spending hours of life looking for the correct library to compile against.
@TimeBandit said:

To each is own

Welcome to adulthood.

TimeBandit

@DogsB said:

I see you're doing apples to bananas comparsions already. please continue.

Just showing the reason why not everybody wants everything and the kitchen sink installed.
But hey, bananas !
@DogsB said:

I quite like having the whole shebang without spending hours of life looking for the correct library to compile against.

Of course you don't have to.
Proof :

Edit : also

@DogsB said:

Welcome to adulthood.

So you're 18 (or 21) ?
Congratulation. Now you can have

Tsaukpaetra

@TimeBandit said:

only install the parts I need.

Welcome, to Tiny Core!

DogsB

@TimeBandit said:

Just showing the reason why not everybody wants everything and the kitchen sink installed. But hey, bananas !

Well if you have hours to be fucking around looking for dependancies to compile the version of whatever software you need because the newest version doesn't have that crippling bug that is hampering your workflow and the newest isn't availbe in the repositories good for you. Remember to document the process so that other people can replicate it and have fun duplicating it production servers.

@TimeBandit said:

Of course you don't have to.Proof : Edit : also

Can't help but notice that they're exe's that have probably installed everything necessary to run or compile against. It's pretty fucking weird that you keep screenshots of dependancies lying around.

@TimeBandit said:

So you're 18 (or 21) ?Congratulation. Now you can have

My tiple is absinthe. get it while you're at the bar will you. I left my wallet at home.

TimeBandit

@DogsB said:

Well if you have hours to be fucking around looking for dependancies to compile the version of whatever software you need because the newest version doesn't have that crippling bug that is hampering your workflow and the newest isn't availbe in the repositories good for you.

The last time I needed to compile some software I use was something like 10 years ago.

Quit spreading your FUD

DogsB

@Tsaukpaetra said:

Welcome, to Tiny Core!

Funny story I named dropped that and made up a month long investigation bullshit to get me out of having to investigate linux and got to use boxfuse instead. Yes I've sold my soul to them. I'll shill for anyone who abstracts away linux for me.

DogsB

gnuplot 5.0 on centos 5. I needed some shiny feature from it but I think centos was stuck on 3.cunty fuck.

Tsaukpaetra

@DogsB said:

boxfuse

Ah, but Tiny Core is more than just a packaged java container. ;)

loopback0

@TimeBandit said:

Windows 7 and 8 64bits Hard Drive requirements : 20 gigs

Minimum Debian 64bits install with desktop : 5gigs

Right and who even has a hard drive or SSD small enough these days that 15GB even matters?

TimeBandit

@loopback0 said:

Right and who even has a hard drive or SSD small enough these days that 15GB even matters?

You always need more space for your porn collection

DogsB

@Tsaukpaetra said:

@DogsB said:
boxfuse

Ah, but Tiny Core is more than just a packaged java container. ;)

I know and the tweaker in me actually likes the idea of playing with it but the time and effort that it requires has to be employed fixing the crippling incompetence of the outsourced work =( and I've decided to invest my time in learning the ageing tech we're stuck with inside out or persona...

Tsaukpaetra

raises hand slightly
32 Gb SSD FTW!

Filed under: Free space after install (and before creating the pagefile): 3 Gb

Slapout

Eclipse is still better than Lotus Notes...

TimeBandit

@Slapout said:

~~Eclipse~~Anything is still better than Lotus Notes...

FTFY

kilroo

@LB_ said:

As I said, I don't like "workspaces" - I'd like to have multiple projects open at once even if they aren't even remotely related to each other, and not in an 'all or nothing' fashion.

For what it's worth, that would be "Working Sets" in Eclipsese.

@LB_ said:

What if I want to unplug my flash drive and only some of the projects are on it? Is there an easy way to 'close' projects?

Yep. Select projects, right click, "close projects." (edit: someone beat me to that...)

@powerlord said:

While you can do it that way, it's no different than adding a bunch of unrelated projects to an ad hoc Visual Studio Solution

I can kinda see where you're coming from; I hadn't really thought about that before. Actually I hadn't thought about making a solution containing unrelated projects before.

@blakeyrat said:

conceptually you could have two projects that don't share any dependencies or code, but still belong in the same (what Visual Studio would call) solution.

Also sounds like a job for a Working Set.

I thought I remembered reading an article recently recommending the single-workspace, multiple-working-set approach, but I can't find it again. Due to how they work, workspaces are really better suited to different Eclipse configurations than to grouping projects, in my opinion. It kinda seems to me like working sets have gone unnoticed by some people because the classic solution to the problems they solve was either multiple workspaces, or...um...a bigger hassle.

DogsB

Lotus Notes is built on Eclipse...

@kilroo said:

I thought I remembered reading an article recently recommending the single-workspace, multiple-working-set approach,

With projects that span 50 + plugins across multiple branches it becomes easier to change workspaces but in general I agree with multiple working set philosophy.

bugmenot

@anonymous234 said:

What bothers me about both Eclipse and NetBeans is that they seem tremendously overengineered.

They both actually advertise themselves as general-purpose platforms.

I can only speak to Eclipse, but that's why it seems tremendously overengineered. I was once working on a project that built a non-trivial GUI application on top of Eclipse... We should have used anything else. Even writing our own GUI library from scratch to base our software on would have been faster and less painful.

Lorne Kates

Can you emulate a 64-bit machine (VM) on a 32-bit host?

LB_

VirtualBox can't. It can't even emulate 64bit VM on a 64bit host unless you have hardware virtualization support. On my 64bit machine I can only run 32bit VMs.

DogsB

Virtual box and vmware usually throw a shit fit.

Lorne Kates

@DogsB said:

Virtual box and vmware usually throw a shit fit.

Boo.

And now for your Friday "that's interesting":

Suppose you wanted to prove the Universe was a simulation. All you need to do is posit a testable in-universe phenomenon that can't be exist in the host universe, and observe that phenomenon.

As a very simplistic example, suppose in the outer universe, parallel processors were impossible. If you wanted to process 2 instructions, it would take 2 units of time.

But in our universe, due to the rules, you are able to build a parallel processor. Everything says that processing 2 instructions will take 1 unit of time. But when you actually execute the experiment, 2 instructions take 2 units of time, because you're constrained by the limitations of the outer-universe's rules.

You've now proven the Universe is a simulation.

blakeyrat

Congratulations. Now get back to work. That deep fat fryer ain't gonna clean itself.

Lorne Kates

@blakeyrat said:

Congratulations. Now get back to work. That deep fat fryer ain't gonna clean itself.

I can simulate a universe in which it will.

Tsaukpaetra

This would work, except knowledge of the cage doesn't necessarily equate to knowledge of outside the cage.

In our VM model, this is like a program in the vm trying to execute a 64 bit opcode and proclaiming it's a vm because the opcode failed.

Only designers that want the VM to be able to know it's a VM would allow such logic.

Essentially, you need input from the outside in order to determine if you're on the inside.

Jarry

i see your white netbeans and raise it with a darker version:

FrostCat

@TimeBandit said:

Assuming system32 already contained the 32bits DLLs, what is the reasoning behind changin it to contain 64bits DLLs ?

I don't know I could do the topic justice--you can find the reasoning by googling for it. Basically MS didn't have any real good choices, so they picked the one that would cause the fewest compatibility issues.

FrostCat

@TimeBandit said:

I certainly have.

In Windows, you can't load a 32-bit DLL into a 64-bit executable, or vice versa. (Generally speaking, that is.)

FrostCat

@Lorne_Kates said:

I can simulate a universe in which it will.

And your boss will give you your pay in that simulated universe, not this one.

dkf

@Lorne_Kates said:

I can simulate a universe in which it will.

But it won't help you clean the fryer you've got to deal with.

(INB4 after Enlightenment, COMPLAIN!)

anonymous234

How would you even know the rules of outside the universe?

MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living -
NEO (politely): Excuse me, please.
MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo?
NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics?
MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo?
NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics!
MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo?
(Pause.)
NEO: ...in the Matrix.
MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies.
(Pause.)
NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook?
MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math.

Tsaukpaetra

And hence . The contained doesn't need to know (and probably won't be told) the rules of the container.

blakeyrat

So basically, you can't have plumbing if you want to be enlightened.

bugmenot

@Lorne_Kates said:

Can you emulate a 64-bit machine (VM) on a 32-bit host?

Yes.

In the distant past I decided to this with a (non-KVM) qemu. I had accidentally downloaded the 64-bit version of some Linux LiveCD. I had the idea that using qemu to run the code in the LiveCD might be faster and/or easier than downloading the correct ISO.

Turns out that this was dog slow. I could have downloaded the correct ISO in the 1/10th time it took to get to the KDE load screen.

blakeyrat

In my own personal mental rewrite of The Matrix, the robots get power from fusion generators (as mentioned in an aside), and the reason they don't kill humans is because it's deep down in their programming that they can't. Like Asimov robots.

My personal mental rewrite of The Matrix is better than the movie on the screen. Fuck that thing.

Spanky587

@Lorne_Kates said:

@blakeyrat said:
Congratulations. Now get back to work. That deep fat fryer ain't gonna clean itself.

I can simulate a universe in which it will.

Somewhere, there's a parallel universe where it already has.

powerlord

In Linux, you can't load a 32-bit SO into a 64-bit executable, or vice versa.

I'm guessing this is a universal convention.

Incidentally, since someone mentioned installing 32-bit libraries on 64-bit systems on Debian earlier... some common 32-bit libraries already exist in the 64-bit packaging system without having to add the 32-bit archtecture.

These are generally named lib32whatever such as lib32stdc++6 being the 32-bit version of libstdc++6.

FrostCat

@powerlord said:

I'm guessing this is a universal convention.

At least across these two platforms. :) Don't know what MacOS does--I'm assuming it's either all 32-bit or all 64-bit.

@powerlord said:

These are generally named lib32whatever such as lib32stdc++6 being the 32-bit version of libstdc++6.

Linux chose to put all libraries in one place and name them differently; MS chose to keep the names across bitness and put them into different directories. One reason, of course, is the aforementioned back-compat due to badly written programs: a program that calls "c:\windows\system32\notepad.exe" will blow up if notepad.exe is renamed to notepad32 and notepad64. Also, if you have system32\notepad and system64\notepad, you will always get the 32-bit version. By having system32 actually have the os-bitness-correct versions, "c:\system32\notepad.exe" always gets you the native notepad. It's ugly, sure, but it works.

powerlord

@FrostCat said:

Linux chose to put all libraries in one place and name them differently; MS chose to keep the names across bitness and put them into different directories. One reason, of course, is the aforementioned back-compat due to badly written programs: a program that calls "c:\windows\system32\notepad.exe" will blow up if notepad.exe is renamed to notepad32 and notepad64. Also, if you have system32\notepad and system64\notepad, you will always get the 32-bit version. By having system32 actually have the os-bitness-correct versions, "c:\system32\notepad.exe" always gets you the native notepad. It's ugly, sure, but it works.

Note, these are just the package names. The actual libraries use the directory name.

On a 64-bit Linux system, 64-bit libraries live in /lib/ and /usr/lib/ while 32-bit libraries live in /lib32/ and /usr/lib32/.

On a 32-bit Linux system, 32-bit libraries live in /lib/ and /usr/lib/.

FrostCat

@powerlord said:

On a 64-bit Linux system, 64-bit libraries live in /lib/ and /usr/lib/ while 32-bit libraries live in /lib32/ and /usr/lib32/.

On a 32-bit Linux system, 32-bit libraries live in /lib/ and /usr/lib/.

Ah--so essentially exactly what MS did, except that MS was constrained by the fact that "system32" already had a bitness encoded in the directory name, from the 16->32-bit transition.

But then Windows libraries generally have the same name in both versions.