Atwood continues to cry that Dicsource is too big to fail.

[Ragnax]

@cartman82 said:

Sam comes out with a nice summary of Discourse's perf problems.

which states that:

This specific example is just an illustration of the endemic issue. In React and some other frameworks you just render and don't carry around the luggage of "binding", instead you just rerender when needed. This approach means that you don't need bookeeping, the bookeeping is the feature that is killing android perf.

Oh right. Because diffing the live DOM tree against a newly cooked string and performing piecemeal updates isn't slow at all, right? Well sunshine; guess what...

No; the real problem is inefficient bookkeeping and creating multiple bindings that all update class name lists and all touch the DOM on their individual time. Change that to perform class name bindings completely in JS space and coalesce all of it using batched event handling. Then you have one single string that gets assigned directly to a node's className property once.

[blakeyrat]

The problem is using the framework in the first place instead of just writing your own damn tiny, tiny, JavaScript function that uses the only 4 commands you need to do the desired effect in the first place.

[Yamikuronue]

This part at least seems on the right track:

Thing is, we know when a post is deleted (we hit delete) ... a post becomes a whisper (never) ... turns into a wiki (wiki button clicked) and so on. We can afford some extra code for these cases, especially for huge perf gains. We really only care about 2 pages when it comes to optimising heavily (topic/topic list)

[flabdablet]

@blakeyrat said:

The problem is using the framework in the first place

Ember was named after the dull red glow that's all that remains of your phone battery after using it for five minutes.

[tar]

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion....

[loopback0]

@Maciejasjmj said:

How does that even make it into a deployed version?

Usual Discourse quality controls.

[Lorne Kates]

@blakeyrat said:

The problem is using the framework in the first place instead of just writing your own damn tiny, tiny, JavaScript function that uses the only 4 commands you need to do the desired effect in the first place.

100% agreed. But keep in mind he's saying "The framework sucks donkey catheters, so what we'll do-- get this-- is use a different framework."

[Tsaukpaetra]

@Lorne_Kates said:

donkey catheters

Well there's something you don't hear every day. I wonder if he meant if it was installed incorrectly. For some reason it is imaginable he would find that quite pleasing...

[redwizard]

@boomzilla said:

@sloosecannon said:

I actually like the latest UI version.............

I don't mind gmail's UI for dealing with email, for the most part. But @flabdablet is at least 1,000% correct about managing contacts.

Hmmm...reading that gave me this thought: will I ever see the day when @flabdablet, @boomzilla and @blakeyrat ever agree on something? If so, would that possibility open up a hole in the spacetime continuum?

[Scarlet_Manuka]

@swayde said:

It's amazing my ipad can't have disco open in two tabs without crashing...

No, it's amazing it can have it open in one tab without crashing.

[redwizard]

@dcon said:

@mott555 said:

(I may be TRWTF, but I like Yahoo's webmail interface, except that it's now so painfully slow Discourse is a rocket-powered roadrunner by comparison.)

And the fact that they can't remember shit. I like reading top-bottom/old-new. Yahoo doesn't. I change it. Close browser, open. I gave up. Yahoo wins. And their editor... where the fuck did my cursor go. Text selection can be ... interesting ... (Holey crap. This editor is better!) That said, I use it to read my email at work...

Are you possibly using IE as your browser? Those last two sound suspiciously like IE issues.

I don't use Yahoo. My wife, who's about as computer illiterate as you can get, uses Yahoo through Chrome and doesn't have these issues, or she'd ask me to fix them. ;-)

[Weng]

My company's entire collaboration model is built around Gmail reply all. It is literally mission critical.

It works just fine.

[flabdablet]

@redwizard said:

will I ever see the day when @flabdablet, @boomzilla and @blakeyrat ever agree on something? If so, would that possibility open up a hole in the spacetime continuum?

Let's find out. Summon @blakeyrat, @boomzilla:

Proposition: that it's not really about ethics in gaming journalism.

@flabdablet agrees.

[Maciejasjmj]

@redwizard said:

would that possibility open up a hole in spacetime continuum?

@flabdablet said:

Let's find out.

Sounds like a plot to a Mythbusters episode gone horribly wrong.

"Well, Jamie, it seems like with some trying you can, in fact, rip apart the fabric of reality and doom the entire galaxy to be erased from time itself. In other words, MYTH CONF--"

[flabdablet]

@Maciejasjmj said:

with some trying you can, in fact, rip apart the fabric of reality and doom the entire galaxy to be erased from time itself

No, that's this other thread.

[Yamikuronue]

@flabdablet said:

Let's find out

Low-hanging fruit: how do you feel about Discourse?

[Spanky587]

@Tsaukpaetra said:

@Lorne_Kates said:

donkey catheters

Well there's something you don't hear every day. I wonder if he meant if it was installed incorrectly. For some reason it is imaginable he would find that quite pleasing...

Incorrectly installed donkey catheters?

[boomzilla]

@flabdablet said:

Proposition: that it's not really about ethics in gaming journalism.

@flabdablet agrees.

Of course not. It's all about the Benjamins. Duh.

[Luhmann]

@boomzilla said:

It's all about the Benjamins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos

[Spanky587]

@skotl said:

we know Jeff is a bit of a dick personally, but is he actually a shitty developer too? Is all the shouting and screaming masking the fact that he doesn't know how to address the issues in the product?

You're assuming that Discourse is fixable.

[flabdablet]

@Yamikuronue said:

how do you feel about Discourse?

It's fuct.

[DogsB]

Discourse not Intercourse.

[antiquarian]

@redwizard said:

Hmmm...reading that gave me this thought: will I ever see the day when @flabdablet, @boomzilla and @blakeyrat ever agree on something? If so, would that possibility open up a hole in the spacetime continuum?

At the risk of getting a whoosh , it's happened before, at least with boomzilla and flabdablet. It just means the other side is clearly wrong. Nothing to see here, please move along.

[boomzilla]

@antiquarian said:

it's happened before, at least with boomzilla and flabdablet. It just means the other side is clearly wrong.

It's true! We both dislike Windows and like password managers.

[Tsaukpaetra]

Exactly, instead of urine, you get... something else...

[Lorne Kates]

@redwizard said:

Are you possibly using IE as your browser? Those last two sound suspiciously like IE issues.

So let me get this straight:

• Don't use Discourse on IE, because the WYSIWYG editor won't work right
• Don't use Discourse on Firefox, because the css won't work right
• Don't use Discourse on Chrome, because tabs won't work right
• Don't use Discourse on mobile anything, because nothing will work right

$> lynx https://what.thedailywtf.com

[DogsB]

@boomzilla said:

@antiquarian said:

it's happened before, at least with boomzilla and flabdablet. It just means the other side is clearly wrong.

It's true! We both dislike Windows and like password managers.

Do you both read left to right too? My Christ! You're like twins!

[aliceif]

@Lorne_Kates said:

Don't use Discourse on Firefox, because the css won't work right

Well, you can fix it with stylish!

[Lorne Kates]

I wonder if Weird Al's All About The Pentiums****strong text still holds up. It was originally written in 1999-- 16 years ago as of this date. It's chock-full of technical references centering around PCs. As someone who was into computers in 1999, I got all the jokes. And, at the time, they were all perfectly relevant.

Does it hold up? Let's find out! I've taken every line in the song. For the purposes of counting, I took out "filler" lines like "Yeah" and "Uh-huh", since they aren't relevant to the tech-worthiness of the discussion. I also coalesced duplicate lines-- such as choruses, and repeated saying of "all about the pentiums". This leaves us with 55 lines to rank. I will give each line a rank of:

1 - Still relevant
0.5 - Only partially relevant, or relevant only in spirit
0 - Not relevant to the modern world (outdated tech, lost cultural reference, etc)

Apologies for any typos, I wrote this in Excel and can't be arsed to spell check

It's all about the Pentiums, baby
Pentium is still the most common and prevelant CPU on the market. It's the gold standard, and is instantly recongnizable to even the most lay of lay-persons.


Wanna be hackers? Code crackers? Slackers
Code crackers may be iffy as far as relevance goes, but it's still a perfectly cromulant term.


Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers?
Social media and forums have taken over the chatrooms. Sure, the hardcores may still use IRC, but the insult is implying using the communication methods of the plebes.


9 to 5, chillin' at Hewlett Packard?
Yeah, fuck Hewlett Packard!


Workin' at a desk with a dumb little placard?
Hey, I brought that placard from home


Yeah, payin' the bills with my mad programming skills
Not sure if skills, in modern spelling, will be skillz, but I'll award the point


Defraggin' my hard drive for thrills
I'm going to give the point. He is claiming to do it for fun, rather than any particular purpose. And he might also be purposely inciting a DEFRAG ISN'T NEEDED flamewar.


I got me a hundred gigabytes of RAM
On the fence here. He might be talking about 100GB of hard drive space. But since he used RAM, and 100GB is enough (except to run two Discourse tabs), point.


I never feed trolls and I don't read spam
That's some good time-saving advice, Al.


Installed a T1 line in my house
While people may still technically seek out a T1 line for the uptime and reliability, a brag-point these days would be running fibre to your house. Half point for being technically still relevant though.


Always at my PC, double-clickin' on my mizouse
You can still double click a mouse. That is true. The hizzy may soon be relegated to the sole realm of rappin' granny, though. Actually, I think rappin' granny is being replaced by DubSteppin' granny, so we'll see.


Upgrade my system at least twice a day
Just as an exaggerated brag as ever.


I'm strictly plug-and-play, I ain't afraid of Y2K
Ouch, the first fall-flat. Just from the mentions of PC and mouse and all, I have to assume he's using Windows. Can you even get non-PnP compliant devices for Windows these days? You'd think the bigger brag would be hacking his own device drivers WITHOUT plug-and-play. And not being afraid of Y2K obviously doesn't hold up.


I'm down with Bill Gates, I call him "Money" for short
As of Oct 5, 2015-- Bill Gates was still rich and alive, so this counts.


I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support
That would be an egregious mis-use of Bill Gates.


You've gotta be the dumbest newbie I've ever seen
Insulting someone for their lack of knowledge stands the test of time. I question if "newbie" is still used. I've heard n00b, which I thought replaced newbie.


You've got white-out all over your screen
A classic punchline. But that's the problem. It's classic-- very old. It plays on the idea that someone is more familiar with inks and typewriters than a computer. Though someone may be unfamiliar with computers now, and in the future-- it is highly unlikely they'd be more familiar with the antiquated technologies this joke relies on. Half points.


You think your Commodore 64 is really neato
Again a touch call. A Commodore 64 WOULD be really neat-o. It's so far out of fashion it's douch/retro chic again. There's whole hacker subcultures around getting weird and wonderful things to work on a C64. But the basis of the insult-- that someone is earnestly using a massively out of date piece of tech-- still holds


What kinda chip you got in there, a Dorito?
No, if it's a C64, he'd obviously have the one chip available, a MOS Technology 6510/8500, not a corn chip--- oooo, wait. I get it. Ha.


You're usin' a 286? Don't make me laugh
Unlike the C64 reference, this one fails, because it's acknowloging the actual tech the person is using. Very few will remember the days when that one model number determined your l33t skillz, and the bigger number was better (even though 8086 is technically bigger than all the others, but that's a special case). Ironically, that whole point of bragging came to an end when instead of a 586, we got the Pentium and a tidal wave of confusing naming and numbering schemes.


Your Windows boots up in what, a day and a half?
Indeed, a modern Windows might take that much time to come online on a 286. The long boot time of an OS is still a valid point of insult.


You could back up your whole hard drive on a floppy diskette
Even the most lowest grade of PHONES has more storage space than a floppy diskette-- even if anyone knew what a floppy was. A relic joke that's too much of a stretch to make sense.


You're the biggest joke on the Internet
It's true. You are.


Your database is a disaster
Some odd wording for the benefit of fitting in the line-- all the databases you administer are in a disasterous state. I'll award it, since it still holds.


You're waxin' your modem, tryin' to make it go faster
I'm sure the original intent was for a personal, 56k modem. But people still use cable modems and DSL modems, and "waxing your modem" sounds like a masturbation joke, so point awarded.


Hey fella, I bet you're still livin' in your parents' cellar
For some reason, every time I hear this line I think cellar is attic, but then remember cellar is basement. That has nothing to do with the point this line gets. Just me rambling.


Downloadin' pictures of Sarah Michelle Gellar
Given the massive Buffy fan following that still exists-- and the creepy way people obsess over how SMG' look changed over the course of the years the show was on the air-- still an apt point.


And postin' "Me too!" like some brain-dead AOL-er
Hmm, until I actually read this lyric, I always thought it was "And posting me, too, like some bread-dead AOLer". As in the person is posting inane comments to Al. But "Me, too!" also makes perfect sense, implying the person is a mindless parrot echoing useless things and not contributing to any discussion. The AOL quip is, surprisingly still accurate, as AOL is still in buisness and has subscribers. I can only assume their entire subscriber base are from people who are literally brain dead, and whose executors have not yet cancelled thier credit cards and services.


I should do the world a favor and cap you like Old Yeller
Ouch. Death threats on the Internet are still, if not more, relevant. This line always did stand out as a bit out of place. All the others are insults at the person's tech and intelligence. This one's a straight up I WILL MURDER YOU line. Then again, arguments escallating to death threats at the drop of the hat are, again, very relevant.


You're just about as useless as jpegs to Hellen Keller
LOL. Still one of the best lines.


Uh, uh, loggin' in now
You can log into websites. You just can never log out, apparently.


Wanna run wit my crew, hah?
This sounds like legit gangsta talk, but then again I'm not sure if legit gangsta talk is legit gangsta talk. Half points.


Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?
Though Cyber-x has taken on a second wind, thanks to inept and out of touch officials and administrators ressurecting it for CYBER TERRORISM, it is firmly in the "no longer relevant" category.


They call me the king of the spreadsheets
Office 2015 has Excel, and it's still the corner-stone lynch-pin foundation of may business' complicator-systems. So A+


Got 'em printed out on my bedsheets
This is so inane, I don't think it can ever go out of date.


My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks
Yes, more clocks == faster.


But it was obsolete before I opened the box
And even more relevant these days, with the ever faster lifecycle of tech.


You say you've had your desktop for over a week?
Enough people still use desktops instead of laptops, so OK.


Throw that junk away, man, it's an antique
Straight forward


Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great
I always found it odd that a week-old desktop is obsolete, but it takes a month for a laptop to go stale. You'd think it'd be the other way around.


If you could use a nice, heavy paperweight
Many reviewers still tout "lighter weight than previous model" as a benefit in laptop reviews.


My digital media is write-protected
This one is just weird. Which digital media? He added that sticky tab to his floppy disc? All CDs are, in theory, write protected (did anyone ever get a reusable CD-R to work properly)? You wouldn't write protect your hard drive, as much as use a sane stack of access controls. And no one in the history of ever intentionally flicked on the write-protect switch USB stick. Fail.


Every file inspected, no viruses detected
Viruses are still a valid fear that should be looked for. What about SQL injections, though, Al? HUH?


I beta tested every operation system
Though "beta test" these days seems to mean "you pay for a pre-release version and we ignore your bug reports". Still, there's a billion and a half versions of Android and Linux out there being forked all the time.


Gave props to some, and others? I dissed 'em
Half points, again, because I know know if props and disses are still common slang.


While your computer's crashin', mine's multitaskin'
Half points. Computer crashing is still a good insult. But multi-tasking isn't really a braggable feature any more. I mean, sure, some phone OS are TECHNICALLY multitaskers, but the spirit here was running something like Windows with alt-tab, instead of DOS which was running one program at a time.


It does all my work without me even askin'
I'm sorry, SIRI, I can't do that.


Got a flat-screen monitor forty inches wide wide
Surprisingly, still a good brag. Right, @wood? Sidenote: Frank still has you beat, since he got a Chromecast.


I believe that your says "Etch-A-Sketch" on the side
Etch-a-Sketch is a retro toy, but I guess some people would get it. It isn't completely out of date.


In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user
32-bit world? What a backwards hick jerk! 64 bit or GTFO!!!!!!!


You've got your own newsgroup, "alt.total-loser"
Yes, I know, some hanger-ons still use newsgroups. But the vast majority of people today wouldn't know what a newsgroup is, let alone the naming conventions of it.


Your motherboard melts when you try to send a fax
Fax machines are another one of those quaint technologies that some people still use, but certainly isn't common enough to be an insult.


Where'd you get your CPU, in a box of Cracker Jacks?
Mmm, sugar and fat with a toy.


Play me online? Well, you know that I'll beat you
He doesn't specify a game, so I assume that "play me" doesn't mean "engage me in a video game", but rather "tease, mock or take advantage of". Seems still modern enough to get a full point.


If I ever meet you I'll control-alt-delete you
The three-finger salute works, and to use techies might still translate into "a gesture that can be use to log off or shut down a system". To the average user, they've probably never used that key combo, or know that it used to just hard stop reboot a machine.

#TOTAL RANKING#
55 lines results in a score of 43, meaning this song is still 78.2% relevant.

Good job, Al! Let's check in again in another 16 years.

[tar]

@Lorne_Kates said:

Don't use Discourse on IE, because the WYSIWYG editor won't work right
Don't use Discourse on Firefox, because the css won't work right
Don't use Discourse on Chrome, because tabs won't work right
Don't use Discourse on mobile anything, because nothing will work right

Don't use Discourse.

[aliceif]

+Reasonable

[hungrier]

@Lorne_Kates said:

Sidenote: Frank still has you beat, since he got a Chromecast.

Not sure about this one. Frank's TV wouldn't have been HDMI capable when he originally bought it, and we don't know about any TV he may have bought since then.

[Lorne Kates]

@hungrier said:

@Lorne_Kates said:

Sidenote: Frank still has you beat, since he got a Chromecast.

Not sure about this one. Frank's TV wouldn't have been HDMI capable when he originally bought it, and we don't know about any TV he may have bought since then.

Frank hooked his Chromecast up to a [url=http://www.hdfury.com/]HD Fury[/url], and thus used the RGB-in ports.

[blakeyrat]

Goddamned, you need a job.

@Lorne_Kates said:

Pentium is still the most common and prevelant CPU on the market.

Wait, what?

Even ignoring the Qualcomm shit (because it's usually not branded separately from the device its in), the market features basically ONLY the Core, Xeon from Intel (and the FX, foobar-ron CPUs from AMD). Where would you even buy a Pentium right now? Elementary school surplus sale, maybe?

@Lorne_Kates said:

Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers?

What did you score this as? Facebook has chatrooms, as does Google+ and several mobile apps, but you seem to think it's not relevant anymore.

@Lorne_Kates said:

I got me a hundred gigabytes of RAM On the fence here. He might be talking about 100GB of hard drive space.

No you idiot. He meant what he said. He's exaggerating wildly, which is the style he's imitating. (Those rap artists who pen songs that are just bragging about questionable things they've done or have.)

@Lorne_Kates said:

Upgrade my system at least twice a day Just as an exaggerated brag as ever.

Oh but now you understand the concept of "exaggeration".

@Lorne_Kates said:

Very few will remember the days when that one model number determined your l33t skillz, and the bigger number was better (even though 8086 is technically bigger than all the others, but that's a special case).

That's why us Mac users with the 68040s were basically top of the heap, but then took a horrible fall when Apple switched us all to PPC 604s. Oh wait, that's utterly bullshit.

@Lorne_Kates said:

we got the Pentium and a tidal wave of confusing naming and numbering schemes.

The Pentium, which you seem to think is still sold...

[TimeBandit]

@blakeyrat said:

Where would you even buy a Pentium right now? Elementary school surplus sale, maybe?

Apr 18

Intel® Processors for PC, Laptops, Servers, and AI | Intel®

Find Intel's processors and microprocessors including computer processors for PCs, desktops, laptops and servers. Designed to provide top processing power.

[blakeyrat]

Ok, so they still exist? I guess.

I'd need to see some evidence they are still "the most common and prevalent CPU on the market", though. Because that's garbage. I didn't even know they still existed until I clicked that link.

[Lorne Kates]

@blakeyrat said:

Goddamned, you need a job.

I have one. I'm just doing this instead.

How's World of Warships going?

@blakeyrat said:

Even ignoring the Qualcomm shit (because it's usually not branded separately from the device its in), the market features basically ONLY the Core, Xeon from Intel (and the FX, foobar-ron CPUs from AMD). Where would you even buy a Pentium right now? Elementary school surplus sale, maybe?

I go to Dell. I buy a computer. Right there:

http://i.imgur.com/eyrQAWc.png

I'll grant you it might not be "the most common". What I meant was "of computer users, if you asked them to name a CPU, they'll most commonly say Pentium. Your mother knows what a Pentium is. If you show the average person the Pentium logo, they'll know what it is because it's plastered on their computer case. If you show them the Intel logo, they'll think it's the Pentium logo."

@blakeyrat said:

What did you score this as? Facebook has chatrooms, as does Google+ and several mobile apps, but you seem to think it's not relevant anymore.

0.5. Chat is still a feature commonly used, yes, but mostly IM and direct messaging. People don't really go to "a chat website" and enter "a chat room" anymore. The concept is still there (Hangouts, multi-person skype, game lounges), but the term itself is antiquated.

@blakeyrat said:

No you idiot. He meant what he said. He's exaggerating wildly, which is the style he's imitating. (Those rap artists who pen songs that are just bragging about questionable things they've done or have.)

Yes, I know, as I pointed out below. But since "RAM" and "Hard drive space" are sometimes used interchangably by the tech illiterate, I couldn't for sure tell which of the two he meant. If hard drive, out of date. If RAM, relevant. I decided that, since the rest of the song is technically accurate, he was indeed talking about RAM, and thus awarded the point for this one.

@blakeyrat said:

Oh but now you understand the concept of "exaggeration".

I understand it a BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN YOU!

@blakeyrat said:

That's why us Mac users with the 68040s were basically top of the heap, but then took a horrible fall when Apple switched us all to PPC 604s. Oh wait, that's utterly bullshit.

Sorry, we're talking real computers here, not playtime computers like 1999-era iMacs.

Go get a PENTIUM, newbie.

@blakeyrat said:

The Pentium, which you seem to think is still sold...

[blakeyrat]

@Lorne_Kates said:

How's World of Warships going?

Pfft. This work laptop doesn't have the GPU to run it.

@Lorne_Kates said:

What I meant was "of computer users, if you asked them to name a CPU, they'll most commonly say Pentium.

Say what the fuck you mean.

@Lorne_Kates said:

People don't really go to "a chat website" and enter "a chat room" anymore.

You don't maybe; thousands of people do.

[mott555]

Pentiums are still pretty common among budget builds. I forget if they're now above or below Celerons, but they're very cheap and generally more than good enough unless you're into heavy gaming.

[Yamikuronue]

I think we're coming full circle on the chatroom thing with the popularity of web collaboration apps like Slack.

[Lorne Kates]

@blakeyrat said:

Say what the fuck you mean.

Next time I promise to be much more detailed in my analysis of the technical relevance of 16 year old "Weird" Al lyrics.

@blakeyrat said:

You don't maybe; thousands of people do.

You have just as much proof of that as I do. But it's my list, so half point.

[sloosecannon]

@Lorne_Kates said:

BILLION TIMES BETTER THAN YOU!

I don't think you did, that would require a brain of at least a million times more processing capability. I don't think that's possible.

[Weng]

@blakeyrat said:

That's why us Mac users with the 68040s were basically top of the heap, but then took a horrible fall when Apple switched us all to PPC 604s. Oh wait, that's utterly bullshit.

Motorola 68k Master Race. Fuck PowerPC (I had one of the late 68k Performas with the DOS compat card)

[Arantor]

I'm 50,000 times more intelligent than you and even I don't know the answer.

Life. Don't talk to me about life.

[blakeyrat]

@Weng said:

(I had one of the late 68k Performas with the DOS compat card)

I had a Quadra 610 with that card in it, so it was also a 4 MB 486.

I played Doom on it.

Oh and Wizardry VI.

[sloosecannon]

O.O

Life is descriptive

[Arantor]

Life, loathe or ignore it, you can't like it.

<not sure if whoosh

[tar]

@blakeyrat said:

Pfft. This work laptop doesn't have the GPU to run it.

You should get one of those Pentium GPUs...

[FrostCat]

@blakeyrat said:

Where would you even buy a Pentium right now?

All kinds of laptops. Don't forget Intel currently has 5-6 "desktop" processor lines: the core i[357], and below that, Celerons and Pentiums. And then there's the Atoms. A Pentium these days is basically an i3 without the hyperthreads, although they may actually have different silicon.

[FrostCat]

@blakeyrat said:

He's exaggerating

Congratulations, btw, on finally mastering the concept. I'm going to bookmark this thread for the next time you pull a Drax.