Sorry, LaShaquilleanda, I'm not taking the chance
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If you have data, it's not prejudice.
Is it?
noun
- an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
- any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
- unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding an ethnic, racial, social, or religious group.
Seems the second definition would label as "prejudice" any opinion you form about someone or something in advance of actually meeting them / examining it first hand.
Which is admittedly pretty broad.
Dunno.
No; because the populations involved are too big.
So if you limit it to, let's say, a single neighborhood, it would be OK?
A local beat cop should be able to racially profile the people he's policing, as long as he can show the data proving he has good logical reasons for doing so?
I'm not saying you're wrong, BTW. I'm saying, I don't know. It's a gray situation.
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There is racism and there is preconception, the latter could actually make sense.
If group A has a strong association with a certain trait (say driving bad, or blowing themselves up), It makes sense to group them all together, to have a simple decision making function to use quickly when needed.
Decision making is always binary at the end;
Do I need to drive more carefully besides an Asian chick?
Do I need to avoid that corner alley with a famous gang?
Do I need to hide or relax if I see a brown man looking like myself yelling something vague in an airport?
It could determine if my genes deserve a chance to survive to the next generation, or I am a SJW fool (fooling others may be smart but those who fool themselves do not deserve a chance).
In addition, preconceptions can be fixed. If the aforementioned group A starts to criticize the trait instead of praising it behind the closed doors because it is in an old book (that should not be pursued by their own offspring of course
because no rational being wants their own offspring to blow up); If they see the problem as it is and fix it (re-write the passage in the book maybe), then maybe the next generation will have that association as a historical anecdote (like nations involved in atrocities in WWII). Only if SJW fools/racists do not muddy the water.
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A local beat cop should be able to racially profile the people he's policing, as long as he can show the data proving he has good logical reasons for doing so?
It also depends (I say) on what he does with the profiling. Stop and talk to them? Keep an eye on them? Frisk them? Arrest them on sight? Shoot them?
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Holy shit, something generally reasonable from the dragon-rat.
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YMBNH.
@blakeyrat is always right (except when he's lying).
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It also depends (I say) on what he does with the profiling. Stop and talk to them? Keep an eye on them? Frisk them? Arrest them on sight? Shoot them?
Even if you just "stop and talk to them", wouldn't it be super uncomfortable if cops "stopped and talked" with you every time they saw you?
I would feel like living in a police state.
And if they stopping me all the time and making me late led me to losing my job, I might actually end up resorting to criminal behavior and contributing to the stats that allowed racial profiling in the first place. So it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy in that sense.
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@blakeyrat said:
What's unusual about a Kenneth wanting to be called Kenny?
That he wouldn't rather use his middle name?
Not "Kenny". You're forgetting that we're talking about Germany here, the pronounciation thus becomes rather different.
"Kennet", as a result.
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Why do you do useless things?
Probably because his higher-ups make him keep using that recruiter.
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We employ 3 people whose entire job is to maintain various Google Docs sheets with project tracking information. Manually. Because modifying our tracking systems to produce the additional telemetry would be too expensive.
I hope at least one of those people is using tools to cut down the amount of time he has to spend on it to like an hour or two a day, and playing Minecraft or something for the rest of it.
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Not "Kenny". You're forgetting that we're talking about Germany here, the pronounciation thus becomes rather different.
"Kennet", as a result.
Then you should've said "he wants to be called Kennet" or "he doesn't pronounce the terminal 'h'".
Th is one of those sounds you don't use as much in German, isn't it? In such a case I could see "Kennet" being a reasonable way of saying "Kenneth", even though it's "wrong".
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The 'th' doesn't exist in German. However, I'm of the opinion that if you're choosing a name that relies on foreign pronounciation then you should teach your child how to pronounce his name.
Because that won't force your child to explain that his name is "actually pronounced like this!" Granted, it's not extreme in this case but there are way worse offenders out there.
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They would if the target spreadsheets would stay still. Managerial ADHD causes the daily addition of new (utterly unhelpful and largely fictional) data points, entire new sheets, the abandonment of existing ones, the repurposeing of existing documents to hold different data, etc. It is a giant shitshow.
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The 'th' doesn't exist in German. However, I'm of the opinion that if you're choosing a name that relies on foreign pronounciation then you should teach your child how to pronounce his name.
Sure, a high school friend's dad did that: Named his kids Thierno and Boubacar, and then never really told them the "proper" way to pronounce the names.
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No. Years later I thought about it for some reason and the least unlikely explanation I could come up with is a misspelling of Abu Bakr.
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Even if you just "stop and talk to them", wouldn't it be super uncomfortable if cops "stopped and talked" with you every time they saw you?
Yes, I agree. I think it's usually something like they scrutinize you more often / closely than they otherwise would.
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but nonetheless am required to do so we don't hurt our relationship with the recruiting partner.
If the recruiter is wasting your time with candidates you can't possibly hire, why do you not want to hurt your relationship with them?
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I would hurt the recruiter, which would hurt the relationship as a result.
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Fact: I do not know the answer to this question beyond "because it makes my boss+1 less irritating"
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you shouldn't say or think or acknowledge things which might match reality
No; the point of not being racist is not to confuse correlation with causation.
Look, racism is bad because you're judging people based on something that's a) out of their control, and b) not at all logically tied to whatever you're judging.
Now, for a) we as a society generally agree it's kind of an assholish thing to do, and should be avoided whenever possible, but isn't per se invalid. Our Le-the-dash-ain't-silent-ah hasn't picked her own name, and save for a more or less complex name change procedure it's beyond her control, but it still says something about her upbringing. I'd generally prefer to judge based on other merits or at least give her a chance to prove me wrong, but in absence of those possibilities it's still a valid criterion - there's a solid causal link between having this kind of name and having retards for parents, and between having a shitty upbringing and ending up a shitty person yourself.
With things like race, however, there's no causal link, just occasional correlation, and reasoning based on those is invalid even if the results match the reality. There's nothing that I know of that suggests that people of different races have different capabilities, and all correlations are secondary to different causes (like, say, spending your childhood in a ghetto) that have a relationship with some stereotypes.
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With things like race, however, there's no causal link, just occasional correlation, and reasoning based on those is invalid even if the results match the reality. There's nothing that I know of that suggests that people of different races have different capabilities, and all correlations are secondary to different causes (like, say, spending your childhood in a ghetto) that have a relationship with some stereotypes.
Well yeah, obviously, the kind of skin pigment you have has no causal relationship with your intellect or temper or physical prowess or pretty much anything other than the color of your skin.
But once you go past this surface level, things become murkier.
Can you tie people with black skin color with a certain area of origin on Earth; an area that might have influenced different genetic traits other than the skin color? Maybe. The highest level dash and swimming races seem to consistently select for for certain kind of physique, that can be tied to race.
Of course, this is the tip of a very rigorous selection process, where even the minimal genetic differences can surface out. In a general population, these are probably insignificant.
It's only when you come to culture where things get truly murky. If you are "all cultures are equally great" kind of extremist, you'll have problems explaining something like why 2% of population is responsible for 22% of Nobel Prizes. That's even without going to the negative extremes, with contentious issues of the black culture and racism in USA.
So, can you make a general prediction that "a person of culture X and background Y will likely exhibit traits Z"? I'd say, undoubtedly yes. And as long that's true, it doesn't matter whether the reason behind this is genetics or culture or financial situation or mix of these. All you need to back a prejudice is correlation.
And once you have the prejudice, does it really differ that much from racism? If you went around saying you don't trust black people because of the crime stats, few people will regard you as anything but racist. And for a good reason - this kind of mentality is self-perpetuating, and contributes back to the factors that caused the prejudice in the first place (poverty, cultural isolation, etc).
So what's my point? Dunno. Things are complicated.
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The thing i think is so typical it's that he's trying to pin the racism on everyone else — saying that he doesn't hire black people because customers don't trust them — but then he goes on so much about what he imagines about the different names that it's super obvious that he's the one who's really racist here.
All yall bickering about whether black people really are less trustworthy than white people are kind of dumbs. Far more relevant would be whether Americans really are as racist as this guy's suggesting. Would a bank really lose that much business if they were to hire black tellers?
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Far more relevant would be whether Americans really are as racist as this guy's suggesting. Would a bank really lose that much business if they were to hire black tellers?
It's human nature to make snap prejudiced judgments. And stupid names definitely go into it, especially if it's all you have to go on (like in an email signature).
The same racist guy in the reddit thread had another interesting post:
Finally one person here besides me with common sense. I wouldn't take legal advice from a 'Bubba', but I would trust him to snake a clogged drain. Now, Bubba might be a stellar lawyer, but I have to question his judgement in not using a different professional name. LaShaquillandra should do herself a favor and petition the court for a name change if she wants to be taken seriously by anyone that's not from the hood. Maybe she did get straight As in school, but I have to assume her mother was sooper-ghetto, and passed along her low-rent attitude to her offspring. Sorry, kids, but first impressions do make a big difference.
It's the same reason people wear fancy suits. The guy in hawaii shirt and slippers could be just as competent as the guy in a fancy suit, but if I have only a few seconds to make a snap judgment, these surface details are all I have. The same goes for name. Bubba the lawyer better be one charming motherfucker.
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Would a bank really lose that much business if they were to hire black tellers?
Depends on the area, and he was not simply talking about "black people". He was talking about "black people with ghetto names". There is a big difference in how those two are perceived. When anyone thinks of a black guy named Kenneth, they have no preconceived notions. When they think of a black person with the name " U-a" (You dash uh), they are likely to have some sort of mental image, whether that image is true to reality or not.
Would I hire someone named "U-a"? Honestly, if that resume crossed my desk I would probably put it in the circular file. Not because I am racist, or because I think the person is ghetto, or because of how our clients might react.
I would do so because anyone who doesn't have enough common sense to change that dumb of a name is not anyone I want working for me.
If I had to deal with anyone with that name in a social setting, I would call them "Larry".
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It's human nature to make snap prejudiced judgments
Sure, but do people usually go so far as to walk out of the bank because of it? Most people know that it's childish to make fun of other people's names, and I don't see why Simon Cocks should have to change the name he grew up with, just because @polygeekery can't contain his own stupidity.
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maybe she won't try to defraud accounts
Yeah, if you're worried about bank fraud, going with the "upstanding white male" is completely not the way to go.
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I don't see why Simon Cocks should have to change the name he grew up with, just because @polygeekery can't contain his own stupidity.
Your last name is a lineage. Your first name is what your parents gave you. If your parents were fucking morons, you have a high chance of being one also.
I would not expect a person to change their last name. Hell, driving through the Midwest I once saw a billboard for "Tom Raper RVs". Fine, I get it. It is a lineage. But of Tom has a son named "Definitely A", don't expect me to employ him.
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Ok, but what if he tells you it's pronounced Simon Uuuunnnh, because “the cocks don't be silent”?
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I will call him Larry, make him put on a helmet, and have him GTFO of my office. ;)
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It's the same reason people wear fancy suits. The guy in hawaii shirt and slippers could be just as competent as the guy in a fancy suit, but if I have only a few seconds to make a snap judgment, these surface details are all I have. The same goes for name. Bubba the lawyer better be one charming motherfucker.
I think the root of the confusion here is that some people are expecting humans to be perfectly rational, dispassionate beings when the reality is that we're all just hairless apes.
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Most people know that it's childish to make fun of other people's names, and I don't see why Simon Cocks should have to change the name he grew up with, just because @polygeekery can't contain his own stupidity.
Yeah, making jokes about other people's names is a dick move.
I hear Mike Oxlarge is popular with the ladies.
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Can you tie people with black skin color with a certain area of origin on Earth; an area that might have influenced different genetic traits other than the skin color?
People with black skin color with a certain area of origin on Tyria:
different genetic traits: BEING A MINION OF THE JUNGLE DRAGON
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(like, say, spending your childhood in a ghetto)
Using this as a criteria for job selection is rather dangerous, though, because it just perpetuates the cycle of kids growing up in ghettos, being unable to get decent jobs, being stuck in those ghettos, and eventually having kids that grow up in ghettos.
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Still I think that racist bank hiring manager guy needs to come the fuck off of it. Banks aren't special — they're basically just WalMart for money.
Anyone that gets taken in by a bank with overwrought imposing branches full of aryan John Smiths wearing business suits instead of the cheapo bank round the corner that hires hoodrats and gives you free online banking because they tryna keep costs down deserves every fee that he gets.
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By the way, this image is a discolink. Or a jellypotato. Whatever we're calling it these days.
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Of course, of course, OF COURSE THEY ARE RACIST.
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Yes. It should not matter if you spend your childhood in a ghetto, or in the middle of corns, or on a boat. That is why there are job interviews and trial periods. Ask them questions, assign them tasks, then drink a beer with them.
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By the way, this image is a discolink. Or a jellypotato. Whatever we're calling it these days.
"Annoyance". It asked me to log in to Google. When I did, which I could only do by right-click "open in new tab", all I got was
So thanks for that, I guess.
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Oh, more GW2 stuff. I wonder why it wouldn't work for me directly? I was using Chrome.
Anyway, thanks, even if it was just Ben's latest obsession.
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I believe the original discolink/jellypotato was linked from his Google+ gallery or something to that effect.
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Hey there.... What were you trying to pull!?
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Would a bank really lose that much business if they were to hire black tellers?
I think it's possible in a place where there are basically no black people. Though probably less true today than it used to be.
I heard a story from a woman from Georgia. For some reason I don't recall, she ended up (I think it was 1960s or 1970s) living in one of the Dakotas for a bit (I don't remember which). In the small town, a black person showed up (moved there? passing through? I don't remember). For a person from Georgia, this is nothing. It was so rare there that it was the first black person that many people had seen in real life. I'm not sure that it was "scandalous," but was kind of a big deal.
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The bigger question is: who still uses tellers?
Automatic ATM machines for FTW!
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heard a story from a woman from Georgia. For some reason I don't recall, she ended up (I think it was 1960s or 1970s) living in one of the Dakotas for a bit (I don't remember which). In the small town, a black person showed up (moved there? passing through? I don't remember). For a person from Georgia, this is nothing. It was so rare there that it was the first black person that many people had seen in real life. I'm not sure that it was "scandalous," but was kind of a big deal.
QFT. While the 'let me touch you to see if the Black rubs off' thing sounds ridiculous, and was never common, it actually happened on a few occasions in areas where the local community had never encountered an African-American before and had all sorts of bizarre rumors about them going around. And moving out of a neighborhood or even a town where a (as in one, singular) Black family had moved in happened often enough that 'blockbusters' could get cheap house prices just by spreading a rumor that a Black family were coming to their neighborhood and would cause real estate values to fall. Hard to see that happening today, though more subtle forms of blockbusting do occur sometimes.
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Oh jeez. My shortened nickname is a stereotypical name for an ethnic background that I don't have. Can't wait for some dickweeds to accuse me of cultural misappropriation because my full name is too damned long (ain't nobody got time for 3 syllables - 5 if you throw in my last name)
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The Department of Redundancy Department does.
Stop-and-frisk in New York City - Wikipedia
