State of the OS: Windows 10 Edition



  • So, I have kind of tuned out from Windows 10 since the frenzy of the launch died down. Anyone have news from the trenches? Anyone in a company that has rolled it out yet? Anyone roll it out and then decide to downgrade? Is it better than 8 in fact, and not just because it brings back the start menu? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Bonus points for pun answers that make @accalia laugh (or yell, either works) :smiley:

    [edit: damn it discourse, when I mention someone, keep the @ symbol in there! >_<]



  • It works. It doesn't get in the way.

    Frankly, while things are cosmetically different, I've not really found the experience overall that different from Windows 8.1.


  • mod

    I had some issues with my sound driver. I think they're fixed now after reinstalling it, though.



  • The Cortana integration, while I use it quite infrequently, is nice. UX-wise, while some people liked 8 better, I prefer the sort of icons 10 uses. It's now actually usable on phones too, so I'm really happy with it. But there are some major components, like the 'bridges' for android, iOS, and desktop apps, which are not in yet. We may get at least one of them next month.

    Basically, its a nice OS, and will get more features for free as time goes on.



  • Better than 8 because it has a start menu.

    Works fine.



  • When I upgraded to Windows 10, it was the first time that the official Windows Update graphics drivers for my laptop worked properly out of the box. In 7 and 8, I had to install patched drivers to get OpenGL games to use the discreet graphics card. As a bonus, I haven't seen a single GPU related blue screen since the upgrade.

    The only difference in the way that I interact with the new interface is that the search results you get from searching the start menu are back on the left of the screen instead of the right like they were in 8.

    @rc4 said:

    Better than 8 because it has a start menu.

    Windows 8 always had a start menu. It might have been bikeshedded beyond recognition for some people, but it was always a start menu.



  • @loopback0 said:

    It works. It doesn't get in the way.

    Frankly, while things are cosmetically different, I've not really found the experience overall that different from Windows 8.1.

    That's what I figured would be the case. Any speed improvements or other nice things that would be a carrot to upgrade?



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    I had some issues with my sound driver. I think they're fixed now after reinstalling it, though.

    I can honestly say that at least half the time I change operating systems on a system, that I get stuck in driver hell. At least the last few iterations have been better. Back in the '95, '98 days often times the manufacturer just flat out didn't ever release an updated driver for the new OS
    O_<



  • @Vaire said:

    Any speed improvements

    Nothing obviously noticeable. Both machines I have it on are fairly decent spec though, Windows 8.1 wasn't exactly slow.
    There might be some differences in boot times, but they're rebooted so infrequently it doesn't matter.

    @Vaire said:

    a carrot to upgrade?

    It's free?



  • @Vaire said:

    Any speed improvements or other nice things that would be a carrot to upgrade?

    Not a lot... for now. But those bridges I mentioned increase the likelihood of getting iOS and Android apps on it, as well as sandboxed, no install desktop apps. It does offer multiple desktops, which while they won't make anyone convert from other systems that have them, are certainly not in older windows versions.

    And as a general platform to develop for, it's the best yet.



  • @loopback0 said:

    Any speed improvements

    Nothing obviously noticeable. Both machines I have it on are fairly decent spec though, Windows 8.1 wasn't exactly slow.There might be some differences in boot times, but they're rebooted so infrequently it doesn't matter.

    Yeah, I didn't think the speed would improve that much.
    Free means nothing to me, especially if I have to trade-off in other areas for an OS. Would rather pay for a good one. I think I am going to continue to wait and watch.



  • I've not had to make trade-offs anywhere in it though.



  • @Magus said:

    Not a lot... for now. But those bridges I mentioned increase the likelihood of getting iOS and Android apps on it, as well as sandboxed, no install desktop apps. It does offer multiple desktops, which while they won't make anyone convert from other systems that have them, are certainly not in older windows versions.

    And as a general platform to develop for, it's the best yet.

    The multiple desktops is nice. I agree, not a reason in and of itself to switch, but certainly a nice feature.



  • I have a clean Win10 install.

    After a few restarts, my volume system tray icon refuses to show up:

    So, if I want to change or mute my volume, I have to open the volume app myself. It used to be that I could fix this ssue by deleting a registry key and then restarting, but that no longer works.

    Also, I have a second screen and a Win8 carry-over seems to have made it into Win10: if I try to move my mouse against the top of my primary screen to my second screen on the right, it gets stuck in the top right of my primary screen. There's a 5 pixel invisible wall that prevents the mouse from crossing left-to-right, but not right-to-left. It's there for people who flick the mouse to the close button. There's another one in the bottom left of my secondary screen for people who flick the mouse to the start button on the second screen. The registry key to get rid of these invisible walls doesn't work.

    However, snapping makes up for all of it. I love using the WinKey + arrow keys to snap windows how I like.



  • @LB_ said:

    There's a 5 pixel invisible wall that prevents the mouse from crossing left-to-right, but not right-to-left.

    In Windows 8 it goes both ways. [spoiler]:giggity:[/spoiler]



  • @LB_ said:

    However, snapping makes up for all of it. I love using the WinKey + arrow keys to snap windows how I like.

    That only changed slightly in 10 from how it was in 7.

    I get the barrier only when I drag windows, and I hate it.



  • Oh, I forgot to mention it is nice to see a new console host. And the default screen buffer height is 9001...



  • @LB_ said:

    However, snapping makes up for all of it.

    When dragging a window with the mouse, if you are crossing the screen boundary slowly, it goes to 'snap on half this screen mode' and blocks there. If you want to drag a window to the other screen you need to back off and take a run-up.



  • I did a Windows 10 update on my Stream 7. It now has slightly more free disk space, and otherwise runs about the same. I'm running in desktop mode since "Tablet Mode" is making all of the wrong changes for how I use it.

    The start menu is nice and desktoppy, but is less convenient on a tiny touchscreen. The settings panel is a nice improvement, and being able to mix Mod-tro-re apps with real applications is a huge relief.

    On several occasions I have tapped the sleep button and put the tablet on a shelf, only to find that it had thoughtfully rebooted and wiped out everything I had left open by the next time I picked it up. If this weren't Windows 10 then I would expect that it was my own fault for being careless with the Update settings, but that just isn't an option any more.

    My biggest concerns are that KOTOR still crashes every time I load it, and XCom EW goes into some completely psychotic mix of touch, mouse and ouija board input whenever it starts. I was hoping that at least one of those problems had been caused by a bad configuration or driver issue when I was running Windows 8.1 on the same hardware, but now it looks like a combination of odd hardware and developer error.

    I may try replacing Windows with Ubuntu at some time, but the thought of running that on unsupported hardware without a keyboard attached makes me cringe.



  • @Magus said:

    That only changed slightly in 10 from how it was in 7.

    I get the barrier only when I drag windows, and I hate it.

    That's a fair point. Snapping windows in Win 7/8 was a little bit less annoying than in 10.



  • No, I mean, 7 and 8 let me drag windows across screens more easily, but that's about it. The snap hotkeys and snapping in general now goes to 2x2 instead of just halves, so it's definitely better in 10, but that's about the only difference.



  • I don't use hotkeys, but if I dragged a window to the side in 7 or 8, it just snapped to half of the display. If I do it in 10, it gives me the rest of the windows to pick as the window for the other side. Fuck off Windows, just snap my bloody program to the side.



  • Not bad so far. Stays out of the way and I don't need a start menu replacement. Just be careful when you install that you don't sign over a kidney to microsoft.



  • Yeaaaah .... ever since they introduced that window snapping thing, I have disabled it with extreme prejudice on every new install of Windows since then. It irritates me more than anything else. If I want windows resized or moved around, I will do it myself thankyouverymuch >_<



  • You won't like Windows 10's version then - but if you disable it anyway then it makes no difference.



  • I actually kind of like that bit. The suggestions are frequently helpful. But mostly I like the quad-snapping.

    Oh, also, the new mobile version of edge can log into discourse through Google. Somehow the old one couldn't.



  • @Magus said:

    mobile

    @Magus said:

    discourse

    Yeah, but not being able to log a mobile device into Discourse is doing it a favour.



  • This thread has started acting weird. Whenever I enter it on Sleipnir, the posts sometimes go white and the editor sometimes disappears and flickers a bunch.



  • @Vaire said:

    ever since they introduced that window snapping thing, I have disabled it with extreme prejudice on every new install of Windows since then.

    I'm the opposite; on my parents' old computer with Vista, whenever I visited them (and invariably looked at their computer problems) I'd miss the ability to snap windows to the top or sides.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @hungrier said:

    In Windows 8 it goes both ways.

    It does that in 10 for me.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @LB_ said:

    And the default screen buffer height is 9001

    I think I mentioned that during the beta. You know why, right? It's overrrrr nine thouuuuuusand!



  • I've read this far ... where's the WTF?

    I guess that people are still relying on rote mousing to move windows around could be construed as a WTF :trolleybus:



  • On the whole I would say it's worse (for me) than 8.1.

    The main issues (again, for me) are

    • Outlook has multiple bugs that make email a painful experience.
      In my case the notification of email is gone, so I never get notified when new mail comes in; for some reason it has merged my inbox with my trash folder so every new email contains the whole deleted history; this is all worsened by the account settings pane refusing to allow me to make any changes.
    • The 8.1 Start screen was better
    • Ugly icons
    • A few minor details that while insignificant, worked or felt better in 8.1

    While I'm sure 10 has a lot of improvements under the hood, and deals with modern devices better, for my day to day use it just feels like a step back in most areas.



  • I ran into a few bugs on the very first boot. It's definitely not fully polished. Server version will be released in 2016, so that's probably the time they feel confident it will be working.

    I think the menu is a step back from the Windows 7 menu.

    All the preinstalled apps are just a a big interface to MIcrosoft's cloud services. Don't even think of using it without a MS account.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    I think the menu is a step back from the Windows 7 menu.

    It's Microsoft doing splits.

    They have this cool Modern tech that they tried to push, they have people with pitchforks demanding the Start menu back, and now they're stuck supporting both in a very awkward way.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    I think the menu is a step back from the Windows 7 menu.

    I use ClassicShell like a luddite. I did try the Win 10 menu, and it's definitely better than Win 8.1's menu, but went back to ClassicShell.

    @anonymous234 said:

    All the preinstalled apps are just a a big interface to MIcrosoft's cloud services

    I removed them.

    @anonymous234 said:

    Don't even think of using it without a MS account.

    I use it without one. I don't use the store, so it makes no difference.



  • I don't know, I like the new start menu just fine in all three modes, though the phone one is the best by far. If tablet mode was more like WP, they would be in really good shape. Hopefully they will continue to converge more as time goes on.

    Though admittedly until the latest build, which wasn't long ago, the phone one was far worse than current tablet mode.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @anonymous234 said:

    Don't even think of using it without a MS account.

    I somehow (*coughLTSB*cough) got a version that comes with no Modern apps. I can use Windows just fine. :stuck_out_tongue:
    Granted I had to sync some files and registry settings from Windows 8.1 (wtf, no calc.exe? What, are you trying to save space or something?), but it's working absolutely great!
    keels over every night around 2:58am due to a bugcheck blue-screen



  • They have a new calculator store app, which does more than the old one did. I assume that's the reason the old one was removed.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    Did they remove notepad because WordPad was new and did more than the predecessor did? No?
    I'm not sure if there was a precedent set for this, but since I have the version without the New Calculator app, you would think they would have included the old one (it's like, what, 897 KB (900KB on disk)?).

    It's an arbitrary and capricious move on their part...



  • Are you insane? WordPad is an RTF word processor, while notepad is a simple text editor. WordPad has been replaced at least once with a newer version.

    The only difference with the calculator is that the technology stack the new one is built on changed, so there's no calc.exe anymore.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    You're right. There is no calc.exe anymore, despite being there since Windows 1.0, just because they decided to build one using Modern Technology?

    They didn't delete cmd.exe just because now they have powershell.exe, did they?



  • They deleted WordPad.exe when they added a new WordPad.exe. Cmd is irreplaceable, not because it's good, but because too many people have .bat scripts that use it.

    If you release a direct replacement for a GUI app, you very rarely keep the old one around, just in case some idiot is feeling nostalgic.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Magus said:

    some idiot is feeling nostalgic.
    Believe you me when I say it isn't "nostalgia" that caused me to copy over a tiny utility app from an older version of the operating system. It literally doesn't exist on this version of windows (even the Modern App version).

    That is my complaint. It's not replaced, it's GONE, erased, not a hardlink in winsxs, not a missing registry entry, eradicated from the system image.



  • I removed all of the Modern apps that Powershell let me easily remove, and I still have calc.exe?
    Sure, it's a Win 10 version, but it's there.



  • It is replaced, with an app that comes installed except in the LTS. They know it isn't used in any scripts, and it has no features that they haven't at the very least replicated. Yeah, it's lame that if you don't have the store at all, you don't get the old calc.exe, but who cares?


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    @Magus said:

    Yeah, it's lame that if you don't have the store at all, you don't get the old calc.exe, but who cares?

    The stupid business users, to be honest.
    Their argument? "Why would I want to open a whole new Excel window to do simple math when I can push this calculator button on my keyboard and do it in half a second?"
    Yes, we still have keyboard that have a dedicated calculator button.



  • Even most businesses aren't likely to run the LTS on workstations, I imagine. It's meant for long-running systems, not standard daily use.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    I see that I've been sold on LTSB incorrectly then, since the main highlight of it (I was told) is that it wasn't subject to the frilly "I get to be on the edge of Microsoft's consumer preview ideas" update schedule, and only get security and critical OS updates. It's essentially like Windows Update is turned off, but not, and only gets the updates that are tried and true (after all the other people get to have their WiFi drivers BSOD their computers for a while).

    If I'd know that what LTSB means is "Like Windows Server Core, but with the GUI enabled by default", I might have installed a different version....



  • @loopback0 said:

    If I do it in 10, it gives me the rest of the windows to pick as the window for the other side.

    There's an option to disable that so it works like in Win7. I find it convenient though because I almost never just want to snap one window.


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