Lunix users can't even BE khajiit WTF



  • @TimeBandit said:

    This is not so true

    Continuing the discussion from Any program that can open a 1.87 GB XML document?:

    @TimeBandit said:

    This is not so true

    Note there are no Elder Scrolls games on that list. Wheras Xbox has 4, Playstation has 3, and Windows has like 7, and even Mac has one.

    Without Elder Scrolls games, there's no point. And I mean, "no point to living". Might as well seppuku right there.


  • area_deu

    You can run Arena in DosBox.



  • Since DOS is not Linux, I'm not sure why you bothered to post that. But yes, 1 Elder Scrolls game available in DOS. Maybe 2, I'm not sure if Daggerfall is Windows-native or DOS-in-Windows.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    I'm not sure if Daggerfall is Windows-native or DOS-in-Windows

    DOS

    All the newer ones work just fine in Wine. The only thing that I tried and doesn't is the Morrowind Overhaul mod.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Without Elder Scrolls games, there's no point. And I mean, "no point to living". Might as well seppuku right there.

    At least now we know why you keep using Windows


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakey's fairly correct though - even now, Linux game support is pretty sucky. Granted this is more the fault of other parties than Linux devs, but Windows is the "king" of gaming still. Which is one of the reasons I generally stick with it at home...



  • @sloosecannon said:

    Granted this is more the fault of other parties than Linux devs,

    Bullshit.

    Linux is fucking hard to write games in. Drivers are worse and less stable than Windows. There's no DirectX-like API that nails the gaming use-case with a laser-focus, and instead they have to deal with the OpenGL crap.

    (Don't get me wrong-- OpenGL works pretty well, but it was originally designed for CAD, games were an afterthought. And their development process of allowing vendor-specific extensions to introduce new features is a compatibility nightmare for game developers-- you either stick to 5-year-old technology, or you write the same code 3 times to satisfy 3 different vendors' extensions.)

    The development tools suck. I remember a blog post Jonathan Blow made about porting Braid to Linux, where he was talking about how Linux has no development environments where you can debug into a GPU shader, Linux has no low-latency sound libraries, he couldn't reasonably capture the mouse data in a way his game needs, etc, etc.

    @sloosecannon said:

    but Windows is the "king" of gaming still. Which is one of the reasons I generally stick with it at home...

    The thing is you're wrong here. If you mean AAA gaming specifically, at this current moment I'd say Playstation 4 is the "king", with Windows being the "queen" and Xbox One being like a squire or something, I dunno, this metaphor sucks. If you mean mobile gaming, Android's the king and iOS is the queen.

    OS X is the guy at the castle who dredges out the shit from the moat, and Linux is his peon. That's how bad Linux is.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Without Elder Scrolls games, there's no point. And I mean, "no point to living". Might as well seppuku right there.

    At least now we know why you keep using Windows

    Maybe also because the os doesn't skull fuck you every ten minutes with inane shit, shit guis and fucking god awful applications that are only intuitive to someone who has been lobotomized. You know what the best thing about windows is. I rarely fucking see it. I spend my time actually working or gaming instead of fuckingw with the os. The rare time you have a problem you google it and follow the nice pictures and gui to fix your problem.

    Linux, which fucking flavor, which version have you, is skullfucker 9.2324+ installed but not 9.2327+ on the c branch because it was accidentally patched out of that while fixing crippling security hole 9 of 50 billion the fucking reason you updated to it. There may be three ways to help you but it really looks like it might require you to dump the vm. Oh you installed to harddisk. Well be careful the bootloader doesn't fuck your windows installation while you're reinstalling. Have fucking fun getting your settings right again because dchp enabled by default is too fucking hard.

    Fuck right off. I'll put up with this shit at work because they're dumb enough to pay me for this garbage instead of spending my time going through the fucking backlog. In my free time I'll stick to something more enjoyable like drowning myself in vat of boiling chlorine.

    Command line isn't bad though.



  • @DogsB said:

    Well be careful the bootloader doesn't fuck your windows installation while you're reinstalling.

    Only Windows fucks the bootloader every time you re-install it since it believes it is the only OS that exist.
    @DogsB said:
    Have fucking fun getting your settings right again because dchp enabled by default is too fucking hard.

    You must suck at installing an OS since EVERY Linux distro is dhcp enabled by default.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    DogsB:
    Have fucking fun getting your settings right again because dchp enabled by default is too fucking hard.

    You must suck at installing an OS since EVERY Linux distro is dhcp enabled by default.

    (Bonus reply: Diksuck still didn't fix multiple inline quotes?)

    I suspect that DogsB meant that it's a pain that DHCP is always enabled by default and you don't get the option in (most) setup to to specify a static address.
    Now, to be fair, my muscle-memory does know how to do that now but I did have to re-google it the first 30 times.



  • @skotl said:

    I suspect that DogsB meant that it's a pain that DHCP is always enabled by default and you don't get the option in (most) setup to to specify a static address.

    From memory, Debian let you do it at install time.
    Once installed, if you have KDE it's dead simple.



  • Ubuntu doesn't, not even for a LAMP install, which has always seemed a WTF to me...



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Drivers are worse and less stable than Windows.

    Linux devs don't make drivers (anymore).

    @blakeyrat said:

    There's no DirectX-like API that nails the gaming use-case with a laser-focus, and instead they have to deal with the OpenGL crap.

    Linux devs don't make drivers (anymore), so graphics APIs are not their responsibility.

    @blakeyrat said:

    The development tools suck.

    Linux devs don't make development tools either.

    Remember that Linux devs make only the Linux kernel. The rest of stuff is made by the rest of people.



  • @Gaska said:

    Linux devs don't make drivers (anymore).

    Right; but they also don't make a solid foundation anybody ELSE can use to make drivers. So users are just fucked.

    @Gaska said:

    so graphics APIs are not their responsibility.

    How about "giving a shit that their OS sucks ass", is that their responsibility?

    Look, if they care about the quality of the OS, it kind of is their responsibility. Whether or not they think it is.

    @Gaska said:

    Linux devs don't make development tools either.

    Oh you're doing the slippery slimy Linux thing where you change the definition of the word "Linux" to make your point. How disgusting of you.

    Fuck off. You know what I meant.

    @Gaska said:

    The rest of stuff is made by the rest of people.

    They should be less shit at it.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Right; but they also don't make a solid foundation anybody ELSE can use to make drivers.

    Actually, they do.

    @blakeyrat said:

    How about "giving a shit that their OS sucks ass", is that their responsibility?

    They don't make OS - they make kernel. If you want to blame someone for that whole OS sucks, blame Canonical, or someone else who provide whole OS.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh you're doing the slippery slimy Linux thing where you change the definition of the word "Linux" to make your point.

    There are just two definitions - Linux the kernel, and Linux the whole ecosystem. Since "devs" is ill-defined in the latter context, the only way to understand "Linux devs" is Linux kernel devs. If you mean the OS, you must name a concrete distribution, or no one will understand you.

    @blakeyrat said:

    They [the rest of people that make the rest of stuff] should be less shit at it.

    Agreed. In particular, NVidia and AMD should because they make the most damage to Linux gaming by providing buggy drivers.



  • @Gaska said:

    Actually, they do.

    Liar.

    @Gaska said:

    They don't make OS - they make kernel. If you want to blame someone for that whole OS sucks, blame Canonical, or someone else who provide whole OS.

    You know what I meant, you fuck.

    @Gaska said:

    There are just two definitions - Linux the kernel, and Linux the whole ecosystem. Since "devs" is ill-defined in the latter context, the only way to understand "Linux devs" is Linux kernel devs. If you mean the OS, you must name a concrete distribution, or no one will understand you.

    Weasel words! WEASEL WORDS!

    Gaska: I AM NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK I AM. Fuck off.

    @Gaska said:

    Agreed. In particular, NVidia and AMD should because they make the most damage to Linux gaming by providing buggy drivers.

    There's no stable foundation for them to build on.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Liar.

    Explain.

    @blakeyrat said:

    You know what I meant, you fuck.

    No I fucking don't, and I just told you why.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Gaska: I AM NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK I AM.

    Then why every time I give you the benefit of doubt, you just make yourself look more and more stupid with each post?

    @blakeyrat said:

    There's no stable foundation for them to build on.

    Windows isn't any better in this regard. Unless you when you say "stable foundation", you don't mean stable foundation but something else (just like with Linux).



  • @Gaska said:

    Explain.

    Linux developers call the very notion of a stable driver interface "nonsense".

    Bonus quote:

    (remember we are talking about GPL released drivers here, if your code doesn't fall under this category, good luck, you are on your own here, you leech .)

    @Gaska said:

    No I fucking don't, and I just told you why.

    You purposefully misinterpreted what I typed to score forumpointzzz. It was obvious I was using the word "Linux" to mean a "Linux-based OS" or whatever term you prefer.

    The Linux community does this on purpose, you know. Use the same word in 46 different ways and you can never lose a debate. Because if someone says "Linux doesn't have X" you can just use a different definition of the word "Linux" and suddenly it does have X and you score all the forumpointzzz.

    Except you don't here, because we're not that fucking stupid.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said:

    There's no stable foundation for them to build on.

    Liar



  • @Gaska said:

    Windows isn't any better in this regard. Unless you when you say "stable foundation", you don't mean stable foundation but something else (just like with Linux).

    I have the source code for my venerable 100Mbit Ethernet card's driver, thanks to the vendor including some GPL code. It was last updated in 2002. It has Linux autoconf/automake and a Windows Visual C++ 6 project file. Built cleanly and worked great for Knoppix 2.2 and Windows XP.

    Windows 10: Install the Windows 10 DDK. Fire up Visual Studio 2015, upgrade and load the project, hit "Build", right-click the driver INF and hit "Install". Curse at having forgotten to sign it, test-sign it, install it again. Done, works great.

    Linux: Install the kernel headers package for my current kernel. ./configure.sh, mostly works, a few overrides I need to enable. make... thousands of errors. Thousands. Totally screwed.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Linux developers call the very notion of a stable driver interface "nonsense".

    As a Linux, user, I'm just relieved that I don't have to worry about being khajiit.



  • I love Linux, but only on servers. I'd never contemplate trying to use it on a PC, laptop or whatever and I sure as hell wouldn't be playing games on it.

    And as for the drivers - as long as the Linux distribution authors create drivers that work on a VMWare environment then I'm happy as a pig in poop. It must be ten years since I last tried to install Linux on a piece of metal and I have zero intention of ever needing to again.

    So, Linux + driver for disk, keyboard and network = Server.
    Windows for everything else.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Only Windows fucks the bootloader every time you re-install it since it believes it is the only OS that exist.

    I recently moved my work PCs to use network booting and remote filesystems over NFS specifically so Linux wouldn't bork the bootloader and local partitioning every OS update. Now my bootloader is fixed via PXE and Linux can't touch it, and finally I can safely multiboot a bajillion Linux flavors which I need to do for customer support reasons.

    It really doesn't matter the OS. Any more than 2 - 3 installed and everything goes banana-shaped.

    @TimeBandit said:

    You must suck at installing an OS since EVERY Linux distro is dhcp enabled by default.

    CentOS 6.X disables the ethernet interface by default. The first thing we always do on a new CentOS/RHEL install is look up the vi documentation so we can figure out how to switch on the net interface via the sysconfig files, then install nano so we can do real work.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Linux developers call the very notion of a stable driver interface "nonsense".

    posted Fri, 03 Dec 2004 in [/linux]

    Eleven years is a long time in IT.

    @blakeyrat said:

    You purposefully misinterpreted what I typed to score forumpointzzz. It was obvious I was using the word "Linux" to mean a "Linux-based OS" or whatever term you prefer.

    It's just less harsh to assume you are wrong about the words than to assume you don't have fucking clue about the shit you're talking about. And thinking there is some group of "Linux devs" that make everything linuxy is fucking nonsense.

    @blakeyrat said:

    The Linux community does this on purpose, you know.

    Point out when you're wrong?

    @blakeyrat said:

    The Linux community does this on purpose, you know. Use the same word in 46 different ways and you can never lose a debate. Because if someone says "Linux doesn't have X" you can just use a different definition of the word "Linux" and suddenly it does have X and you score all the forumpointzzz.

    Except you don't here, because we're not that fucking stupid.


    THEN WHY DO YOU EVEN MENTION IT IF I DIDN'T DO LIKE YOU SAID!? Asshole.



  • @mott555 said:

    CentOS 6.X disables the ethernet interface by default

    CentOS sucks then. Why the fuck would they do that ?

    @mott555 said:

    install nano so we can do real work

    First thing I do when I work on a server. I know just enough vi to edit something if I can't install nano



  • @TimeBandit said:

    CentOS sucks then. Why the fuck would they do that ?

    I'm mostly certain Red Hat's business model is subtitled "How to make our OS difficult so people pay us for support."



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    I have the source code for my venerable 100Mbit Ethernet card's driver, thanks to the vendor including some GPL code. It was last updated in 2002. It has Linux autoconf/automake and a Windows Visual C++ 6 project file. Built cleanly and worked great for Knoppix 2.2 and Windows XP.

    Windows 10: Install the Windows 10 DDK. Fire up Visual Studio 2015, upgrade and load the project, hit "Build", right-click the driver INF and hit "Install". Curse at having forgotten to sign it, test-sign it, install it again. Done, works great.

    Linux: Install the kernel headers package for my current kernel. ./configure.sh, mostly works, a few overrides I need to enable. make... thousands of errors. Thousands. Totally screwed.


    Without more info, it's impossible to say if it's Linux breaking bad or just shitty driver. There were thousands of drivers that refused to work on Windows Vista but that were working on XP, when Vista was originally released.



  • @Gaska said:

    There were thousands of drivers that refused to work on Windows Vista but that were working on XP, when Vista was originally released.

    Not true.

    You had to know the "secret button" but Vista would run 2000 and XP drivers just fine, if they were manually-installed. All the existing driver code still existed and worked in addition to the new Vista driver model. (I wouldn't be extremely shocked if it still exists in Windows 10.)

    The reason it was made difficult to access (requiring human intervention) wasn't because the OS couldn't run those drivers, it was prevent driver-makers from using it as an excuse for vendors never updating those drivers so that Windows would have to remain compatible with them until the end of time.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    You had to know the "secret button" but Vista would run 2000 and XP drivers just fine, if they were manually-installed.

    I have broken my first Vista install exactly this way. Shitty drivers are shitty.



  • Ok...?

    Are you totally off the topic, or what the fuck are you even talking about now?

    Yes, shitty things are shitty. Congratulations. You get a doggy biscuit.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Are you totally off the topic, or what the fuck are you even talking about now?

    It was w.r.t. @TwelveBaud's post.



  • @mott555 said:

    CentOS 6.X disables the ethernet interface by default.

    :wtf::question:

    @mott555 said:

    How to make our OS difficult so people pay us for support.
    Oh, carry on then. (But not with CentOS 6, of course.)



  • @Gaska said:

    @TwelveBaud said:
    I have the source code for my venerable 100Mbit Ethernet card's driver, thanks to the vendor including some GPL code. It was last updated in 2002. It has Linux autoconf/automake and a Windows Visual C++ 6 project file. Built cleanly and worked great for Knoppix 2.2 and Windows XP.

    Windows 10: Install the Windows 10 DDK. Fire up Visual Studio 2015, upgrade and load the project, hit "Build", right-click the driver INF and hit "Install". Curse at having forgotten to sign it, test-sign it, install it again. Done, works great.

    Linux: Install the kernel headers package for my current kernel. ./configure.sh, mostly works, a few overrides I need to enable. make... thousands of errors. Thousands. Totally screwed.


    Without more info, it's impossible to say if it's Linux breaking bad or just shitty driver. There were thousands of drivers that refused to work on Windows Vista but that were working on XP, when Vista was originally released.

    The Linux kernel team can and does routinely break the driver API and not just in major releases either. No driver written in 2004 will work on a modern kernel. Hell, no driver written in 2013 will probably work on a modern kernel.

    The reasoning behind this is because they want all driver writers to submit their code for their inclusion in the kernel so the kernel team can refactor the driver API whenever the fuck they want.



  • @powerlord said:

    The Linux kernel team can and does routinely break the driver API and not just in major releases either. No driver written in 2004 will work on a modern kernel. Hell, no driver written in 2013 will probably work on a modern kernel.

    The reasoning behind this is because they want all driver writers to submit their code for their inclusion in the kernel so the kernel team can refactor the driver API whenever the fuck they want.


    The reason behind this is they want to change the API to make it better if they need to.

    Just put your driver in the Linux tree and let them maintain it for you at no charge.
    There is thousand of drivers that are properly maintained that way (and @TwelveBaud's card is probably included in there).

    Or, properly maintain it yourself if it is so precious to you.



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Just put your driver in the Linux tree and let them maintain it for you at no charge.

    Right but, oh it has proprietary code so FUCK YOU!



  • @TimeBandit said:

    Or, properly maintain it yourself if it is so precious to you.

    Problems reading ?



  • @mott555 said:

    ...look up the vi documentation so we can figure out how to switch on the net interface via the sysconfig files, then install nano so we can do real work.

    You've not lived till you've talked a 23 year old receptionist (she was the only one still in the customer's building) through a marathon vi-session over the phone.

    Excerpt (from 25 year old memory); "No - looks like we should start again. :q!RETURN then vi sys.config. Yup. Now /ds= RETURN, then 4cwds=192.168.0.1 ESCAPE/restart RETURN$3b2cwauto ESCAPE:wq"

    See? That wasn't so hard, was it?



  • @skotl said:

    Excerpt (from 25 year old memory); "No - looks like we should start again. :q!RETURN then vi sys.config. Yup. Now /ds= RETURN, then 4cwds=192.168.0.1 ESCAPE/restart RETURN$3b2cwauto ESCAPE:wq"
    The file for some reason is read only and the receptionist hasn't told you there was a vague incoherent message to that that effect. Always remember those !

    @TimeBandit said:

    CentOS 6.X disables the ethernet interface by default

    CentOS sucks then. Why the fuck would they do that ?

    Why does anyone do anything in Linux. Its retarded unless you're willing to give yourself a lobotomy. If management didn't see dollar signs at the idea of paying no license fees it would of been binned years ago.
    @TimeBandit said:
    install nano so we can do real work

    First thing I do when I work on a server. I know just enough vi to edit something if I can't install nano

    Just learn vim. It saves time in the end. Sad state of affairs when the best editor on linux is the most migraine inducing peice of software you can find. Also the sense of achievement you feel after spending ten minutes adding a single line of configuration to a file really raises questions about some people having reproduction rights.

    Vim Golf is also retarded.



  • @DogsB said:

    Why does anyone do anything in Linux. Its retarded unless you're willing to give yourself a lobotomy. If management didn't see dollar signs at the idea of paying no license fees it would of been binned years ago.

    While I tend to agree with the sentiment here, telling our customers to sod off because they use Linux isn't very good for PR. (Nor do we have a support forum we can ban them from.)



  • @mott555 said:

    (Nor do we have a support forum we can ban them from.)

    Hmmm... have you considered this, though? Perhaps Jeff is onto some new business model that the rest of us haven't yet discovered?



  • @mott555 said:

    While I tend to agree with the sentiment here, telling our customers to sod off because they use Linux isn't very good for PR. (Nor do we have a support forum we can ban them from.)
    At the last place I worked they had the very innovative idea of charging more for supporting older systems that weren't moved on to our PAAS. Much to our suprise the clients actually spent the money for our contuined support but the company still almost went bankrupt. Something about dismantling and destroying necessary servers and underesimating development costs of moving to PAAS.



  • @DogsB said:

    At the last place I worked they had the very innovative idea of charging more for supporting older systems that weren't moved on to our PAAS. Much to our suprise the clients actually spent the money for our contuined support but the company still almost went bankrupt. Something about dismantling and destroying necessary servers and underesimating development costs of moving to PAAS.

    Our company has happily shipped software to paying customers for over 25 years.
    Now we have this new fangled (well, it's six years old now) SaaS platform and customers expect to pay less for us to manage the damn thing on our platform than if they bought it on-prem.
    It's got to the ridiculous situation where they ask for an on-prem quote and then ask what discount they will get if they "just go SaaS".





  • I think my kitty-drawing is better than theirs...



  • @DogsB said:

    Sad state of affairs when the best editor on linux is the most migraine inducing peice of software you can find

    There is a ton of editors available for Linux, one of them is Sublime.
    Just because vi is installed doesn't mean you have to use it.
    Just because Notepad is the same fuckin peace of junk it was on Windows 3.11, it doesn't mean you have to use it :rolleyes:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TimeBandit said:

    You must suck at installing an OS since EVERY Linux distro is dhcp enabled by default.

    He must be the guy who has been doing programming or sysadmin work for 20 years but somehow can't manage to get ubuntu to work and that is somehow supposed to prove it's unusable for anyone. :trollface:

    @DogsB said:

    Just learn vim. It saves time in the end. Sad state of affairs when the best editor on linux is the most migraine inducing peice of software you can find

    Burn the heretic!



  • @TimeBandit said:

    There is a ton of editors available for Linux, one of them is Sublime.Just because vi is installed doesn't mean you have to use it.Just because Notepad is the same fuckin peace of junk it was on Windows 3.11, it doesn't mean you have to use it
    You mean there is a ton of shit on linux. Headless and putty is the only way I'm touching linux. Perferably on server no where near me, managed by someone else and has nothing to do with me. Sublime does look nice and shiny though. Thanks for that but I'll keep using vim. I've better things to do with my time than setup remote access for desktop.

    @antiquarian said:

    He must be the guy who has been doing programming or sysadmin work for 20 years but somehow can't manage to get ubuntu to work and that is somehow supposed to prove it's unusable for anyone.
    I tried ubuntu once when I was younger, more foolish and hadn't realised that I'd never get those hours of my life back. I was half tempted to leave it on my sister's laptop and claim ignorance when it came to tech support. Unfortunately she needed a decent office suite so back to windows with her. She has a mac now and I don't have to do tech support. So some stories have a happy ending.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @mott555 said:

    Nor do we have a support forum we can ban them from.

    Doing It Wrong


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TimeBandit said:

    Only Windows fucks the bootloader every time

    No--around 2002, I had a Linux distro eat my partition table.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    You know what I meant, you fuck.

    I don't know why you would think he does, when you style yourself as being unable to understand anything that requires even the slightest bit of deductive reasoning or metaphor.

    But carry on anyway because this rant is funny.


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