Fork Discourse



  • It doesn't seem to be a popular option, and I doubt it will get much traction, but it was being discussed in another topic, so I figured it should get a discussion topic.

    The main pro, such as it is, seems to be "fixing the stuff Jeff refused to fix, just to piss him off."


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @HardwareGeek said:

    The main pro, such as it is, seems to be "fixing the stuff Jeff refused to fix, just to piss him off."

    He'd get to experience one of the fun aspects of Open Source: piss people off enough and they take your customers with your own software!



  • Tempting. However, to quote @boomzilla, this sounds like work.


  • SockDev



  • Apart from doubting if there are enough people who would take this up, I don't trust Jeff to not have left any disgruntled bombs in the code.


  • SockDev

    Would you work on a fork of Discourse?
    [poll]

    [/poll]


  • Fake News

    While he might have lost pretty much all his credibility, do you really think he would stoop so low as building in a "backdoor" to decrease user experience?
    I could imagine some outrage if such a thing were discovered...


  • SockDev

    With Jeff, could you really tell a difference? If he believes it improves it, even when it measurably makes it worse for everyone else...



  • If I were looking to make my own board software, I probably would fork Discourse.

    But I don't think we're looking to do that here.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    In concept, I'd be all about working on this. In practice, I hate Javascript. I'd only be particularly helpful DB side, and while I've never looked I have a feeling it would need a massive refactor.

    Maybe those of us interested do it as a side project, but we don't rely on it for the production forum.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Would you work on a fork of Discourse?

    Yeah, we'd need a fucking Microsoft-sized team to fix this shit.



  • You do you anticipate doing the labor?

    If I had a lot of "fuck you money", though, it'd be a fun project to fork Discourse, hire a few devs off a job board to fix up some of the worst flaws, then start selling it and competing directly with Atwood with his own product. Open sores! But I don't have the time, money, or inclination for that.



  • I get the impression Discourse is too much of a mess to start with. If we wanted something Discourse-like, I think it would be better to start from scratch rather than fork the existing codebase.


  • SockDev

    Plus who wants to work in Ruby?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    This is my assessment of the database. Our admin assistant can do better design work than this.


  • BINNED

    If it was Rust (or Rust+Cython=>Python) that could be an excuse to finally learn Rust while working on something useful.


  • BINNED

    I'd be willing to work on it, but given its 2010's toxic hellstew status...

    Screw that, what I'm interested in is making something for next 10 years! Like, something that only works on Google Glass!



  • Tdwtf could start using a fork in github and see what happens. Worst case it is a minimal effort and may calm things down for a while until the choice for a new software is settled.

    I like the low effort part.



  • @mott555 said:

    Discourse is too much of a mess to start with.

    @RaceProUK said:

    Plus who wants to work in Ruby?

    These. I, personally, don't see any mileage whatsoever in forking Discourse.

    And the system requirements are horrendous for even a simplistic setup (my sandbox for example), let alone for what we need.



  • "Ruby on Rails" and "low effort" are mutually exclusive in my experience.



  • I was almost wanting to learn it for a while. What do you recommend as lowest effort for web dev?


  • SockDev

    @fbmac said:

    What do you recommend as lowest effort for web dev?

    Javascript.

    Back end you have choices, front end you don't.

    Learn JS, get good at it. Learn how to do anything you need to do with it without using the frameworks. then once you can do it without using the frameworks, learn a couple of frameworks, to the level of being competent in them. maybe not being able to use them blindly, but be capable.



  • I am not totally strange to web-dev, having done some of it in the past, so I know some javascript. None of these ember and angular stuff but I can deal with it.

    I am interested in hearing more of the opinions of the anti-rails crowd. I dont like java and I dont use windows out of my work hours. I did some hello world stuff with flask and pyramid.

    I had a small website I made in 2h and had its design critized in at least 5 different languages, I think it must be a new record.


  • SockDev

    ah. an intermediate level then.

    in that case. Learn Javascript, and pair it with a server side language you are familiar and comfortable with.

    Python is a good choice, as is Nodejs, or Java, or C#. Even PHP and Perl have worth.

    You mention using Flask and Pyramid. Those frameworks are great, and you should know how to use them, but you should also know how to make the website without the framework. Learn how to make a basic website without using anything other than core language, that way the framework is not a magic black box. because as a programmer you have stepped up onto the magicians stage, and the price of that is you need to know the truth behind the trick.

    If it's still a magic black box you are not a stage magician yet, you are still at the level of parlour tricks. Learn how the magic works, then when it's no longer magic to you you can dazzle your crowd with the magic you can do.



  • It's not for career as you seem to be aiming for, its good advice but I am already coding around for ages.

    I was trying to convince @mott555 to expand on his argument, see what frameworks he likes and why he dont like rails. I was thinking about learning rails for messing with discourse, I think I will end doing it anyway.


  • SockDev

    career or hobby, professional or amatuer, my answer changes not.

    :smiley:
    you want to be a magician? there is a price, but it's a price that i feel is worth paying.

    as for your learning Ruby on Rails, if you see value in it then go for it. I personally find the ethos and culture of Ruby hard to agree with. I firmly dislike and disagree with the decision that monkey patching is not only a valid, but the officially supported way to extend core. That means that i cannot just grab a gem and use it without having to worry about it changing the behavior of core classes. That reduces my trust in the language as a whole.

    But that's personal to me, my values and decisions are not your values and decisions. If you see value in learning RoR, and anticipate a personal ROI, either in satisfaction, financial, or any other of a million and one other measures of return on your investment of time and talent in learning RoR, then by all means learn RoR.



  • @fbmac said:

    I dont like java

    @accalia said:

    ... or Java ...

    :laughing:


  • SockDev

    @fbmac doesn't like java, I don't like Ruby.....

    it's all good.

    doesn't mean either language is necessarily bad.



  • Nevermind.



  • @fbmac said:

    I was trying to convince @mott555 to expand on his argument, see what frameworks he likes and why he dont like rails. I was thinking about learning rails for messing with discourse, I think I will end doing it anyway.

    For server-side web development, I've used ASP .NET, PHP, and Node.js. All are fairly easy to work in.

    I've not actually done real work in Ruby on Rails, all I know is the few RoR applications I've tried to deploy took a ridiculous amount of time to get functional, all while the banner in the error pages mocked me with the message "Ruby on Rails that just works!"

    I have a Redmine instance that breaks every few weeks due to operating system updates done by my webhost. It's a terrible annoyance.



  • @fbmac said:

    @loopback0 said:
    An interesting setup to turn Redis into an on-disk DB with just keys in memory

    You're reding the page about Redis Virtual Memory, that is a deprecated feature:

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Redis VM is now deprecated. **Redis 2.4 will be the latest Redis version featuring Virtual Memory** (but it also warns you that Virtual Memory usage is discouraged). We found that using VM has several disadvantages and problems. In the future of Redis we want to simply provide the best in-memory database (but persistent on disk as usual) ever, without considering at least for now the support for databases bigger than RAM. Our future efforts are focused into providing scripting, cluster, and better persistence.

    ##What was it built with?
    Discourse is a JavaScript application that runs in your web browser, using the Ember.js framework.
    ­
    The server side of Discourse is Ruby on Rails backed by a Postgres database and Redis cache.



  • They use redis for caching, it's a quite common to use it for caching.
    Reddit also does that. The main database is Postgres.



  • I've looked at this title for too long and I'm afraid I have to do it

    [northern]
    Fork Discourse...right in its little starhole
    [/northern]

    That's better.



  • Northern?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    Northern?

    I'm going to take a WAG that he is referring to a Northern accent from wherever he is. Presumably Britain, but who fucking knows?

    I am sure it would be hilarious if we had gotten it.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    I'm going to take a WAG that he is referring to a Northern accent from wherever he is.

    Canadians?

    @Polygeekery said:

    Presumably Britain, but who fucking knows?

    Not me, that's sure.

    Maybe he's referring to the railroad?

    @Polygeekery said:

    I am sure it would be hilarious if we had gotten it.

    Oh maybe it's like that "lots of planets have a north" joke from Doctor Who that also made no fucking sense to normal human beings.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh maybe it's like that "lots of planets have a north" joke from Doctor Who that also made no fucking sense to normal human beings.

    That is basically why I assumed they meant Britain. Maybe it would be funny if we said it with a Scottish accent?



  • @JBert said:

    While he might have lost pretty much all his credibility, do you really think he would stoop so low as building in a "backdoor" to decrease user experience?I could imagine some outrage if such a thing were discovered...

    Would you even be able to tell the difference between a Disgruntlebomb, and a Discobomb? Both are just hidden, ticking pieces of code ready to blow up in your faeces.



  • Is there any significant difference in accent between whatever the US equivalent of Received Pronunciation is and the accent of the northern US?

    In this case it was indeed a northern England accent. Lancashire, Yorkshire, etc. In my defence it was late at night and I had forgotten that there are people for whom Dick van Dyke's accent was spot on.



  • And of course, to a person from Scotishland, a "Northerner" is from "Down South".

    It's all relative, yes it is!


  • SockDev

    Is there such a thing as Received Pronunciation in the US?



  • Not really. There's a sort of generic, not from any particular location pronunciation, but that's about as close as it gets.



  • @coldandtired said:

    Is there any significant difference in accent between whatever the US equivalent of Received Pronunciation is and the accent of the northern US?

    There isn't such a thing as a "northern US". I guess during the Civil War that term had meaning, but not so much now. The West Coast/East Coast/Midwest/Southeast divide is far bigger a deal than any possible north/south divide.

    (West Coast is the best.)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    made no fucking sense to normal human beings.

    How would you know?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    The West Coast/East Coast/Midwest/Southeast divide is far bigger a deal than any possible north/south divide.

    There's possibly also be a separate general area between Midwest and West Coast, but there's not that many people there. (I've met a few people from SLC, and they were… different<the mormons are nice enough, but I sure won't convert>.) There might also be a distinctive South West developing.



  • Oh.

    You're talking about Desert People.

    I didn't include them because they're all crazy and I'm pretty sure not even human. They're all over Utah and points south. You know you're in Desert People country because you'll be driving on this highway in the middle of nowhere and you'll suddenly come across this convenience store, and it'll have naked plastic dolls (sometimes just pieces of them) in its front windows on display.

    If you've ever seen the movie Duel, it has a great scene where the guy and truck drive around a Desert Person convenience store, which has a bunch of lizards and snakes on display, while the Desert People woman shrieks and yells at them.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    You're talking about Desert People.

    You speak the truth.



  • GIS :wtf: :interrobang::


  • SockDev



  • @blakeyrat said:

    (West Coast is the best.)

    I still think it's important to establish the run.


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