[Wiki] What should a new forum have?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Here is how I envision this:
    There are 3 categories:
    Must Have
    Nice To Have
    This Should Not Be In Our Software

    if you add something, please add your Username in parethesis after the suggestion

    If you want to discuss any suggestion another use has made, please post about it before and discuss it in this topic


    Must Have
    Topics (Kuro)
    Users (Kuro)
    Posts (Placeholder)
    Cross-Browser Support (Jaming)
    Proper read/unread tracking (Maciejasjmj)
    Site custom CSS / js (boomzilla)
    Good mobile support (Placeholder/Jaming)
    Performant (svieira)
    Low Resource Requirements [not 3 x c4.8xlarge instances to serve 100 people] (svieira)
    Categories/sections (LB_)
    Non-stupid, discoverable, stable markdown. Or BBCode only. (ChrisH)
    Easy image uploads (copy/paste, drag and drop, local caching) (Cartman)
    Quoting posts (LB_)
    Restricted Categories - member-only/not-indexed (aliceif)
    If onebox (nice to have) is implemented, it must be fully customizable — no default whitelist that cannot be overridden (HardwareGeek)
    Performant on "large" threads (boomzilla)
    Not to jump to a random part of the thread on or after load (aka Jellypotato) (dkf / ChaosTheEternal)
    VIM plugin for using the forum inside vim (fbmac)
    A decent user privilege system (Admins/Mods/User/Basic, etc...) (@DoctorJones)
    Search that works. Indexable by external search engines (Zecc)


    Nice To Have
    A bot freindly API (SockDrawer)
    Notifications (Kuro)
    Likes (Zecc)
    Jumping between posts and replies (threaded?) (bb36e)
    Multiple / switchable custom CSS / js (boomzilla)
    Functional (can post/reply) without JS (bb36e)
    Unicode usernames (aliceif)
    :badger:s (rc4)
    Post count + all that fun e-peeny stuff (aliceif)
    Mentions (locallunatic)
    Customizable user pages (asdf)
    Desktop notifications for replies (asdf)
    Private messages between multiple users (Accalia)
    Properly whitelisted HTML support (Maciejasjmj)
    Extensibility (anonymous234)
    Live content updating (anonymous234)
    Can embed YouTube videos, HTML5 videos, and other stuff (anonymous234)
    Smileys (blakeyrat)
    WYSIWYG editor (blakeyrat)
    RSS feeds on categories and topics (blakeyrat)
    Email send/receive (blakeyrat) (or more generally: at minimum, feature parity with circa 2008 Community Server-- come on, people, it's 2015, surely we can manage this)
    Emoji (blakeyrat)
    Option to select between paginated or infinite scroll (blakeyrat)
    Working search (Gaską)
    Viewing raw post source (LB_)
    Polls (Weng)
    A tag cloud to attack (anonymous234)
    OneboxOpen Graph Support (HardwareGeek)
    Saved drafts. Even better if per thread (Zecc)
    Keyboard thread navigation("j" & "k" here) (Jarry)
    Bookmarks/STARS on Posts and Topics (Luhmann)
    Suggestions of what to read next and the end of a thread (Zecc)
    wiki posts (fbmac)
    something like "summarize this post" (fbmac)
    Auto-backups, and ability to import a backup from the GUI (PJH)
    A Lounge category (@DoctorJones)
    t/1000 (@DoctorJones)
    Tracking unread status for each post individually (Ģaska)


    This Should Not Be In Our Software
    Jeff (Kuro)
    > 5 second load times because of ajaxy JS nonsense (bb36e)
    High number of requests due to ajaxy mess (locallunatic)
    Markdown (MathNerdCNU)
    Any reasons to create a "Is it down or just me" sort of website (placeholder)
    Vomiting all over my browser history (ChrisH)
    Hiding the rest of the paragraph if I accidentally type something like "<x" (anonymous234)
    Title is invalid; try to be a little more descriptive (anonymous234)
    Condescending lightboxes (blakeyrat)
    Mouse/key event handlers subvert expected browser behavior (HardwareGeek)
    Previews that do not match the finished post (JazzyJosh)
    Big red warnings about posting too much (Gaśka)
    Condescending pricks who moan at us for filing helpful bug reports (@DoctorJones)


    Filed Under: Have fun

  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Paging @tar because this topic could be of interest to you!

    Filed Under: I also just wanted to actually post in here


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @rc4 While I like badges as well, I would actually rather put that under "Nice to have".

    Filed Under: We can easily "award" things without a badge-system in place



  • No. Non-optional.



  • Agreed. Nice-to-haves. Or we find a plugin-supporting thing and roll our own :imp:



  • Yay! Race conditions!

    @boomzilla, you deleted stuff I wrote including stuff I deleted and put back



  • @Zecc said:

    @boomzilla, you deleted stuff I wrote including stuff I deleted and put back

    Oops. I figured that was going to happen. I hoped it wouldn't be me who done it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Pretty sure everyone here did some race conditions. It's unavoidable....

    Filed Under: From what I can tell there was a race condition that deleted something and then another one that brought it back...


  • area_can

    Don't worry, I had to edit the post 3 times to get my stuff to appear there.


  • area_deu

    Where to put signatures, though ...



  • I'm not touching it again any time soon.

    I might check the history some time later and see if anything was lost and put it back again.
    As of now:

    Copy/paste and drag and drop image uploads (cartman)
    Post count + all that fun e-peeny stuff (aliceif)
    If mobile support is a selling point, it should be taken seriously by the devs. (Placeholder)
    Performant (svieira)
    Low Resource Requirements [not 3 x c4.8xlarge instances to serve 100 people] (svieira)


  • If anywhere "Maybe it could have" as turning them off happens not just because of abuse.



  • Customizable emoji



  • @Kuro said:

    Paging @tar because this topic could be of interest to you!

    Yah, I'm interested in a meta sense... I hope I'm not about to get 800 new users a day on my chinese porn site though... ;``)



  • Shit looks like I raced away some stuff, will try to fix.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Only because sending out 800 new bills per day is hard, right?

    Filed Under: so much work for so little money!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Zecc said:

    Yay! Race conditions!

    /dev/null is available if someone has denied you access to ~/.disco/divorse/../../jeff/bugtracker

    HTH, HAND, etc.



  • @Placeholder I vote we change

    If mobile support is a selling point, it should be taken seriously by the devs. (Placeholder)
    To
    Good mobile support

    I know I use the forum a decent amount on my phone.



  • @jaming: Feel free. Here are my original thoughts on the matter, that I was in the middle of typing as you posted.


    @Placeholder said:

    If mobile support is a selling point, it should be taken seriously by the devs.

    To elaborate, the big problem with Discourse is that they say this:

    ... and deliver this:
    https://what.thedailywtf.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/f/afbf6a835f763625d8d54c001a33f46841e25121.jpg

    I personally won't be bothered if a given forum software doesn't claim to deliver an Optimized Mobile ExperienceTM. However, if that is a major selling point of the software then it needs to be taken seriously.

    • The developers need to care, obviously.
    • It needs to be lightweight
    • (More things that a mobile user would think of).

    I just bought my first internet capable phone yesterday, so mobile support isn't something I have had much time to think about.



  • I completely agree. I think they used to say (or still say somewhere) that Discourse was "born for mobile" which was(/is) a huge lie. I just use the forums enough on mobile devices to want good mobile support instead of just wanting them to make accurate claims about it.



  • Not pinning my phone CPU to 100% would be a "nice to have" for me...



  • I replaced my original image with the one you are referring to. It seems much more appropriate given the context.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Placeholder said:

    More things that a mobile user would think of

    My current experience of Flarum on mobile, since my only experience of it has been restricted to mobile, is that is it needs more work.

    Hence my request for more candidates.

    Let's be honest, we're in the market for new forum software. Go searching for suppliers. Let's not appear as another front page article.

    Personally, I'm impressed with the shiney. I'm less impressed with what I'd be landed with if I'm to be admin with iteration 3 if they were chosen.

    And, no, its not a given I'd be around as caretaker on the next iteration.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @PJH said:

    And, no, its not a given I'd be around as caretaker on the next iteration.

    Even though I never made it to the top of your list, I'd vote for you! ;P

    Filed Under: even if you don't want to!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Markdown (MathNerdCNU)

    @MathNerdCNU
    I'd actually be fine with markdown as an option. I don't really think it's better than BB-Code but I can deal with it! (Just my opinion, though)


    Any reasons to create a "Is it down or just me" sort of website (placeholder)

    @Placeholder
    Since the server can also be down, I think the website will probably stay / be changed. Though I agree that the amount of use that site should get has to be drastically lowered

    Filed Under: I won't change the wiki for that, though. If you guys stay with your opinion thats fine as well!



  • I don't think markdown needs to be a problem. The weird discohtmlbbdown we have here is a problem.



  • I've struck the issue. If there's some sudden influx of fellow Markdown haters then they can unstrike it and Discoursering away.


  • mod

    @PJH said:

    My current experience of Flarum on mobile, since my only experience of it has been restricted to mobile, is that is it needs more work.

    The experience so far on @loopback0's install isn't very encouraging, either. It's a platform that would be worth keeping an eye on if we were willing to wait a year or two, but I don't think it's ready now.



  • Definitely. It has some neat stuff, but not quite ready for prime time. As they openly acknowledge.



  • Agreed.

    At least they admit that upfront though, unlike certain other software.



  • Jinx!



  • @PJH said:

    I'm less impressed with what I'd be landed with if I'm to be admin with iteration 3 if they were chosen.

    We can always boot you out, you know :trolleybus:


  • area_deu

    I still would rather have slightly-buggy software with sane and open developers than super-stable software with bikeshedders that don't listen to us.



  • @PleegWat said:

    I don't think markdown needs to be a problem. The weird discohtmlbbdown we have here is a problem.

    I don't hate markdown; it's fine for what it's intended to be used for. However, it is, by design, only intended for simple markup. By design, if you want more complex markup, you have to fall back to HTML (or BBcode, or whatever). So if you want to allow more than basic formatting in posts, you have to support (at least) htmldown or bbdown, anyway, which kind of defeats the simplicity of markdown. Of course, having a reasonable WYSIWYG editor makes the choice of markup language rather :cow2:.



  • It's not just some bugs - it's somewhat incomplete.
    Like has been said though - the developers point that out. It's not a surprise.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Damn, where does :fa_spin: go in that list? I feel like it's nice to have but I also feel the angry :eyes: you guys will throw at me if I don't put it under must have :D !

    Filed Under: And :eyes: aren't cheap, I'll have you know!



  • Actually I think having good suport for server-side plugins would be great. This is a developer community after all. We could easily add small things like badges.

    Discourse claims it's designed for that, but then they make its code intentionally hard to edit to keep "bad" developers away (where bad = doesn't want to spend 3 hours figuring their weird setup out).



  • @anonymous234 said:

    Actually I think having good suport for server-side plugins would be great. This is a developer community after all. We could easily add small things like badges.

    Yeah, a nicely (and intentionally) extendable platform could be a lot of fun around here.



  • Must have bot-friendly API? Seriously? That's nice-to-have at best.



  • Maybe less "bot-friendly" and more "extension-friendly". I imagine not only bots, but things like the Show Raw button, userscripts and other customizations could benefit from it.



  • Badges are also on the must have list.



  • @MathNerdCNU said:

    I've struck the issue. If there's some sudden influx of fellow Markdown haters then they can unstrike it and Discoursering away.

    I'd be ok with Markdown if there's a WYSIWYG editor for it. (Atlassian's Confluence has one, for example, and it works quite well.)

    The problems with Markdown are:

    1. Strange unpredictable behaviors. Even if you go "by the spec" it's still weird.

    (View this paragraph in Raw:) Look at the difference between this this this this. WTF? If Markdown is supposed to be what people typed for styling on text-only mediums, why isn't italics written like /this/ ? Why doesn't -- expand into an endash? Why doesn't ... expand into an elipsis? Why doesn't underline exist? Why does trying to type underline the obvious way even a 3-year-old would come up with produce italics instead!?

    1. Complete lack of power/flexibility. Again: utterly missing underline is a major problem here. No tables. No image formatting options without going into BBCode/HTML. No spoiler tag or equivalent. No expand-o or equivalent. Markdown doesn't do shit compared to even ancient WYSIWYG JavaScripts.

    BTW, Confluence's specific "dialect" or whatever of Markdown allows for ALL of that and more, it's quite good. It's possible to do Markdown well, is what I'm saying.

    1. Plain ol' bugs, like the list numbering being wrong, or shit turning into GUIDs if you use the wrong combinations of characters. Since it's implemented in a spaghetti mess of RegEx, these are hard to fix even if your development team gives a shit.


  • Added discourse-like image uploads under "must have".

    One of the major reasons I've became active here.



  • @locallunatic said:

    Badges are also on the must have list.

    Needless-to-say, I disagree with that too. No gamification is "must have".



  • There's no error message or anything (natch) but I can't change the subject line of the wiki post.

    Could someone please give this topic a useful subject line? Thanks.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Done

    Filed Under: You are welcome



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Needless-to-say, I disagree with that too. No gamification is "must have".

    has_gamification(discourse).
    good(F) :- has_gamification(F), not(has_gamification(F)).
    
    ?- good(X).
    
    False.
    

    So so far, our forum software "must have" gamification and "must have" no gamification.

    Well shit, looks like we're stuck.



  • It's the first time ever I see Prolog in the wild.



  • +1 for pluginability. I'm willing to donate a few developer hours to extra features if required, especially if I can do them in a :wtf: language like Scheme or something...



  • @Gaska said:

    It's the first time ever I see Prolog in the wild.

    I was in the mood for some masochism.

    My memories of Prolog are rather vividly horrible, but I keep coping with that. At least False. doesn't haunt me every night now.


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