Flarum: Discoclone



  • Oh - it does work once I magically know which fields I filled incorrectly given zero indication that any even were.
    (I do remember reading about someone having similar signup problems here, but even with that knowledge and with trying to change the username/password/email a bunch of times, I still ended up giving up after ~3-5 confounding attempts, assuming signup was just broken for another reason.)



  • All in all, I think it's a worthy successor to Discourse - it generated the most debate, some bug reports/reposts and even hilariously embarrassing communication with the devs.

    EDIT: I also like the aggressive locking of topics over at discuss.flarum; really shaping up to be a good Discourse alternative :smiling_imp:



  • @Jarry said:

    no link, maybe we should report this...

    Symptom of configuring it to work with http and https, I guess.



  • That is really annoying ... literally no feedback


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @CreatedToDislikeThis said:

    Oh - it does work once I magically know which fields I filled incorrectly given zero indication that any even were.

    Password strength. That's the problem if you're not being silly. Their signup flow needs someone to really fix it. (There are some great ways of doing password strength indication, but they use none of them.)


  • BINNED

    @dkf said:

    Password strength. That's the problem if you're not being silly. Their signup flow needs someone to really fix it. (There are some great ways of doing password strength indication, but they use none of them.)

    I was thinking of contributing a bit if I get the time. The login screen is on the top of my list. Also, notifications not streaming in properly. I get that on NodeBB, too. No idea if they messed up WebSocket connections or event handlers. Will take a look tonight if I get the time.



  • @Onyx said:

    I was thinking of contributing a bit if I get the time

    I like this.

    Basically the only currency we have as a forum is our time. Time to file bug reports and to contribute. If we want to put a thorn in Jeff's side the best way would be to find The Real Internet Discussion Forum For the Next Decade and make sure it truly becomes it (instead of discourse).

    Naturally, this should not be the over-all-governing decision criterion, but if all other things are equal, then...



  • @Onyx said:

    I was thinking of contributing a bit if I get the time

    +1.
    I'm curious as to how hard it is to add Maria/mysql to the list of supported DBs.


  • BINNED

    @swayde said:

    I'm curious as to how hard it is to add Maria/mysql to the list of supported DBs.

    Isn't that what it's using now? I actually wanted to add Postgres...

    If they are using PDO, which they should, it shouldn't be too hard. Maybe a few switches will have to be added due to syntax differences, but I'd wager the framework they are using can already handle that.

    Actually...

    System Requirements

    A web server: Apache (with mod_rewrite), Nginx, or Lighttpd
    PHP 5.5+ with the following extensions: mbstring, pdo_mysql, openssl, json, gd, dom, fileinfo
    MySQL 5.5+

    Yup, pdo_mysql. Maria will Just Work™. Postgres should be doable with relatively little work, if it doesn't basically work already (Postgres creation is probably missing in the installer).



  • Oh, this is not the node BB thread... :headdesk:



  • @swayde said:

    Oh, this is not the node BB thread... :headdesk:

    :rolleyes:



  • @Onyx said:

    Isn't that what it's using now? I actually wanted to add Postgres...
    Postgres is what we're using now, and it's keeling over because it doesn't use the kind of indexing we need -- the kind the DiscoDevs thought they had. Fairly certain Flarum makes the same assumptions regarding indexes. Why would we want to torture ourselves with more performance issues?


  • BINNED

    I've had far more issues with speed on MySQL than on Postgres. Granted, I'm nowhere close to being a DBA, but so far I had far less troubles with it. This might be due to the fact I have some fairly complicated views in it, and MySQL's query planner just choked on it, but that's my experience so far at least.

    Also, I'm fairly sure most of the performance issues in Discourse are caused by queries that fetch too much data that are then processed either in ActiveRecord or even on the JS side (remember the whole "all post IDs for a topic get delivered to client" thing).

    Again, I'm by no means an expert and maybe I really shouldn't rush into it before people more knowledgeable of DB stuff pipe up with some opinions.


  • SockDev

    @Onyx said:

    I've had far more issues with speed on MySQL than on Postgres.

    This is my experience as well.

    @Onyx said:

    Also, I'm fairly sure most of the performance issues in Discourse are caused by queries that fetch too much data that are then processed either in ActiveRecord or even on the JS side

    don't forget:

    • missing or undefined relationships between tables (like why is posts not have a FK to topics?)
    • poorly chosen indexes
    • unnecessarily complicated queries

  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @accalia said:

    why is posts not have a FK to topics?

    Foreign keys are Doing It Wrong™? I'm guessing.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @TwelveBaud said:

    it doesn't use the kind of indexing we need

    That's probably because they drive the database definitions from the ActiveRecord side of things, and stuff like “we need these indices and these foreign key relationships” tends to get lost in code-first ORM work.



  • As far as I remember it's no problem in EF or laravell.



  • Another thing which Flarum has going for it, is that it's built on top of PHP. This means that is is more globally available than Ruby and Docker are, and thus it's easier to deploy a new instance of Flarum than it is with Discourse.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @AlexMedia said:

    going for it

    @AlexMedia said:

    PHP

    Compilation Error: Left operand does not match given arguments.
    Paging @arantor

    I see what you're saying though, it's basically using the default setup for anything, anywhere.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @swayde said:

    As far as I remember it's no problem in EF or laravell.

    It doesn't have to be a problem in any ORM (that supports code-first development at all) but it does require some guidance. Indices are particularly likely to need extra hints (though foreign keys might also).


  • BINNED

    @dkf said:

    though foreign keys might also

    That's ok, Discourse has none.



  • more to the point. they use laravel DB thingy. so it may be just adding the option in the config generator.

    I'll see if i can give it a try in the weekend.



  • @Jarry said:

    laravel DB thingy

    I've used it before. I enjoyed it. It's thin enough to enable you to drop down to SQL when bulk/other operations are needed, but you get CRUD for free.


  • BINNED

    So, I got an instance running on cloud9, pulled directly from git.

    Not sure if I hit a bug or configuration issues, but I can't change my password nor create new users... not fun.


  • area_deu

    Or as Tanenbaum said it:

    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.


  • SockDev

    which is, not uncoincidentally, quoted in the article i linked:


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @CreatedToDislikeThis said:

    EDIT: I also like the aggressive locking of topics over at discuss.flarum; really shaping up to be a good Discourse alternative

    I don't fault them for that. We are a raucous bunch. And they did not tell us to GTFO, they told us to go fuck off to the Sandbox category, where it belongs. Which is what they should have done.

    At least they did not wholesale ban us right off the bat. ;)



  • Good summary
    I use it in my work. it uses the active record pattern.
    if the flarum devs used it in a sensible manner, adding postgres support should be a matter of configuring things only



  • Awwww... I was going to sign up for flarum just to post on that thread, then I got to the bottom and discovered the mods had locked it.

    WAIT! Mods can lock a thread on a forum? I thought they just deleted the entire thread, or random posts? Oh wait - that's a DiscoSauce thing, isn't it?

    Anyways, that aside I have to say that the Flarum folks seem hugely more friendly than our chums over at Discotherapy. Plus, they're concerned we might be a bit much for them at this stage so that guarantees some bugs for us to get our fangs into :smile:

    Filed under: Definitely a contender


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Onyx said:

    Discourse has none.

    *theatrical sigh*
    Specially for Discourse… Domestic and Puerto Rican keys.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @skotl said:

    I thought they just deleted the entire thread, or random posts? Oh wait - that's a DiscoSauce thing, isn't it?

    DishCurse can do that too. A Certain Person just thinks that rewriting the world is a better approach.



  • So, I reported a bug with Flarum a few days ago. The bug was rather annoying, but only affected IE11 and Modern IE, so I didn't have my hopes too high.

    It took a while, but:

    I've only been able to test on Edge (using https://remote.modern.ie) and couldn't reproduce there.

    This is pretty critical though, I'll get a VM running and get this fixed.

    and fixed a day or so later.

    Sigh... Is it just me that Discourse made into a hateful pessimist, hopelessly reporting issues, always expecting another WONTFIX with "lol, you're on IE, that's different"? (and speaking of IE, the quote-select hasn't been working for like a year now despite being reported like a billion of times)

    Because honestly, I didn't really expect that to be fixed, and especially not given the commit message.



  • Discodevs actually fixed a lot of bugs that we reported. Especially stuff like that.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Sigh... Is it just me that Discourse made into a hateful pessimist, hopelessly reporting issues, always expecting another WONTFIX with "lol, you're on IE, that's different"? (and speaking of IE, the quote-select hasn't been working for like a year now despite being reported like a billion of times)

    The open source community did that to me long before Discourse was even a thing.

    The more surprising thing to me is that people expected something different from yet another badly-run open source project.



  • If by "stuff like that" you mean "bugs that make the site into an expensive paperweight" - duh, if course they fix those, might as well throw your hands in the air and fuck it all if you don't.

    If by "stuff like that" you mean "bugs on platforms or configurations that aren't used by the majority of users"... No, no they really don't.

    Again - quote-reply, the thing that's pretty essential to how Discourse does discussion, the thing that's necessary on mobile because you can't full quote, the thing that bloody phpBB had figured out just plain doesn't work on Modern IE, and requires workarounds on Dolphin. It's a known bug for a year at least.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    If by "stuff like that" you mean "bugs on platforms or configurations that aren't used by the majority of users"... No, no they really don't.

    OK, yeah...I'll grant you that.


  • SockDev

    Add to that the fact that Discourse is nigh-on unusable on Windows Phone; hell, this most recent update has the entire fucking thread turn white while writing a reply. And you have to refresh the page to get it back again.



  • Hmm, I'll have to try that again. I started using edge seriously in the new version, and it seems to be handling most things well. It even let me log in, which I couldn't do before.


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