Rewrite it!


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Boss+2 is balking at a budget item for an extra test application server. A grand total of like $6k. He has decided that the problem is that we run on a Microsoft platform.

    So he requested that we provide an estimate to convert to Open Systems (whatever that means).

    So... 1.1 million lines of C# and ecosystem friends. I figure about 3/4 of a million bucks to go full open systems (not counting the cost of replacing the entire team) or 80k to switch to mono or whatever the name for the official thing is.

    This will be a fun meeting.


  • area_can

    How do I subscribe to a thread?



  • @bb36e said:

    How do I subscribe to a thread?

    It's Discourse, so by sheer luck normally.



  • $6k is less than this company spends a week on Costco trips. And they're cheap fuckers.

    Never refill the fruit snacks.

    How can you code without fruit snacks.


  • mod

    @bb36e said:

    How do I subscribe to a thread?

    The supported method is:

    Watching feature not guaranteed to work. May randomly revert to Tracking, Regular, or Muted based on phase of the moon, astrological sign, or just because Duckhorse is having a bad day. Watching may or may not lead to an unexpected number of notifications.

    Side effects may include any or all of the following: paranoia, feelings of importance, delusions of grandeur, impotence, hyper-potence, cancer, eye fatigue, lack of a life, distancing oneself from work, hernias, Duckhorse dependence, neck beard, aversion to sunlight, Vitamin D deficiency, general malnutrition, caffeine dependency, migraine, nausea, diarrhea, indigestion, heartburn, upset stomach, dizziness, somnolence, insomnia, blurred vision, dry mouth, drooling, sweating, pain insensitivity, bloody stool, constipation, blurry vision, itching, sneezing, pregnancy, hot flashes, vomiting, weakness, weight loss, weight gain, anemia, cravings for human blood, desire for bikeshedding, attempts to enforce "civilized discourse" through software design, easy bruising, bloody urine, hypothermia, hyperthermia, loss of coordination, fainting, slowed heart rate, increased heart rate, overactive reflexes, and more.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    3/4 Mil is really low balling it I think, since it sounds like you're only considering the Operating system and programming environment migration.
    Don't forget about training, both for the devs and end users, documentation, and a whole slew of administrative red tape that needs to happen.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Training devs is irrelevant - not one of them would stick around. I probably wouldn't, either, unless they slide a few truckloads of that cash my direction.
    End user training is irrelevant - I'm estimating like-for-like (the product in question is a programming platform - think of it as writing another compiler)
    Documentation? The only documentation the existing system has is a Getting Started tutorial for users and a diagram/lecture I give new developers.
    Administrative red tape? Something a Boss+3 wants is instant greenlight pull all the stops. Only thing they'd have to do is hire new developers. And... Er, well, provision new servers to replace the existing ones. Which kind of negates the entire problem here because the problem is that I want to EXPAND my existing dev server pool.

    It's pretty accurate, ignoring the fact that good Java developers cost more than good C# developers all day long, and good developers for truly open systems cost even more than that.

    When this guy says Open Systems, he means Java. His career highlight is a standalone Java application that doesn't even integrate with the rest of the company, and yet he's telling people doing high efficiency systems programming that they've chosen the wrong toolset**

    **The toolset was chosen before anyone currently working in the group was hired. There are ZERO survivors from that era. None of them are even with the company in any capacity - the last one moved on last week.


  • Impossible Mission Players - A

    Ah, so the backstory is now input!
    I adore when higher ups throw their "prior experience" as if it's actually relevant.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    This guy is kind of a jerk and treats us as if we aren't really professionals. He calls it 'challenging assumptions'.

    Which means that periodically he'll take issue with the way some random thing is and then we get to spend inordinate amounts of time explaining to him that YES we considered alternatives and NO none of them make any quantifiable sense to pivot towards. It's particularly fun in cases where:

    1. We agree wholeheartedly that the way we do something is objectively the worst option (and we said so at the time) but it was forced on us by the inability for managers to authorize us to spend even a little tiny bit of money to do things right, and now it'll cost ten times as much to unfuck the situation (to date we have never been authorized to unfuck the situation)

    or

    1. The perceived problem is really just a holy war crusade/debate.

    or

    1. The decision was made before any of us even worked for the company and cannot be undone without reset-buttoning vast swathes of stuff built on top of the decision being questioned.

    This case is a solid #2 and #3, and some elements of it are in fact in category #1.

    Oh, and assumptions are NEVER challenged during design/planning/etc. phases. Only during implementation or long after the horse has left the barn, lived a full life and died of natural causes.


  • area_can

    hyper-potence

    Hmm...



  • @Weng said:

    2) The perceived problem is really just a holy war crusade/debate.

    This was one of the reasons I left my IT job back in 1999. Every department was a fiefdom in the location I worked in, and I found out the hard way that the acquiring company was quite similar.

    The SECOND DAY they took away my admin rights [yes I'm the WTF for not leaving the first day] (keep in mind I was the Network Engineer and also administered the engineering department servers), I called up a contact who offered me a job 3 months earlier and asked if that was still open. Next day I walked in with resignation in hand. They paid me 50% over normal salary to stay a few months past Y2K to ensure the systems wouldn't break [ A) Local management knew I was the only one left who knew what he was doing, and B) I already informed them that the key systems were Y2K tested and ready, but they wanted "to be sure". Ok, I'll take the extra pay, thanks.]


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Weng said:

    Boss+2 is balking at a budget item for an extra test application server. A grand total of like $6k. He has decided that the problem is that we run on a Microsoft platform.

    We are talking one more server, right? $5,300 of that is likely hardware as a Windows Server license is $700. I suppose if you are running MSSQL that ups the licensing costs a good chunk. Even if all $6K were MS licenses, his decision is still retarded.

    And Jesus Fuck, it is just a damned test server. He should just sign the PO and get on with it.

    Time to go job hunting.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    It's a VM. A low spec one. Only license on it is Windows. Crappier than the shitheap laptops they give us.

    I've posted about our outsourced datacenters insane rates before.

    You should have seen the bricks shat when we needed SQL Server enterprise edition. Easy 150k for one single solitary server license.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @Weng said:

    I've posted about our outsourced datacenters insane rates before.

    Oh yes. I remember now. So he is overlooking TR :wtf: and is going to throw the baby out with the bath water on something else?

    Yeah, it is...

    @Polygeekery said:

    Time to go job hunting.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    I'm going to hang around a bit longer because they're chopping the company into three new companies by the end of 2016 and I feel that my life would be incomplete without watching that train wreck.

    And that train wreck smells like it might have some extremely mercenary opportunities so I can lie to myself about it being good for my career and bank balance.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    You are getting your money's worth out of those ninja edits.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    When forums started adding edit buttons (anyone remember when that wasn't a thing?) it was a fucking revelation.



  • @abarker said:

    Side effects may include any or all of the following

    Unedited Footage of a Bear | Infomercials | Adult Swim – 10:29
    — Adult Swim

    Call your doctor immediately if you have someone's face all over you, as this could become permanent.



  • I was watching that and then you edited your post and it reset the video.

    That's something that is a Discourse-only feature. No other forum can fuck up a video being watched by a user who didn't refresh the page after someone added text to the bottom of their post.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    I was watching that and then you edited your post and it reset the video.

    Probably did you a kindness. You're too young to be exposed to unedited footage of bears.


  • area_deu

    Phew, at least it won't cause ebola.


  • mod

    @aliceif said:

    Phew, at least it won't cause ebola.

    That's covered by "and more". But at least they're close to a vaccine now!



  • It's also good for all of us!
    :popcorn:



  • @Weng said:

    Open Systems (whatever that means)

    Actually it will be quite cheap.



  • @abarker said:

    @aliceif said:
    Phew, at least it won't cause ebola.

    That's covered by "and more". But at least they're close to a vaccine now!

    A vaccine for ebola, or Discourse's "watching" feature?



  • @abarker said:

    blurred vision [...] blurry vision

    My vision is still fine.



  • @abarker said:

    Watching feature not guaranteed to work. May randomly revert to Tracking, Regular, or Muted

    Hmm... how hard could a working "watching" feature be...?


  • mod

    @tar said:

    Hmm... how hard could a working "watching" feature be...?

    We are talking about the discodevs.



    1. Scroll down to the bottom of the thread
    2. Type mm
    3. Think of what would happen if you did #2 without #1.


  • It's pinned to the button only??

    :facepalm:

    The keystroke makes it worse.

    And it gets worse.

    You can type the keystroke, but you need a mouse to use the menu.

    This is why I like desktop apps better than web apps.

    How do you capture arrow keystrokes for the menu you popped up?



  • Did you not hit m twice? There's a designated two-letter code for each of the "fuck up your thread status" cheat codes.


  • area_can

    My phone doesn't seem to have an m key, where can I find it



  • Discourse isn't supported on mobile.


  • sockdevs

    @bb36e said:

    My phone doesn't seem to have an m key

    But does it have an any key?



  • That suggests it's supported on desktop.



  • Well, naturally, bug reports for desktop are handled completely different from mobile ones.


  • sockdevs

    Yep; desktop bugs in the black bin, mobile bugs in the green bin :smile:



  • They get handled?!

    Also, I don't think many people suffer mobile for long enough to make bug reports from it :laughing:


  • sockdevs

    Usually because the battery's died



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Yep; desktop bugs in the black bin, mobile bugs in the green bin :smile:

    That's the direction I was thinking in, yes.



  • @PleegWat said:

    @RaceProUK said:
    Yep; desktop bugs in the black bin, mobile bugs in the green bin :smile:

    That's the direction I was thinking in, yes.

    Is this a UK thing? I'm guessing one, if not both, of these are what we'd call the "circular file," but what is the significance of the colors? Trash and recycling (usually blue over here) are what come to mind for me.


  • sockdevs

    The colours vary depending on local authority; where I am, it's black for general waste, blue for paper, and brown for glass. But where my parents live, it's all black bins; black lids for general waste, green lids for recycling.

    Basically, I just went for colours that would be fairly obvious as general waste and recycling :smile:



  • Fair enough; you succeeded. (I'd have reversed the colors, myself. There's at least some small chance something useful might be made of desktop bug reports; it's the mobile ones that will be buried in the landfill, never to be seen again.)


  • sockdevs

    Huh... didn't think of that...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @RaceProUK said:

    where I am, it's black for general waste, blue for paper, and brown for glass. But where my parents live, it's all black bins; black lids for general waste, green lids for recycling.

    Green for general waste. Grey for paper. Black for glass and metal. Brown for garden waste. We share the paper and glass/metal bins with our neighbours so that we don't have to have quite so many bins on the property.



  • Green for garden waste, blue for recycling, black for everything else.


  • sockdevs

    Green for general waste, blue for recycling, oversided items by custom (expensive) arrangement or bring them to the transfer station yourself and pay pennies on the dollar compared to having them picked up curbside.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @accalia said:

    oversided items

    I know what you're meaning to say, but this puts me in mind of tessellated regular octagons.



  • @dkf said:

    We share the paper and glass/metal bins with our neighbours

    Here, you generally don't have your own bins if you live in any sort of housing estate - just big containers shared between every few blocks of flats.

    Personal bins are a thing on the outskirts, but then you generally don't get separate ones for recyclables. And on the outskirts, most people burn their trash anyway.


  • mod

    @bb36e said:

    My phone doesn't seem to have an m key, where can I find it

    You're on mobile? That's different.


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