WTFy story



  • This is a story about someone switching to Linux because of a WTF: Windows screwup forces Ubuntu shift



  • Yeah, those restore CDs are an absolute pain in the ass.  Unfortunately it is pretty much standard these days, but I've never heard of anyone going so far as to disable F6 driver installation.  Bastards!  On the other hand they are selling it in a bundle with their hardware so HP (or anyone else) doesn't really have any obligation to support other hardware.  Still, it's kind of a dickish thing to do.



  • Be grateful they even give CDs, and not just a "recovery partition", with an option to burn CDs that can only be done once.



  • So the guy is complaining that he can't violate the OEM license?



  • I think he's complaining that he was thwarted at every turn from installing just about anything that wasn't part of the original MS/HP install.  And I certainly agree with him.  While not this same story, I've had many similar ones, especially with custom Dell motherboards and power supplies, whose replacement prices where several times more than that of current generics.

    Removing drivers that aren't needed as part of the bundled system and disabling the ability to install extra ones as part of the reinstall isn't a matter of preventing violation of an OEM license, it's a dirty tactic to encourage vendor lock-in.  It would be like buying a car and being told, "If it needs to be repaired, take it to the original dealer.  There is no hood release, so only they can repair it."  No thanks. 



  • Interesting...


    I have a HP notebook (business model). It came with all the discs I could need, restore discs, XP disc and discs for the bundled software. 

    Maybe that's because it's a business machine and they aren't so generous with the consumer models. In that case, WTF is this guy doing setting up a consumer model PC as a server!? That means it will have a like expectancy of 1yr max, assuming it's on pretty much 24/7, like servers tend to be!

    Secondly, the XP serial wouldn't work with other XP CD's? Sounds fishy, maybe he was trying an OEM key on a retail disc or something.
    From my experiance, there are only three classes of XP serials; Retail, OEM Gold/SP1 and OEM SP2. An OEM SP2 disc will take all OEM keys, but the other discs only take their "proper" keys.

    Also, "disabled" is really the wrong word for the F6 thing. Likely that the restore disc used some image-based backup solution (think Norton Ghost), thus the F6 option isn't there to be disabled.



  • [quote user="ShadowWolf"]

    So the guy is complaining that he can't violate the OEM license?

    [/quote]

    Hmm, that's an interesting question - does the license prevent you from replacing the hard-disk that comes with an oem installation of windows on it?
    Does anyone know?

     



  • Regardless of the license, the wtf is the consultant himself.  You would think if he's setting up computers for a business that he might have a clue as to what he should be buying and what it will require...



  • Microsoft nowadays is a big WTF itself - it hoards everything, in fact, Microsoft is basically the cause of Vendor Lock-In OS-wise on many systems nowadays, M$ says "We own you and you can't do anything to us or about us" - Additionally, OEMs think they can lock-in customers into using a specific OS, a specific drivers for stuff, so what do they do? they irratate customers by locking them in. Then when something goes really wrong like a hard disk screwup (With that golden "Restore" partition on it) - the customers cannot get anywhere once outside of the warranty (usual time for stuff to begin crumbling)

     And they have NO place disabling that F6 driver install method. They don't have to support it, But it doesn't mean it shouldn't be available, companies treat everyone like stupid know-nothings nowadays -- most times it's them who are the stupid bunch

     

    And Re: Desktop machines as servers

    Oh, and consumer desktop machines can be used as servers given the correct specs. in fact, I run a 24x7 server myself that has been going strong for 5-6 years in service. it uses alot of desktop hardware.

     the basic definition of a server is just a computer without fancy multimedia equipment that can handle the load that's perscribed for it - it's just common sight in the IT world that you see servers that are labeled as servers by the OEM.
     



  • [quote user="mallard"]Secondly, the XP serial wouldn't work with other XP CD's? Sounds fishy, maybe he was trying an OEM key on a retail disc or something.

    From my experiance, there are only three classes of XP serials; Retail, OEM Gold/SP1 and OEM SP2. An OEM SP2 disc will take all OEM keys, but the other discs only take their "proper" keys.

    [/quote]

    What I got out of the story was that he was mentioning that the OEM key won't work if you have backup media (sometimes including another OEM's):

    The key that comes with the HP box is restricted to the version of
    Windows on the restore CD. Vanilla XP will not work, nor will any of
    the copies I have lying around.

    Not that he actually tried to perform the procedure and waste a good 30-60 minutes, but just to let the few folks still living under a rock know that the OEM key won't work without the OEM install, and thus your option is to buy another copy or go with another OS option.

    If anything, I'd fault him for using HP, but in the low-end system department (who needs a multi-cpu 3ghz box with hot-swap memory and SCSI for a 5-system file server?) it's a total crapshoot whether you'll get something cheap and stable for years or cheap and junk.



  • [quote user="luke727"]On the other hand they are selling it in a bundle with their hardware so HP (or anyone else) doesn't really have any obligation to support other hardware.[/quote]

    When I buy a PC, I do so with the expectation that I'll be able to replace standard parts with commodity hardware.

    Just like when I buy a car, I expect that I can go to any mechanic and have him replace my tires with anything that fits, rather than tell me, "Oh, sorry, your toyota's engine won't start unless you use the original toyota tires"

    Were a brand to become notorious for this sort of lock-in, I'd stop purchasing their brand entirely. 



  • If you glance through the OEM license for Windows XP, you'll see that it states the OS is only licensed for the specific hardware on which it's activated.  Because the OEM (HP) activated it for you, you cannot change or update the hardware without buying a retail license, which includes allowances for hardware changes.  It's not your fault or Microsoft's fault that they bought an OEM license for your copy of XP.  But you can't blame them for saving about $40 - $60 per PC.

     What this guy obviously wanted was a VLK or Site License - or he needs to buy a real copy of Windows that you'd get if you bought a real server.

     Any consultant worth a grain of salt who has worked in Windows deployment scenarios should be aware of MS licensing.  It's likely that this wasn't even a Windows XP CD and he was just using a custom OEM Copy or HP's own norton-esque restoration utility that looks amazingly similar (yet isn't).

     Whether this is retarded or not...well, that's another conversation :-P  Fact is, the guy might wanna brush up on his licensing stuff :-)



  • I don't really like some of the things that Microsoft does, but damn people need to get their facts straight.
    The first, Minor thing is that an HP 5100 is a Laser Printer.   So I doubt he installed 5 of them.  HP's business desktops ate called dx2XX or something similar, and their consumer desktops are like n520p or something like that.

    Secondly, I've been installing XP on HP business machines for years, and I've never had it tell me I'm using a bad key.  Slipstreamed disk or no, HP disk, or just XP CD I have, I've never had this problem.  Now if this were Windows 98, we'd be talking, cause they did pull that kind of crud back then.

    Thirdly, A TX2300 is an entry level / hobbist card at best.  Anyone installing one of these in a production environment should be shot.

    This reeks of that kind of Computer guy that's the most dangerous.   Knows just enough to convince people he knows a lot, and doesn't see the real difference in server level hardware vs. consumer level hardware.  I bet the guy bought off the shelf Western Digital SATA drives, too.  (Edit: Oh yeah.  He did.  Good job there, guy.)

     

     



  • [quote user="Zork"]

    I don't really like some of the things that Microsoft does, but damn people need to get their facts straight.
    The first, Minor thing is that an HP 5100 is a Laser Printer.   So I doubt he installed 5 of them.  HP's business desktops ate called dx2XX or something similar, and their consumer desktops are like n520p or something like that. 

    [/quote]

     OK, this is my bad.  There are some Compaq dc5100s that could be the PC he is installing.
     



  • [quote user="Zork"]Thirdly, A TX2300 is an entry level / hobbist card at best.  Anyone installing one of these in a production environment should be shot.

    <snip>

    I bet the guy bought off the shelf Western Digital SATA drives, too.[/quote]
     

    Again, would you rather spend $500 or whatever a "proper" RAID card costs for a 5-desktop office? Personally, I would just use md/whatever windows has for software raid. Free, good performance, no need to worry about failing controllers, etc.



  • [quote user="SpComb"]

    [quote user="Zork"]Thirdly, A TX2300 is an entry level / hobbist card at best.  Anyone installing one of these in a production environment should be shot.

    <snip>

    I bet the guy bought off the shelf Western Digital SATA drives, too.[/quote]
     

    Again, would you rather spend $500 or whatever a "proper" RAID card costs for a 5-desktop office? Personally, I would just use md/whatever windows has for software raid. Free, good performance, no need to worry about failing controllers, etc.

    [/quote]

     

    Actually, I would explain to the clients that they can pay me the $150/hr 4 hours each time I come out to replace / fix equipment they saved $200 on, or spend the money now and get equipment designed to run for years at a time.

     

    Although, I would probably just resort to a software RAID as well.

     

     



  • [quote user="Zork"][quote user="SpComb"]

    [quote user="Zork"]Thirdly, A TX2300 is an entry level / hobbist card at best.  Anyone installing one of these in a production environment should be shot.

    <snip>

    I bet the guy bought off the shelf Western Digital SATA drives, too.[/quote]
     

    Again, would you rather spend $500 or whatever a "proper" RAID card costs for a 5-desktop office? Personally, I would just use md/whatever windows has for software raid. Free, good performance, no need to worry about failing controllers, etc.

    [/quote]

     

    Actually, I would explain to the clients that they can pay me the $150/hr 4 hours each time I come out to replace / fix equipment they saved $200 on, or spend the money now and get equipment designed to run for years at a time.

     

    Although, I would probably just resort to a software RAID as well.

     

     

    [/quote]

    speaking of failing drives... are there any good hard drives left in the world? Hitachi drives are about as long-lived as maxtors now, and i don't want to use either. i picked up a WD server series SATA drive the other day, i am wondering how long it will last.

    --says the guy with 1.5TB on his home network



  • I work in a small IT company (we sell hardware and administer networks for a limited range of clients and also sell the in-house accounting software), and we've had similar problems with brand name PCs. No way to get real install discs, only restore CDs, which consist of automatic TrueImage restore-to-disk (or something similar), which always include a ton of crapware. Every whitebox vendor here gives you the easy-to-use-as-you-wish OEM Windows CD, but getting them for the brand name computers is almost impossible. I ended up rolling out my own install CDs by copying the contents of C:\i386 directory to a bootable CD (with some help from nLite), since it's faster to reinstall than trying to clean up the mess those restore CDs do (and the key works with CD prepared this way).

    WTF is with the forum changing the spaces to non-breaking ones?



  • It is possible to change the keys that anc XP disk will allow you to use. The file to look at is setupp.ini in i386. If you have the original setupp.ini PID codes for the key you want to use, then you swap that into setupp.ini on the new disk and burn it. Pop that in the drive and laugh as it lets you use the oem key :)



  • @Zork said:

    HP's business desktops ate called dx2XX or something similar, and their consumer desktops are like n520p or something like that.

    Um... wrong. The 5100 class workstations do in fact exist. Got one right here.

    (Reboots workstation on bench and hits F10 for setup, then chooses "System Information":)

        Product Name HP dx5150 MT(PE679AV)

    So I don't think you have any room to be questioning someone else's credentials.

     


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