How to troll leftists - level hard



  • TL;DR: gay rights activists criticize gay parade going through mostly-muslim territories because it's so racist.



  • LOL. Shoot the messenger!

    Cognitive dissonance is fun from the outside.



  • If you're organizing a gay pride just to piss off other people, you're abusing it pretty hard. It should be called hate pride. But hey, nobody has to join. And when they claim that they speak for gay people, just laugh in their face and tell them they're... um, not gay?

    I will read "Trolls got stones thrown at them" and not "Gays got stones thrown at them".



  • @gleemonk said:

    If you're organizing a gay pride just to piss off other people, you're abusing it pretty hard.

    No one means to piss off anyone. Just like that penguin guy didn't mean to make fun of his school principal. They just want to fight for gay rights, just like that guy wants to fight for penguin rights.

    And even if they do mean malice, the opponents' reasoning why this parade is bullshit is totally backwards.



  • @gleemonk said:

    If you're organizing a gay pride just to piss off other people, you're abusing it pretty hard.

    Which people are they really trying to piss off? Isn't one of the traditional points of pride parades to piss off certain people ("We're here, we're queer, get used to it!")?

    I would honestly be surprised if anyone shows up, because even if they're too civilized to criticize Muslims for being violent against people who do haram things, they probably aren't stupid enough not to realize it. You're just not supposed to admit that you noticed how barbarous those guys are, because that's racist.


  • BINNED

    Islam is not a race, perhaps someone likes to conflate the two and idiots buy it.



  • I'm sure you've committed some sort of microaggression here, but I'm not sure which one exactly or at whom it would be directed.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I'm sure you've committed some sort of microaggression here, but I'm not sure which

    That's racist.


  • BINNED

    For them not to be racist, perhaps they should have planned the march to go through that neighborhood, then have them all walk off of a tall building, or a broken bridge conveniently half-constructed for this purpose in that area. This is what happens when a march to fix a true phobia, clashes with a made-up phobia. Next is to get the right of women to vote away, if they happen to pass by such neighborhood more that twice a month, what else ...

    If anything the gay prides MUST go through religious neighborhoods, specially Muslim neighborhoods because Muslim countries are where LGBT suffer the most. But it is not convenient, and these useful idiots want to have everyone love them.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    Cognitive dissonance is fun from the outside.

    Yeah, notice here in the US nobody but Steven Crowder is going into Muslim bakeries asking for a gay wedding cake. Apparently it's only bad to refuse to do that if you're not Muslim.



  • @Gaska said:

    No one means to piss off anyone. Just like that penguin guy didn't mean to make fun of his school principal.

    ?

    @Gaska said:

    They just want to fight for gay rights, [...].

    I don't believe them.

    @Gaska said:

    And even if they do mean malice, the opponents' reasoning why this parade is bullshit is totally backwards.

    Yes, they don't handle trolls well. Popcorn is warranted.

    @boomzilla said:

    Isn't one of the traditional points of pride parades to piss off certain people ("We're here, we're queer, get used to it!")?

    Yes. But here we see pride not to be a muslim. Fuck those guys. They're not trying to bring people together.

    @boomzilla said:

    [realize] Muslims [are] being violent against people who do haram things

    How could this not be understood as racist? You would have to, at the very least, qualify with "some of the" or "extremist" to even be admitted to the discussion. I understand what you are trying to say, and I agree to a large extent. I just don't see how we should let assholes take advantage of the situation to present themselves as fighters for [insert oppressed minority] when all they want is to pick a fight.

    @dse said:

    Islam is not a race

    Yes, not all the people looking like a typical muslim are muslims. Guess what racists do best? Conflate.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    I'm sure you've committed some sort of microaggression here, but I'm not sure which one exactly or at whom it would be directed.

    It's committed against everyone who acts as if disagreement with Islam is racism, of course, because you're preventing them from shutting down discussion.



  • @dse said:

    For them not to be racist,

    So pointing out how intolerant Muslims are makes them racist?



  • @gleemonk said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Isn't one of the traditional points of pride parades to piss off certain people ("We're here, we're queer, get used to it!")?

    Yes. But here we see pride not to be a muslim. Fuck those guys. They're not trying to bring people together.

    Huh?

    @gleemonk said:

    @boomzilla said:
    [realize] Muslims [are] being violent against people who do haram things

    How could this not be understood as racist? You would have to, at the very least, qualify with "some of the" or "extremist" to even be admitted to the discussion. I understand what you are trying to say, and I agree to a large extent. I just don't see how we should let assholes take advantage of the situation to present themselves as fighters for [insert oppressed minority] when all they want is to pick a fight.

    Oh, fuck off with that qualifying bullshit. The cries of racism are by the people offended that anyone noticed [that it's dangerous to be gay in a European Muslim neighborhood]. This is as ludicrous as people getting offended when someone suggest women use common sense and learn to defend themselves.



  • @boomzilla said:

    it's dangerous to be gay in a European Muslim neighborhood

    Valid point.

    @gleemonk said:

    You would have to, at the very least, qualify with "some of the" or "extremist" to even be admitted to the discussion.

    Also valid point.

    The problem is, even if in your 1000-people neighbourhood there are 999 Nobel Peace Prize Muslim candidates and 1 guy who's gonna blow your parade up with a glob of semtex, it's still dangerous.



  • If the protesters were honest, they would have complained about the organizers looking to put parade participants in harms way. But they probably can barely admit that to themselves because it sounds so horribly Islamophobic / racist / whatever, so instead they project their revulsion at their own thoughts onto the organizers.

    If they really believed that it was simply a racist assumption of the organizers that the parade would result in violence, they'd say that and encourage people to join in order to prove the haters wrong. I suspect that even in Sweden there are few people that deluded about multicultural issues.



  • @boomzilla said:

    I suspect that even in Sweden there are few people that deluded about multicultural issues.

    I wouldn't be so sure.



  • Welp...

    • Swedish tradition does not mean that all Swedes are participating. It is certainly more Swedes who participate in the celebration of Ramadan than eating fermented herring in August and definitely more than that in Lillhärdal commemorates prayer Monday. Nevertheless, fermented herring and prayer Monday are Swedish traditions and so should also Ramadan be considered as, he says.


  • Which just shows how meaningless the whole "tradition" thing is :trolleybus:



  • It's quibbling over the meaning of "is." OK, sure, some people in Sweden have a tradition of Ramadan. It's obviously imported and fairly recent. The weasel wording is probably a similar reflection of fear like the the people claiming racism in the OP's article.



  • How to be a complete arsehole:

    Option 1. Commit acts of violence against participants in a gay pride march.

    Option 2. Organize a march with the express intent of inciting Option 1 arseholes to violence, in order to ratchet up politically useful hatred against the wider Muslim community.

    Come July 29, I guess we'll see which kind of complete arsehole is the stupider kind.

    My confident predictions:

    1. Acts of violence will indeed be committed by people of vaguely Arabic appearance, and context-free footage of these will be uploaded to YouTube within minutes and go viral within hours.

    2. After the fuss has had time to die down, people still paying attention to this issue will find strong evidence that all of the violence was actually perpetrated by out-of-neighborhood provocateurs sourced from Rent-A-Thug by the march organizers.

    3. When that evidence does emerge it will be essentially ignored by the conservative megaphone operators currently trumpeting the announcement of this farcical "pride" march, as they will be far too busy with their ongoing denouncement of that dreadful Muslim intolerance; also, Sharia law wharrrgarbl.



  • The strong opposition to organizing the pride makes me think no one has to even hire anybody for tragedy to happen. I mean, would you buy bottled sand if you were on a beach?



  • @flabdablet said:

    After the fuss has had time to die down, people still paying attention to this issue will find strong evidence that all of the violence was actually perpetrated by out-of-neighborhood provocateurs sourced from Rent-A-Thug by the march organizers.

    Is this a thing that's happened somewhere already?

    @flabdablet said:

    Option 2. Organize a march with the express intent of inciting Option 1 arseholes to violence, in order to ratchet up politically useful hatred against the wider Muslim community.

    But...if they hate gays, aren't we supposed to hate them? Seriously, though, I agree, it's a dick move if your motives aren't to really confront the Muslims with their intolerance but just to prove how ridiculous lefty apologists for Islam are. I still predict that it doesn't happen.



  • @flabdablet said:

    Come July 29, I guess we'll see which kind of complete arsehole is the stupider kind.Windows 10 comes out and no one here will notice anything about this story for at least 3 days, during which time they'll complain a lot.

    Man, I think I'm better than you at this whole 'prescience' thing.


  • BINNED

    1. Why do you think everybody who disagrees with you is conservative?
    2. What is the original purpose of a gay parade, if not to teach societies a lesson?
    3. If a church tries to stifle the rights of gays (say in proposition 8), what would be the right choice of action by activists? to abandon all gay right movement or pursue it with more fervor? Which one is more convenient?
    4. What if that church is not an LDS church (which are too nice a people) and instead will harm LGBT on daily basis?

    This is Sweden, not a third world country and police is supposed to protect the pride parade, if they cannot do a parade there in fear of a religion in Sweden :wtf: what about LGBT living in Muslim countries, aren't they human enough, or maybe do not exist?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Gaska said:

    would you buy bottled sand if you were on a beach?

    Maybe:

    :tropical_drink:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    Is this a thing that's happened somewhere already?

    G8 protests, Ferguson, etc.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @gleemonk said:
    @boomzilla said:
    Isn't one of the traditional points of pride parades to piss off certain people ("We're here, we're queer, get used to it!")?

    Yes. But here we see pride not to be a muslim. Fuck those guys. They're not trying to bring people together.

    Huh?

    The Swedish Democrats are a right-wing party which opposes gay marriage, last I heard. There are individuals which both accept a gay lifestyle and oppose gay marriage. But I get very suspicious when these guys assume the role of protector of sexual minorities.

    Look, let me preemptively godwin this discussion. When a bunch of guys organizes a "better business" march through a jewish quarter, will you cheer them on because it's for a good cause?



  • @FrostCat said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Is this a thing that's happened somewhere already?

    G8 protests, Ferguson, etc.

    Well, yeah, it's a common leftist thing. But has anyone ever framed Muslims acting violently against things they perceive as incompatible with Islam, especially when it's waved under their nose?

    @flabdablet, why do you think that media outlets all over the world will refuse to run Muhammad cartoons but will show other things obviously offensive to other religions? The new guy running Charlie Hebdo is honest enough to admit (after getting shot by Muslims upset about what they ran) that he doesn't want to die, so he won't be doing that any more.



  • @gleemonk said:

    The Swedish Democrats are a right-wing party which opposes gay marriage, last I heard. There are individuals which both accept a gay lifestyle and oppose gay marriage. But I get very suspicious when these guys assume the role of protector of sexual minorities.

    I agree. I'm sure they're making a bigger point here.

    @gleemonk said:

    Look, let me preemptively godwin this discussion. When a bunch of guys organizes a "better business" march through a jewish quarter, will you cheer them on because it's for a good cause?

    This is a really weird analogy. So...the better business bureau are the gays here, the Jews are the Muslims, and the organizers aren't really about better business, but for some reason they think that the Jews aren't either, but the bien pensant supporters of the BBB also believe the Jews hate better business but won't criticize the Jews because raisins.

    But then I don't apologize for world class homophobes by calling the people calling the homophobes out as racist.



  • @boomzilla said:

    But then I don't apologize for world class homophobes by calling the people calling the homophobes out as racist.

    Probably because of privilege. Or something.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    But has anyone ever framed Muslims acting violently against things they perceive as incompatible with Islam, especially when it's waved under their nose?

    Well, there's the video Steven Crowder made going into Muslim bakeries asking them to bake gay wedding cakes, but I don't think he was looking for violence per se.



  • @FrostCat said:

    @boomzilla said:
    But has anyone ever framed Muslims acting violently against things they perceive as incompatible with Islam, especially when it's waved under their nose?

    Well, there's the video Steven Crowder made going into Muslim bakeries asking them to bake gay wedding cakes, but I don't think he was looking for violence per se.

    Yeah, but that's trolling them, not paying Mexicans to commit violence and then claim it was Muslims. I'm just trying to peel back @flabdablet's tinfoil a bit to see if there's any there there.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    to see if there's any there there.

    Just for the sake of completeness, right?



  • Well, he came in and threw out a whole bunch of unsubstantiated assertions in what looked like a similar reaction to the RACIST criers we're talking about. I'm just wondering if he hasn't followed the news in several years or just trusts the voices in his head over the voices on the TV.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    I bet it's "only follows a particular brand of news," to wit, the kind that says "all criticism of {Obama,Muslims,etc} must be due solely to racism and cannot possibly be reasoned objection to whatever it is, no matter that such criticism might be applied to white people about the exact same thing."



  • @boomzilla said:

    I agree. I'm sure they're making a bigger point here.

    The problem is that they are islamophobic, so I must presume their bigger point is about that.

    @boomzilla said:

    This is a really weird analogy. So...the better business bureau are the gays here, the Jews are the Muslims, and the organizers aren't really about better business, but for some reason they think that the Jews aren't either, but the bien pensant supporters of the BBB also believe the Jews hate better business but won't criticize the Jews because raisins.

    But then I don't apologize for world class homophobes by calling the people calling the homophobes out as racist.

    The analogy replaces the idea that "muslims are homophobic" with "jews have shady business practices". Both ideas are true, when you pick out individuals. So when organizing a protest, just tell everybody you're not against them in general right? The problem with that is that it's those very Democrats that claim that Islam will destroy Sweden.

    Even just an endorsement from this party would rankle the usual Gay Pride organizsers. Most gays would not want to identify with them if they'd stage a march in any place at all.



  • @gleemonk said:

    The problem is that they are islamophobic, so I must presume their bigger point is about that.

    It seems to me that they're trying to point out a rational reason to be anti-Muslim.

    @gleemonk said:

    The problem with that is that it's those very Democrats that claim that Islam will destroy Sweden.

    What if they're right? I get that you disagree with their intentions. I don't really know anything about these guys, but they certainly have a point here, even if everything else about them is odious.

    @gleemonk said:

    The analogy replaces the idea that "muslims are homophobic" with "jews have shady business practices". Both ideas are true, when you pick out individuals.

    So you're saying that it's anti-semitic to expose horribly shady business practices, at least if the people doing the exposing have some slightly questionable business ethics.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @boomzilla said:

    I'm just trying to peel back @flabdablet's tinfoil a bit to see if there's any there there.

    This is your brain. This is your brain on Progressivism. Any questions?

    :trollface:



  • @gleemonk said:

    The problem is that they are islamophobic, so I must presume their bigger point is about that.

    I'd argue they're not really islamophobic. Sure, they hate Muslims, and they want them out of their country because they fear they will massacre native Swedes, but "phobia" is an irrational fear, and I think their fear is rather justified.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Gaska said:

    but "phobia" is an irrational fear

    Didn't you get the memo? Phobia was redefined with a persuasive definition years ago.




  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place



  • @Gaska could care less.



  • Yep, definitely. I should try to ignore it more.

    BTW @antiquarian, why haven't you linked this:


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Because the point was that it's not a new thing.



  • I think @Gaska's a fairly young guy and definitely not a native English speaker, so he can be excused (by me) for not understanding the ins and outs of politically correct English.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    That's a fair point, but in that case he's not really in a position to question the term "Islamophobia". He should leave that to us old farts.

    Filed under: get off my lawn



  • Question EverythingNothing!



  • @boomzilla said:

    not understanding the ins and outs of politically correct English

    Oh, I do understand all of that. I'm just mocking it.


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