Wonder what this will do to the divorce rate …


  • mod

    the hackers … were threatening to release all Ashley Madison's customer records if the website isn't shut down.

    I can't help but find this hilarious. Of course, I also think that Ashley Madison's customers may be getting what they deserve.



  • Related article on the same site has this quote that you think people would know by now:

    The lesson: If you give a company your name, credit card number, photo -- don't expect it to stay secret forever.

    Though the descriptors they use about computer security are awful like you would expect at least they kinda get the point across.



  • Probably nothing. The data's best use is blackmail, and it's hard to make a bulk blackmail personal. You'd never end up blackmailing enough people simultaneously to for it to be noticeable. It will probably be quite lucrative if there's anyone important on those lists.

    IIRC, it's not the first time they've been hacked, either.


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    @rad131304 said:

    The data's best use is blackmail, and it's hard to make a bulk blackmail personal. You'd never end up blackmailing enough people simultaneously to for it to be noticeable. It will probably be quite lucrative if there's anyone important on those lists.

    But the hackers are apparently not interested in a lucrative score. They want Ashley Madison shut down. They are blackmailing the company, not the individual clients.



  • @abarker said:

    @rad131304 said:
    The data's best use is blackmail, and it's hard to make a bulk blackmail personal. You'd never end up blackmailing enough people simultaneously to for it to be noticeable. It will probably be quite lucrative if there's anyone important on those lists.

    But the hackers are apparently not interested in a lucrative score. They want Ashley Madison shut down. They are blackmailing the company, not the individual clients.

    Because you can totally trust them not to also blackmail the actual users ... or sell the data.


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    @rad131304 said:

    Because you can totally trust them not to also blackmail the actual users ... or sell the data.

    Well, if they publicly release all the data, kind of hard to do the other stuff.



  • @abarker said:

    @rad131304 said:
    Because you can totally trust them not to also blackmail the actual users ... or sell the data.

    Well, if they publicly release all the data, kind of hard to do the other stuff.

    Ok, but how does the significant other get notified so that a divorce might get instigated? Unless somebody wants to, for the lolz, send bulk mailers to all the credit card addresses saying "congratulations on using ashley madison!", how does that information get used? A website up somewhere with the info does nothing if it never reaches the person's significant other.


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    @rad131304 said:

    Ok, but how does the significant other get notified so that a divorce might get instigated? Unless somebody wants to, for the lolz, send bulk mailers to all the credit card addresses saying "congratulations on using ashley madison!", how does that information get used? A website up somewhere with the info does nothing if it never reaches the person's significant other.

    In many marriages, one or both partners are insecure. Generally, when someone carries on an affair, the marriage continues until their partner finds evidence of the affair or the one having the affair decides to end the marriage. If this information becomes publicly available, suddenly those suspicious or insecure spouses have a place to look for definitive proof that their partner was cheating, and all it would take is a web search.


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    So here’s the the lesson for anyone creating accounts on websites: always assume the presence of your account is discoverable. It doesn’t take a data breach, sites will frequently tell you either directly or implicitly.



  • @abarker said:

    @rad131304 said:
    Ok, but how does the significant other get notified so that a divorce might get instigated? Unless somebody wants to, for the lolz, send bulk mailers to all the credit card addresses saying "congratulations on using ashley madison!", how does that information get used? A website up somewhere with the info does nothing if it never reaches the person's significant other.

    In many marriages, one or both partners are insecure. Generally, when someone carries on an affair, the marriage continues until their partner finds evidence of the affair or the one having the affair decides to end the marriage. If this information becomes publicly available, suddenly those suspicious or insecure spouses have a place to look for definitive proof that their partner was cheating, and all it would take is a web search.

    I disagree with your characterization of how most partners feel in a marriage, though I have no facts or studies to back my position on the topic.



  • @rad131304 said:

    Ok, but how does the significant other get notified so that a divorce might get instigated? Unless somebody wants to, for the lolz, send bulk mailers to all the credit card addresses saying "congratulations on using ashley madison!", how does that information get used? A website up somewhere with the info does nothing if it never reaches the person's significant other.

    Or search their spouses name in google. Not that unlikely. Some people navigate to facebook that way, i'm (almost) certain.



  • @swayde said:

    Some people navigate to facebook that way, i'm (almost) certain.

    Almost certain? ALMOST certain? Stop with the unnecessary weasel words, that's 100% certain.



  • @swayde said:

    @rad131304 said:
    Ok, but how does the significant other get notified so that a divorce might get instigated? Unless somebody wants to, for the lolz, send bulk mailers to all the credit card addresses saying "congratulations on using ashley madison!", how does that information get used? A website up somewhere with the info does nothing if it never reaches the person's significant other.

    Or search their spouses name in google. Not that unlikely. Some people navigate to facebook that way, i'm (almost) certain.

    I'm not up on worldwide anti-doxing laws enough to know how much trouble Google, et. al. could get in for linking to any site listing the information. I assume the answer is currently "not much" or "none" but that's just a SWAG on my part given how I know US law works in general.

    Edit:

    And even then, you're looking for the intersection of people who cheated using ashley madison, and have a significant other tech illiterate enough to perform a search against their significant other's name in order to get to facebook. Given total pool of ashley madison users was like 40M, how large do you really think the resulting intersection is?

    The theft itself probably instigated more divorce proceedings than the leak of the data would. Just check browser history.



  • Apparently they were upset about the site charging $19 to remove all your info but not actually deleting it. So maybe this is former users who really want their information to go away?



  • @riking said:

    Stop with the unnecessary weasel words, that's 100% certain.

    With all the pendants and blakey around, i'd be forced to provide proof if /weasel/ was omitted, and proof i have not.



  • @boomzilla said:

    So maybe this is former users who really want their information to go away?

    Hey! it'd be funny as shit if they don't have the info, and that's their main goal !
    conspiracy intensifies



  • Krebs says it looks like former employees: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/07/online-cheating-site-ashleymadison-hacked/

    In a long manifesto posted alongside the stolen ALM data, The Impact Team said it decided to publish the information in response to alleged lies ALM told its customers about a service that allows members to completely erase their profile information for a $19 fee.

    According to the hackers, although the “full delete” feature that Ashley Madison advertises promises “removal of site usage history and personally identifiable information from the site,” users’ purchase details — including real name and address — aren’t actually scrubbed.

    “Full Delete netted ALM $1.7mm in revenue in 2014. It’s also a complete lie,” the hacking group wrote. “Users almost always pay with credit card; their purchase details are not removed as promised, and include real name and address, which is of course the most important information the users want removed.”



  • On the flip side. How many people will "confess" in order to mitigate the potential loss of [spoiler]genitalia[/spoiler]?

    /me gets :popcorn: to wait for the red faces when this all blows over and the data don't get released


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    @rad131304 said:

    The data's best use is blackmail, and it's hard to make a bulk blackmail personal.

    Hmm, why not?

    "Greetings {person.name}, this is an automated message from the people who hacked AshleyMadison. We have evidence that you cheated on your spouse. This evidence will be published in exactly 1 month on our website, PeopleWhoHadAccountsOnAshleyMadison.com.ru, unless you send $100 worth of bitcoin to the address {bitcoin_address} before."

    Not as scary as a customized message could be, but would still rack in quite a bit of money.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    That's clever. You can do pretty much anything you want to your clients, and they'll never sue you because it's nearly impossible to do without your partner finding out.



  • @riking said:

    “Full Delete netted ALM $1.7mm in revenue in 2014. It’s also a complete lie,” the hacking group wrote. “Users almost always pay with credit card; their purchase details are not removed as promised, and include real name and address, which is of course the most important information the users want removed.”

    Well, yeah! How long do credit card companies by contract require the merchant to maintain proof of records in case of a dispute? Hmm? So how could they be expected to delete it?

    Hopefully this stops their spams from coming into my inbox past the filters every day.

    Next targets:
    Walk-in bathtub ads
    Vacation packages (pick your country of the week - hmm, they changed from Greece to Italy, wonder why?)
    NOTICE: Your background records may have been...
    GNC Sex Drive Booster!
    Heart Attack Warning!
    Rachael Ray Summer Figure
    ...

    (Love the Heart Attack Warning between the sex drive booster and Rachael Ray emails...)/sarcasm

    @anonymous234 said:

    "Greetings {person.name}, this is an automated message from the people who hacked AshleyMadison. We have evidence that you cheated on your spouse. This evidence will be published in exactly 1 month on our website, PeopleWhoHadAccountsOnAshleyMadison.com.ru, unless you send $100 worth of bitcoin to the address {bitcoin_address} before."

    Not as scary as a customized message could be, but would still rack in quite a bit of money.

    +1



  • I find this slightly hilarious considering it's only the second time I've ever heard of that website and the first time was a little less than a week ago. Some jackass registered an account on Ashley Madison with my email address. I had them send me a password reset email, changed his password, and then went to the account deletion page but by golly if they don't want me to pay for that. Fuck that. So I just put bogus info in all the profile fields and permanently hid the profile from search (that's the free account "delete" option).



  • @anonymous234 said:

    @rad131304 said:
    The data's best use is blackmail, and it's hard to make a bulk blackmail personal.

    Hmm, why not?

    "Greetings {person.name}, this is an automated message from the people who hacked AshleyMadison. We have evidence that you cheated on your spouse. This evidence will be published in exactly 1 month on our website, PeopleWhoHadAccountsOnAshleyMadison.com.ru, unless you send $100 worth of bitcoin to the address {bitcoin_address} before."

    Not as scary as a customized message could be, but would still rack in quite a bit of money.

    Their significant other would still need to check that new site which could get taken down at any time by law enforcement, so it's not that much different from their significant other just signing up for ashley madison and searching.

    Besides, I'd bet some not-insignificant portion of the accounts are scammers or prostitutes, making blackmail useless.


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    @rad131304 said:

    so it's not that much different from their significant other just signing up for ashley madison and searching.

    Do you know how dating sites work? You don't advertise your real name, makes that technique very difficult.



  • @abarker said:

    Do you know how dating sites work?

    Sounds like you do.


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    @boomzilla said:

    @abarker said:
    Do you know how dating sites work?

    Sounds like you do.

    I tried years ago, and my BIL had profile more recently.



  • At that point, just release the list.

    It will shut down all of the clients of the website.
    Down goes the website.
    The point is to stop cheaters from organizing.
    That does that as well.

    The only thing they are doing is protecting cheaters at this point.

    Just release the list.



  • @xaade said:

    protecting cheaterspeople

    This is fine by me.
    Most people have vices, some people have accepting/joining spouses. I see no reason to expose people to colleagues/bosses/etc.



  • But you harm that person's partner by protecting them.

    If they want to stay together afterwards, then let them.

    But until the partner knows, they aren't really consenting to the relationship.



  • @xaade said:

    really consenting to the relationship.

    Bullshit.

    @xaade said:

    But you harm that person's partner by protecting them.

    No. No. I think i know what you mean. I disagree.


  • mod

    @swayde said:

    @xaade said:
    really consenting to the relationship.

    Bullshit.

    @xaade said:

    But you harm that person's partner by protecting them.

    No. No. I think i know what you mean. I disagree.

    You are each talking about different scenarios. @swayde appears to be concerned with those who are having extra-marital relationships with the consent and knowledge of their spouse and doesn't want them outed to their friends and acquaintances. I believe that @xaade understands this is what @swayde is getting at, but is more concerned with those who are having affairs without the knowledge of their spouses. These individuals may be putting their spouses at risk for STIs.



  • @abarker said:

    These individuals may be putting their spouses at risk for STIs

    If ALL of the members did something provably bad, i wouldn't mind.
    I don't think than more than say 50% of people using these sites are cheaters. I think it's just at likely they use dating sites with a false name. Being outed in this correlation DOES have a negative effect.
    I'd like to see the list tho - there's got to be some funny shit there.

    @abarker said:

    consent and knowledge of their spouse

    Or just singles using the service. Being outed as cheaters might damage them regardless of truth.

    IMO releasing the data as a deterrent to future sites makes much more sense. Do what you promise, or face the possible consequences/legal aftermath. Why were these profiles not deleted completely as promised ?


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    @swayde said:

    I don't think than more than say 50% of people using these sites are cheaters. I think it's just at likely they use dating sites with a false name. Being outed in this correlation DOES have a negative effect. I'd like to see the list tho - there's got to be some funny shit there.

    We're talking about a site specifically marketed toward people who want to have an affair. While they probably have members who are single, I bet your 50% estimation is very low.

    @swayde said:

    Or just singles using the service. Being outed as cheaters might damage them regardless of truth.

    You apparently overestimate people. Having a history of cheating limits your prospects, yes, but doesn't eliminate them. My dad is engaged to the woman he had an affair with when he was married to my mom, and she wasn't the first. That's not an uncommon story.

    @swayde said:

    Why were these profiles not deleted completely as promised ?

    According to the article, the fee for the full delete was often paid for by credit card. Credit card agreements require vendors to keep records of the transactions on hand for a given length of time in case of disputes. It sounds like enough information was kept on hand to identify the individual in case of a transaction dispute.



  • @abarker said:

    It sounds like enough information was kept on hand to identify the individual in case of a transaction dispute.

    I'm interpreting this quote as all of the data remains:

    all the customers’ secret sexual fantasies and matching credit card transactions ... Too bad for ALM, you promised secrecy but didn’t deliver
    But i may be mistaken.

  • mod

    @swayde said:

    @abarker said:
    It sounds like enough information was kept on hand to identify the individual in case of a transaction dispute.

    I'm interpreting this quote as all of the data remains:

    all the customers’ secret sexual fantasies and matching credit card transactions ... Too bad for ALM, you promised secrecy but didn’t deliver
    But i may be mistaken.

    Yeah, maybe if you went for a quote that was relevant to the Full Delete service (from the article linked in the OP):

    @CNN Money said:

    The hackers -- or hacker, perhaps -- appear to be upset over the company's "full delete" service, which promises to completely erase a user's profile, and all associated data, for a $19 fee.

    "Full Delete netted [Avid Life Media] $1.7 million in revenue in 2014. It's also a complete lie," the hackers were quoted as saying in a manifesto published by Krebs. "Users almost always pay with credit card; their purchase details are not removed as promised, and include real names and address, which is of course the most important information the users want removed."



  • Seems i was mistaken.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    It seems to me there's no reason at all to tell your name or address to anyone from that site. Even the people you meet. "Hi, I'm Batman McTitties, let's have an affair, meet me in the park at 10".

    But of course, credit cards ruined everything once again by being the most stupid, terrible, piece of shit to ever exist. Because let's just give our full names and addresses and phones to everyone we want to interact with, yay.


  • :belt_onion:

    you dont even need the real email addresses. just spam that to everyone.
    i predict a new spam scam in 3... 2... 1......


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @loose said:

    On the flip side. How many people will "confess" in order to mitigate the potential loss of genitalia?

    If not confessing causes you to run the risk of loss of genitalia, confessing may not actually help.



  • Ok. Scenario 1:
    Q. What's all this about you being on this dating site?
    A. Ummm......

    Scenario 2:
    Hi honey, dou you remember that time we had a big row? Well, I got so mad I signed up on this dating site and then changed my mind. I thought I deleted the account, but apparently they screwed up........

    CBA to figure out the mark down shit, so. Vote 1 or 2



  • @abarker said:

    Do you know how dating sites work?

    You give them money and then send messages to members of the opposite sex, where around 1/10 or 1/20 of messages sent actually get a response and lead to a conversation, and about 1/10 of those conversations lead to an actual first date?



  • @abarker said:

    @rad131304 said:
    so it's not that much different from their significant other just signing up for ashley madison and searching.

    Do you know how dating sites work? You don't advertise your real name, makes that technique very difficult.

    Proximity and a semi-accurate description are the important items that facilitate a successful meeting not involving a direct pay-for-sex transaction. I, personally, would assume everyone on that site is lying about their name. If you sign up to look for your significant other, searching where they usually are and looking for pictures or physical descriptions of them probably is a far better way to go looking for them.



  • @Groaner said:

    send messages to members of the opposite requested sex

    Looks like you never visited a gay dating site ...

    No I haven't either ... I object!

    Ok, that one time .. but that was a joke ... we where looking at our manager's profile! common! who would pass on an opportunity to see his gay manager ...
    In hindsight, it was a bad idea ...



  • @Luhmann said:

    opportunity to see his gay manager

    Male or female?



  • @loose said:

    Male

    Male ... and about the same age.
    I once saw one of his personal mail address while he was project something. I made a joke about it because the meeting was boring. After the meeting we googled the mail address and found the profile minutes before he removed it or hid it but not before one of the colleagues had some screen caps.



  • @riking said:

    @swayde said:
    Some people navigate to facebook that way, i'm (almost) certain.

    Almost certain? ALMOST certain? Stop with the unnecessary weasel words, that's 100% certain.

    My father navigates to Google that way, by typing 'Google' in the quick search bar (set to Google) on his browser.


  • Notification Spam Recipient


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @loose said:

    CBA to figure out the mark down shit, so. Vote 1 or 2

    2 obviously, but that there aren't any guarantees is my point.

    @Groaner said:

    You give them money and then send messages to members of the opposite sex, where around 1/10 or 1/20 of messages sent actually get a response and lead to a conversation, and about 1/10 of those conversations lead to an actual first date?

    The two most popular sites are free with extra fees for advanced features (AKA freemium). Other than that, your assessment is correct, at least from the male perspective.



  • Scenario 1 with a response that your computer got a virus and did lots of weird things, signing up to sites, blah, blah.
    Common problem.
    Only go into more detail if needed.

    You people need more practice at lying if you are going to be visiting dating sites for cheating.



  • Do you give lessons? Specifically for scenario 1?


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