"Sleep" is a relative term, apparently



  • ...so I just put my Win10 machine (laptop) to sleep, a few minutes ago, by pressing the power button. Except I realized that's not what's happening, when it kept buzzing for about 3 minutes with the screen off. I had plenty of time to imagine photoshop hardclosing, its "do you want to save changes?" dialogue silently ignored by the system, then the same for Fireworks, Unity, 3 notepad instances with various notes, 2 chrome windows with about 15 tabs...

    So then I started it again, and sure enough, full start. Went to power settings, checked that yes, all the "action things" (closing the lid, pressing the sleep button, pressing the power button, on battery or external power) were set to "sleep" or "do nothing".

    And yes, usually it does behave according to the settings (which is probably much worse than if it never behaved like that), but it seems that Win10 is of the opinion that if it silently downloaded some updates in the background, without informing you whatsoever, then "fuck you and your 4 hours of work, I need to restart so I'll just shut down".

    "Nice"...
    ("It's a dev preview/beta/whatever, you moron."
    "So what?")



  • That's ok, you can just press undo right?



  • Move along, nothing to see. No :WTF: here. Windows Update SOP, and it probably reset all your "personalisation" settings.

    I feel for you I really do. Windows will reboot after an update unless you tell it (the "I will reboot in 10 min" prompt) not to. As for sleeping: it's not sleeping it's just resting it's eyes. :)



  • DISCOURSE!



  • I can't even interpret that jumble of words.

    What's the WTF?


  • SockDev

    @loose said:

    Windows will reboot after an update unless you tell it (the "I will reboot in 10 min" prompt) not to.

    since windows 8 you don't get that choice. the prompt is now "i'mma gonna reboot in fifteen minutes and that's final. save your shit or suck it up and grow a pair like a big boy."



  • That's what net stop "windows update" (or the services GUI) is for.


  • SockDev

    -_-

    noooooo..... that's not what that's for. that'f for getting your computer out of ate and inviting all the viruses to come over and play



  • Oookaaaay. That could explain a lot. For example: I have been running a couple of realtime simulation games for the last 40 days on my 8.1 machine. Sometimes I cant sweep to the game, I have to switch to them via task manager. Sometimes they reload. So I am beginning to think they are restarting and restoring to last state, like a very advanced hibernate



  • When putting a Windows 10 computer into Sleep, sometimes instead it will do a hard, forced shutdown to install updates (like Joel's "b'bai" button). Any unsaved changes in apps not registered with Restart Manager are lost, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to happen when you say "Sleep".



  • So this is definitely a windows 10 :WTF: Let's hope it's a Feature that don't make the cut.


  • :belt_onion:

    since windows ever i tell it to only install updates when I tell it to, so it never auto installs or reboots on its own....

    problem. solved.



  • @darkmatter said:

    reboots on its own.

    Except for the rare blue screen, or when my local electrical utility decides to take a nap.

    Filed under: I really need to replace my bad UPS.



  • yeah, i do that too, but I figured that it's a dev preview, so i might as well let them update it as often as they feel the need to. as soon as it's just a regular win10 the first thing i'm doing is exactly that, setting "always ask if i want to install any updates".



  • oh, hi there, I wouldn't expect this thread to be worthy of your... whatever it is :smiley:
    And it surprised me even more to see your comment when I realized you basically just admitted to not be able to read a text of about high-school level of complexity :smiley:



  • @loose said:

    Oookaaaay. That could explain a lot. For example: I have been running a couple of realtime simulation games for the last 40 days on my 8.1 machine. Sometimes I cant sweep to the game, I have to switch to them via task manager. Sometimes they reload. So I am beginning to think they are restarting and restoring to last state, like a very advanced hibernate

    ...ooookayyy, this comment only raises questions for me...
    "i can't sweep to the game" - so it's a "modern UI" (metro) game? okay, but...
    it's a realtime simulation game at the same time as being done in metro UI? what is it? i want to at least google it

    also, "sometimes they reload", and you assume it means the restart - not necessarily, afaik (standard) metro apps are suspended at the moment they're hidden (with the obvious exceptions of those which have permission to run in background), and ...hell, it's easier with a picture:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-51-31-metablogapi/1563.app_2D00_lifecycle_5F00_018E5A34.png

    When the app is hidden, it gets suspended. From there on, it's purely OSes decision whether and for how long will it keep the app in suspended state, or it will terminate it. So you switching out from metro app could mean that app being "suspended" for years (if you keep your pc on), or getting terminated right away, and re-launched when you switch back to it.



  • to some M$'s credit, at least Live Writer noticed, and even offered to restore the unsaved post.
    ...and even did it succesfully!



  • Written by a high-schooler != readable by a high-schooler (unless it's the same one both times).



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I can't even interpret that jumble of words.

    What's the WTF?

    You need to learn English.



  • @EvanED said:

    That's what net stop "windows update" (or the services GUI) is for.

    Don't worry, they'll probably disable that ability in a few updates. Evergreen all the computers!



  • Strangely enough, I've never run into that issue.

    Maybe because I noticed the "If you don't reboot your device inside of two days we'll do it for you" notification?


  • SockDev

    @Rhywden said:

    Maybe because I noticed the "If you don't reboot your device inside of two days we'll do it for you" notification?

    try ignoring that notification one of these days. ;-)



  • Right. Because ignoring notifications announcing an impending forced reboot and then whining about said forced reboot actually happening is such an intelligent way to do it.


  • SockDev

    or not. ;-)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @darkmatter said:

    since windows ever i tell it to only install updates when I tell it to, so it never auto installs or reboots on its own....

    Except for when it does.

    @PJH said:

    @Zemm said:
    Isn't that the Mac equivalent of a BSOD?

    Sounds more like Windows Update that insists on rebooting after auto-updates if you don't acknowledge the "Reboot now/later?" dialog. Even after you've told it to stop fucking doing it.


  • I survived the hour long Uno hand

    Isn't that exactly what Android does? Wait... why would I want that on my desktop?



  • @darkmatter said:

    since windows ever i tell it to only install updates when I tell it to

    I've got it set to download automatically but don't install unless prompted. That changes the shutdown option to 'install updated and shut down', which works for me as I don't hibernate this machine. I don't know what it does to sleep though, might be similar shenanigans.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @accalia said:

    try ignoring that notification one of these days

    Why don't all you people stop ignoring it? That's solve your damn problem, right there.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Why don't all you people stop ignoring it? That's solve your damn problem, right there.

    "I've had that chest pain for two days now. Should I do something about it? Naww, it'll pass."


  • :belt_onion:

    @Rhywden said:

    "I've had that chest pain for two days now. Should I do something about it? Naww, it'll pass."

    Tried that once, it didn't work. On the 3rd or 4th day I started coughing up blood so I went to the ER.



  • @Buddy said:

    Written by a high-schooler != readable by a high-schooler (unless it's the same one both times).

    yeah, well, we all know USA's education system has some pretty serious problems, don't we? :smiley:



  • @Yamikuronue said:

    Isn't that exactly what Android does?

    don't know, I'm avoiding thinking about and working with that specific eldritch monster as much as I can.

    @Yamikuronue said:

    Wait... why would I want that on my desktop?

    exactly.
    but, you know, all the intended metro multi-platformness and shit.



  • That your thoughtless, stream-of-consciousness writing style is a perfect reminder of.



  • nice, finally a good shot-down, better than blakey's, in fact! :thumbsup:



  • I'm no hero, I'm just doing my job.



  • I've never seen any problems with rebooting or crashing with my 2009 iMac (funny you quoted me there) but it has developed a weird thing where if you manually put it to sleep (Apple menu > Sleep) it will sleep for a few seconds and come back to life. Letting it sleep "naturally" works properly. Doesn't matter what software or hardware is in use.

    But the updates procedure is quite polite. One of the options is "try tonight" which asks for your confirmation password immediately and it installs the updates after you stop using the machine that evening. I've found this works well for my workflow.

    I've posted a screen shot of windows (8.1) rudely asking me to install updates by placing a full screen app over the desktop. This was when the RTC had a hiccup and it thought it hadn't installed updates for 8300 years so it was quite urgent.



  • @Zemm said:

    it thought it hadn't installed updates for 8300 years so it was quite urgent.

    If you haven't updated for 8300 years, waiting until this evening probably isn't going to make much difference. :)


  • BINNED

    You obviously haven't heard about that new 3031510 day exploit



  • i think I might've diagnosed the issue better, lately.
    The laptop I was talking about is ProBook 4730s, which is and always was a great machine, with one slight problem:
    Two GPUs, builtin intel and external (or onboard, or how do you call it) AMD.

    And... the AMD drivers... the SPECIAL HP FLAVOR of these AMD drivers, which is the only one that works at least so-so, are complete shit. and the Catalyst Control Center is even more shitty.

    So I resorted to just installing the drivers, ignoring CCC, and when I need to be sure about which card currently does the rendering, i just go to device manager and disable the other one.

    It seems this removes the "sleep" option, as the "hardware change" makes the system think it needs to restart.
    Usually I re-enable the card later within the same session, getting the pc back to what it remembers as its "current default state", so the "sleep" option returns.
    However, sometimes i forget to re-enable the card, and then when i try to put it to sleep using the power button, that's when the unnanounced restart/power off happens.



  • The biggest problem I've ever had was with a former work laptop. I'd put it to sleep, put it in my bag, and go home. It took a while to figure out why it would sometimes cold-boot the next time I used it, and occasionally I would find it awake and very hot when I took it out of the bag.

    If the battery happened to be low, and I happened not to use it or plug it in at home, even in sleep mode the battery voltage would eventually to the point where it would try to go into hibernate. However, it can't go directly from sleep to hibernate, it has to wake up first before hibernating. It turns out there was one application I usually had running1 that prevented it from going into hibernate. It would detect the low battery voltage, wake up, try to hibernate, fail, and sit in my laptop bag in full active mode (overheating because no ventilation) until the battery went flat.

    1It's been a few years, so I don't remember for certain what it was. It was either Excel with a document from a network drive open, or it was a little Java desktop application I wrote. I think it was the latter, and the problem with Excel was something else, but I definitely remember Excel giving me some kind of problem with powering up and down.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Wow... that's... an interesting workflow. I'm not sure if I can think of an easier way, but that might be TRWTF here.......


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    How does something prevent hibernate mode from happening? I've never seen that happen before......


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @sloosecannon said:

    How does something prevent hibernate mode from happening?

    It's probably forcing some bit of hardware into a may-not-hibernate state. Which is just dumb as hell.



  • You early adopters have superheroic patience from my perspective.



  • @sloosecannon said:

    How does something prevent hibernate mode from happening? I've never seen that happen before.
    I don't know. I've never seen it happen since, either, but when I got in the habit of closing that particular application before putting the laptop to sleep, the problem went away.



  • @Shoreline said:

    You early adopters have superheroic patience from my perspective.

    ...wasn't entirely voluntary... i migrated from win7 do 8 because i had to, to be able to dev and deploy apps to win8 phones. then i migrated to 8.1 to be able to dev and deploy to WP8.1 + W8.1 (metro universal apps).
    then I found out win8.1 is kinda shittier than 8, performance-wise, after some months of use, which was about the time when win10 dev preview went out, so I was like "can't go back to 8 because dev reasons, let's try 10, and in the worst case i'll go back to 8.1, at least it'll be a fresh install running nicely, for a while".

    so i installed 10, and... yeah, has some issues, naturally (i've seen someone ranting about the start menu being a separate app, therefore sometimes it doesn't open, or it takes a while, i agree with that), but overall it runs about 20-30% faster than 8.1, and I mean the whole lifetime curve, fresh 10 install was 20-30% faster than fresh 8.1, and now after about half a year of usage, it's still 20-30% faster than 8.1 was after half a year of usage.

    (yeah, best solution would be to get better laptop, no money for that, I'm a poor indie living in a semi-developed country (1.5th world :smiley: ), so poor I don't even have my own basement, just a room in an apartment :smiley: )

    EDIT: Also, with win10 is the first time Dark Souls is able to run on its full framerate on this PC, if I give its process Realtime Priority, so FUCK NO I'M NOT CHANGING MY OS IN ANY DIRECTION AT LEAST UNTIL I'VE FINALLY BEATEN THE GAME!!! :smile:



  • @sh_code said:

    ... yeah, best solution would be to get better laptop...

    I get it, I'm not made of money either, except when I wear my money suit.

    Does the windows 10 start menu (and other apps) cover the entire screen like we've regressed in usability still, or have they realised that I might want to look at the help pages while looking at the start menu like I could between about 95 and 7?


  • BINNED

    @Shoreline said:

    Does the windows 10 start menu (and other apps) cover the entire screen

    No, Metro apps can be windowed and for the start menu you can choose tablet (start screen) or desktop (start menu) style


  • Fake News

    @sloosecannon said:

    How does something prevent hibernate mode from happening? I've never seen that happen before......

    Applications can tell Windows that it shouldn't go to standby (take a media player or backup software).

    It's possible that said app included it as a "bonus feature".


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