OUR FAVORITE KOREAN CORPORATION and Windows Update



  • They do not mix.

    On my home forum Sysnative, a user (wavly) was being assisted with a WU issue, which was going well, aside from the fact that wavly's WU kept getting disabled randomly. It was figured out eventually after using auditpol.exe and registry security auditing that the program that was responsible for disabling WU was Disable_Windowsupdate.exe, which is part of Samsung's SW Update software.

    SW Update is your typical OEM updating software that will update your Samsung drivers, the bloatware that came on your Samsung machine, etc. The only difference between other OEM updating software is, Samsung's disables WU.

    What's the motive?

    Rep: When you enable Windows updates, it will install the Default Drivers for all the hardware no laptop which may or may not work. For example if there is USB 3.0 on laptop, the ports may not work with the installation of updates. So to prevent this, SW Update tool will prevent the Windows updates.

    Oh well obviously disabling Windows Update entirely is the correct solution to this vexing problem.


  • sockdevs

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh well obviously disabling Windows Update entirely is the correct solution to this vexing problem.

    Oh FFS, rather then i don't know..... actually pushing working drivers to windows updates you nuke the security of the machine‽

    no wonder i don't buy samsung anymore....



  • Why are their products incompatible with the default drivers?

    My MMO mouse works with the default drivers. It's just the advanced features that don't work. But the mouse itself still moves the cursor and supports all standard features.


  • sockdevs

    @xaade said:

    Why are their products incompatible with the default drivers?

    because Samsung has to be a special snowflake so they tweak their firmware so that things don';t work if you don't use their drivers and then they don't put their drivers in windows update because special snowflake.... grrrrrrr


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @xaade said:

    Why are their products incompatible with the default drivers?

    My money's on “incompetent fuckwits”…



  • So, sign your dlls, and if the default driver is in use, use an built in adapter?

    There's nothing saying you can't, also, provide the default interface.


  • sockdevs

    @xaade said:

    So, sign your dlls, and if the default driver is in use, use an built in adapter?

    There's nothing saying you can't, also, provide the default interface.

    what part of special snowflake don't you get?

    they want you to use THEIR drivers and all other drivers are broken and should be burned and if you dare use them your computer will break because it's our hardware and we know best!

    ARGLE BLARGLE FLARGLE WIB WOB BLURK!



  • @accalia said:

    ARGLE BLARGLE FLARGLE WIB WOB BLURK!

    That's racist.
    Their language doesn't sound like that at all.


    But I wonder if this is anything like a certain company that decided that the default interface of a micro USB wasn't good enough for their charge cable.


  • sockdevs

    @xaade said:

    Their language doesn't sound like that at all.

    -_-

    사실은 내가 충분히 알고 있습니다.

    나는 사실 한국을 모방하려고 시도되지 않았습니다



  • I see ideas like that every day there, so nothing new. But don't worry - they will surely hack a workaround to this problem soon. Something in the lines of sniffing update data and dropping packets wouldn't surprise me at all.


  • area_deu

    False and wrong. MTP works just fine without installing any Samsung malware.
    For me that's all I need.


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    Hardware makers and shitty drivers must be the cause of like 50% of all computer problems.

    It seems like no matter how much you try to standardize the software-hardware interface, they still manage to fuck it up somehow.


  • sockdevs

    @aliceif said:

    False and wrong. MTP works just fine without installing any Samsung malware.

    only because they havent figured out how to criple that to force you into their ecosystem while still claiming to support the standard i am sure.




  • area_deu

    Oh wait, this is about Samsung PCs, not their phones.

    Huh.



  • @aliceif said:

    Oh wait, this is about Samsung PCs, not their phones.

    Huh.

    Well, on their phones it's less of a problem, since it's them who are (not) providing updates in the first place.


  • sockdevs

    @aliceif said:

    Oh wait, this is about Samsung PCs, not their phones.

    their phones are pretty messed up too....


  • Notification Spam Recipient

    Everyone always links to this comic, but I don't think it's true.

    A good standard can indeed, usually, cover everything the other ones do and be simple to implement. In fact I'd say that what generally happens is you have a few "bad standards", developed early in the game by companies for internal use, or not incorporating newer concepts, and after some time someone finally releases the "15nth standard" that actually works.

    In practice, the reason why it seems so hard to get this to happen in some areas is simply that companies don't want to.

    Take the example in the comic: instant messaging. It's one of the simplest things in the world: connect to another machine and send text strings, and we indeed have a good (enough) standard for it: XMPP. But do companies like Microsoft want to implement it in Skype? Of course not. Same for phone A/C chargers, etc.


    This is going to sound a bit weird, but the world of computer standards has always fascinated me. There's so many things at play: game theory, backwards compatibility, forward compatibility, extensibility, corporate vs personal interests... I wish "standardology" was a real field.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    But do companies like Microsoft want to implement it in Skype? Of course not.
    They did, for a while, for federation with Google, when Talk was still Talk, and for federation with Facebook before Facebook cut that off, and...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    I am disappointed that wasn't a translation of your wahrgarbling.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    I am disappointed that wasn't a translation of your wahrgarbling.

    insanity is universal. no translation mecessary.

    (also google translate refused to translate it)



  • @accalia said:

    insanity is universal.

    Somewhere a madgod is jumping rope with a colon and smiles.


  • sockdevs

    @accalia said:

    insanity is universal

    Hey! I'm not insane!

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch some old QI penguin…



  • I'll just load up Oblivion and trance in cheeseland.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    I wish "standardology" was a real field.

    It is now.


    My fascination is with Sovereignty, e.g.:



  • @xaade said:

    My MMO mouse works with the default drivers. It's just the advanced features that don't work. But the mouse itself still moves the cursor and supports all standard features.

    And even that's just because windows' default driver ignores everything beyond 5 buttons and a wheel. I've got a mouse with extra buttons, and linux uses them by default.

    Which puts us to the reason the windows driver will probably never be updated: the cyborg rat uses 3 buttons to implement a mode switch, so you're always dragging with 1 of those 3 high-numbered buttons, requiring them to be ignored.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    A good standard can indeed, usually, cover everything the other ones do and be simple to implement. In fact I'd say that what generally happens is you have a few "bad standards", developed early in the game by companies for internal use, or not incorporating newer concepts, and after some time someone finally releases the "15nth standard" that actually works.

    Right; like the OpenGL process. Where new features stay as vendor extensions for FUCKING EVER until the OpenGL goon squad decides to standardize them, in the meantime (decade) people actually writing software have to just cope with writing that code 3 times (once for AMD's version, once for NVidia's version, once for drivers that don't implement either.) The OpenGL process sucks ass.

    @anonymous234 said:

    Take the example in the comic: instant messaging. It's one of the simplest things in the world: connect to another machine and send text strings, and we indeed have a good (enough) standard for it: XMPP.

    XMPP isn't nearly good enough. It doesn't support jack shit.

    @anonymous234 said:

    But do companies like Microsoft want to implement it in Skype? Of course not.

    Why would they? They'd either have to cripple Skype to support only what XMPP supports, or create a "second tier" of contact who can't do jack because they're not a Skype contact, or through some miracle try to get everybody else shipping XMPP to commit to supporting all the additional features in the same way they do.

    Where's the incentive? What would Microsoft gain?



  • Well, the $250 for WHQL testing so that their drivers could be distributed through Microsoft channels probably is too steep a fee.

    Then again, they'd probably have problems actually passing the tests for WHQL.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    XMPP isn't nearly good enough. It doesn't support jack shit.
    Text messages, HTML messages, vCards, file transfers, conferences, presence, and multiple points of presence, federated across organizations and standardized among multiple clients, servers, and components. Then Google added better file transfers, video, voice, and mail notifications, which most clients picked up on. Aside from animated Zwinky emoticon malware, what's missing?@blakeyrat said:
    or create a "second tier" of contact who can't do jack because they're not a Skype contact,
    This is what Microsoft ended up doing. They did the same for out -of-date {MSN | Windows | Windows Live} Messenger clients.@blakeyrat said:
    or through some miracle try to get everybody else shipping XMPP to commit to supporting all the additional features in the same way they do.
    Worked for Google.@blakeyrat said:
    Where's the incentive? What would Microsoft gain?
    Interoperability so it's more convenient for customers, then parasitism so people get all the shiny features, then finally lockout so people are "forced" to switch. Only now it'd be external against other companies rather than merely internal against older versions of their own product.



  • @TwelveBaud said:

    Interoperability so it's more convenient for customers, then parasitism so people get all the shiny features, then finally lockout so people are "forced" to switch. Only now it'd be external against other companies rather than merely internal against older versions of their own product.

    A.K.A. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish?



  • Exactly!



  • Samsung phones are pretty amazing, really. Once you take out their bloatware and install Cyanogen.



  • @Maciejasjmj said:

    Samsung phones are pretty amazing, really. Once you take out their bloatware and install Cyanogen.

    The bloatware is the product. You're buying shit then going way out of your way to make it slightly-less-shit.

    The solution here is to not buy shit in the first place.


  • sockdevs

    @blakeyrat said:

    The solution here is to not buy shit in the first place.

    i agree with the rat on this one. even if the phone/tablet/tv is nice buying it with that crapware then removing the cdungware is no different to the corporation than using the shitware. thus by buying it you are encouraging them to make more pooware. and that is a very bad thing. we already have enough excretaware.


  • mod

    @accalia said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    The solution here is to not buy shit in the first place.

    i agree with the rat on this one. even if the phone/tablet/tv is nice buying it with that crapware then removing the cdungware is no different to the corporation than using the shitware. thus by buying it you are encouraging them to make more pooware. and that is a very bad thing. we already have enough excretaware.

    Hence the reason I haven't bought any Samsung devices in (what seems like) years. I've only ever purchased 2: a Galaxy S3 for my wife a while back (recently replaced with an LG) and a Galaxy Tab 4 for the kids. After all the bloatware on those, I intend to avoid Samsung like the plague.



  • I've never bought a Samsung device simply because... well it's never come up. But after this and the Enlightment thread and all the shit, Samsung now joins Sony on my SHITLIST.

    If my SHITLIST grows too much larger, it might get hard to buy a TV.



  • I find the carrier bloatware more annoying.
    I'm not even using this app that takes up like half of my internal memory.
    But instead I have to install 3rd party, to do the stuff right.
    And the carrier won't let me delete their crap.

    At least have a default version that's just a stub. I don't mind the icon being there, I mind the space you're taking up.



  • @xaade said:

    I find the carrier bloatware more annoying.

    One of the reasons I liked Windows Phone over Android: carriers can't remove the ability to uninstall software (as far as I'm aware).

    So you still get the bloatware AT&T thinks is so goddamned necessary, but nothing stops you from just pressing it and selecting "remove" and it's gone forever along with all its background battery-sucking processes.

    It's possible that's not a thing Microsoft did, but. Still. Windows Phone was the first smartphone I had where I could remove that shit.



  • @xaade said:

    At least have a default version that's just a stub. I don't mind the icon being there, I mind the space you're taking up.

    And how do you propose they push you to buy the more expensive, higher capacity version, if they don't occupy all the space in the base version?



  • By that argument, just don't make phones.
    Then I'll really demand someone to make phones.
    Then they can make phones.



  • @Rhywden said:

    Well, the $250 for WHQL testing so that their drivers could be distributed through Microsoft channels probably is too steep a fee.

    As of January, 2014 there is no longer any charge for WHQL, so Samsung's only excuse there is that it's too steep at free.



  • The same also applies to some (though not all) of Microsoft's own apps.

    AT&T TV and Radio? Buh-bye.
    Lumia Photo Studio? See ya.
    Help and Support? That's what the Internet (or 6-1-1 if I feel like waiting forever) is for. Gone.



  • Right; AFAIK you can remove pretty much everything except Settings and the Store. If not everything entirely.

    That said, it still ships with the MS Maps application, which you can still enable with a "hack" app from the Store. Despite Nokia replacing it with HERE Maps. Weird. So removing that one app only removes the icon, somehow.

    I ended up just using HERE Maps even though it's more annoying, it works pretty well once you deal with the roughly 3472463248726 modal dialogs it presents on first-run.


  • sockdevs

    You can't remove things like Alarms, Calendar, and Calculator either. But then that's all really basic stuff that doesn't take up much space anyway.



  • Yeah I was playing with my phone, there's actually quite a few you can't remove including (surprisingly because it's such a niche feature) FM Radio.

    Oh well. Since I've never tried to remove any of those it's not bothering me.



  • Because they don't want to risk 'WTF THIS IS UNUSABLE!!!!1', the beta for 10 includes all of the old ones alongside the new ones, which has made me almost care enough to try.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    there's actually quite a few you can't remove including (surprisingly because it's such a niche feature) FM Radio.

    Actually, a couple of years ago the radio broadcast industry got in some kind of copyright or royalty fight with the music industry, and bizarrely, the outcome was essentially "all new phones have to have an FM radio in them". Since the hardware's there, it'd be fairly stupid to let you delete the app.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    bizarrely, the outcome was essentially "all new phones have to have an FM radio in them".

    :wtf::question: In what world is that a sensible outcome?



  • @RaceProUK said:

    In what world is that a sensible outcome?

    In a world where the text of a law doesn't matter any more if you want it not to matter badly enough?



  • @xaade said:

    Why are their products incompatible with the default drivers?

    Do you remember those cheapily cheap copy-cat USB chipsets that brick when the official driver is applied?
    Have you looked at Samsung's prices?


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